What's your energy drink? (Page 2)

We are on the exact same page then.

It made for a decent discussion though.

Edited by ssyba 2004-01-09 5:49 AM

One consideration I would add to the recovery drink is the ability to recover faster. In tri training, we are training a lot and we need to recover as fast as possible. So if you goal is to increase endurance and/or speed, then a recovery drink would be very beneficial. This would even apply with weight loss. You may burn more cals not having a post rec drink, but how much will that be offset by not being able to train as well on your next workout?

As far as during long workouts, another consideration is to do them the same as race conditions. If you will not have gels or sports drink during race, then don't have them in training. Definitely don't start using them on race day either. See what works best for you. I know that my first 10mile run last year was a disaster. I felt horrible. I did it again a month later with GU and finished strong. Of course I also had an extra month of training too. I have read a number of article about replenishing carbs during long workouts. Basically , you can't replenish them as fast as you are using them (even if consume them because body can't process them fast enough), so you will still get some of the fat burning conditioning even with carb consumption during long workouts. You halso have to be careful about burning muscle. At some point, you will start burning muscle when run out of fuel. This is what got me started on the gels. I was smelling ammonia after my long runs and was told it is muscle breaking down. This went away after the gels.

So, I am not saying you should add carb/protein consumption during and/or after workout no matter what, but if you goal is to improve performance, it will make a noticeable difference

Where can you get the GU or Gels? I have heard a lot about them and would like to try them especially since I am doing 1/2 marathon in May.

Just about anywhere. When I run out, I go to running store or Sports Authority. Otherwise, buy by box online since cheaper. (I just Google search for price each time since different places seem to have cheaper prices each time.

cameronw ... you make a very good point about protein. Burning muscle for fuel is extremelly undesireable. But, the body will readily do this, and quite easily. Ingest some protein and the body will use the ingested protein to make sugars (glucoeneogenesis ... as I said in another thread), rather than the protein obtained by breaking down muscle.

Cameronw, I saw you mentioned "heavy squats" in another thread, which tells me you're a lifter (or have been one in the past). "heavy squats" is not aphrase that just rolls off the tongue of someone who simply "work out". I mention this because you likely have a better understanding of protein's importance than the common endurance athlete.

I'll briefly explain the science of this for those interested. Your body stores sugars (glucose) in the muscles in the form of glycogen (plants store sugars as startch, we use glycogen). During exercise our muscles are depleted of glycogen and the body must find an alternative energy source .... "fat burning", to put it simply ... or it can break down muscle to use protein to construct sugars (mentioned above). The latter will likely occur when speed work is extended past the point where glycogen stores are depleted and the aerboc energy system is not activated.

So, at the end of a workout your muscles have no glycogen in them (pretend with me for a minute). That glycogen will be replaced by "ingested sugars" or by breaking down muscle. supplement companies frequently bring up the "opportunity window" which is suppossedly up to 30 minutes after training. I'm not saying this isn't optimal, I'm just saying if I eat a good meal an hour after training, my muscles aren't going to say "sorry, too late, you missed the time window, we don't want your glucose now".

Your body will replenish itself with food. If you want to enhance the process with a post-workout drink, then by all means go ahead. As others have pointed out, it is beneficial ... but not a requirement. It all dpends on how much you're willing to spend. We could literally get down to finding a supplement that *needed* to be taken for every situation ... pre-workout drink, post-workout drink, drink in between solid feedings, etc. You could end up ingesting more supplements than food (many folks do this).

My main point was the when long, slow (base) training, athletes should let their bodies get better at providing energy in the aerobic state, rather than from getting quick energy from ingesting fast-abosrbing high glycemic drinks/gels, or glucose polymers ("Smarties").

For optimization, a post-workout drink should be followed with a well balanced meal (carbs:fat:protein) 1-2 hours after the PW drinks.

Sorry for the *yawn* *Yawn* stuff ... but this is what i like.

FWIW, I usually drink a myoplex (habit from my lifting days) and 1 liter of water (don't drink while training), followed by a healthy helping of pasta, veggies and meat ... or steak and potatoes and hour or two after that.

Edited by TripleThreat 2004-01-09 10:15 AM

TripleThreat,

I share your interest and curiosity on the subject. It is going to be an interesting journey this year as I learn about the differences of nutrition theory between what I have learned over the last year (from a weight lifting crowd viewpoint) and endurance training and racing nutrition.

Last year I researched ketogenic diets and did a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD) for a 6 week period. For those unaware, a CKD is basically a no-carb diet for 5 days and then a carb binge fest for 2 days every week.


TT, I was wondering if endurance Athletes ever train their bodies to better adapt to the switch over to a ketogenic state that occurs in a long race through diet manipulation during the training season. i.e. as I was doing the CKD, my body eventually got used to switching over from a non-ketogenic state (burning glycogen for energy) to a ketogenic state (burning ketones for energy) and vice versa. Do triathlon athletes ever reduce carbs to a point where they force their bodies into an (earlier than usual) ketogenic state?

Don't worry about long posts, I love this stuff (I'm an engineer). I have lifted weights off and on for years with more orgaized training the last two years. Then I got tired of all my muscles "hiding" under the fat :-) So I dropped a lot of weight, but don't want to lose all the hard earned muscle. So for me, a big goal is to not lose muscle while dropping last 10-15lbs, so protein is important. During my first BFL challenge, I lost 3lbs of muscle the first 4 weeks and had to increase protein to gain. Now I watch it to maintain especially with all the cardio!

And you are right about supplements. At one point I found myself using Creatine, N02 (Arginine), protein powders, ZMA, L-glutamine, myoplex shakes, fish oils, vitamins, glucosamine, fat burner (probably even left something out). When it ran out I quit buying it other than viatmins, fish oil (for lubrication for bad left wrist and EFA benefits) and myoplex shakes for when didn't bring enough food to work. I now use Endurox R4 after longer (or hard) training sessions. Once I dropped the supplements, the only one I noticed a real difference was N02 which was too expensive anyways and for muscle gain, not tri training. I try to use as much real, whole food as possible and have had same basic results.

I hope I don't sound like I am disagreeing with you. On my rworkouts < 1 hour, I only bring water on Fuel Belt. Once I go over 90mins, I use GU or Power Gel. We go through this constantly on the BFL forum about different things work for different people. Just don't go broke inthe process :-)

I studied CKD for quite a while (Lyle McDonald's stuff). I tried it for about 6 weeks, but just didn't do wel on it. I lost weight, the foods were fine (with the exception of a double shot of oil down the gullet to induce ketosis), but I had zero energy. My body never did get used to it. My workouts were those of a zombie.

I seem to be one of those people that "needs some carbs". I don't eat many processed or white carbs. If I do, then it's because I want to.

The CKD seems to be optimal for those that "have a good amount ot lose", whereas for really active people, I don't know that it is optimal? (notice I said optimal).

FWIW Here's a little article related to this topic:
http://worldofendurance.com/triathlon/beginners_column.asp?a_id=885...
JD

I take packets of honey on my runs/rides. I've looked at several different gels and what I basically need is the sugar (diabetic) on long runs/rides. The other stuff, I can get from foods during my normal eating. I've also filled a gel container with Log Cabiin syrup! Much cheaper and less calories. I agree with Triple Threat about the companies promoting nutrition needs to sell their products.

For recovery, I usually drink a Slim Fast shake. About 200 calories, 40 carbs, 13 protein and lots of vitamins. Much cheaper. If I've kept my sugar level during a run/ride (I have a blood testing kit), then I don't need all the carbs in the recovery drinks. Try it

Janice,

I just wanted to note that I see the comment often, 'Slim Fast, syrup, etc... is much cheaper than XYZ.' For starters, you mention using Slim Fast as a recovery formula. Slim-Fast is a far cry from a product like Endurox R4 (for example), but lets just say for argument's sake that they're the same thing. A can of Slim-Fast is about $1 - $1.25 (+/-) /200 calorie can. A serving of R4 is about $1.05 (per 280 calories). I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm getting ready for my 1st Sprint Triathlon or trying to PR in Kona, why would I spend $.20 MORE /serving on a product that's not intended to meet the needs of an athlete. Lets even say that they're the same price or that the R4 is even slightly more expensive, why would we spend more on our morning cup of joe from Starbucks, than we would on something which could help us recover faster, be stronger and more prepared for our upcoming event? It's just something that always confuses me that we spend so much time preparing for events, hours and hours each week, and that some athletes will risk having their great race to save a few pennies.

All I can tell you is that if I sincerely thought Log Cabin was going to get me to the finish line a second faster, I'd have a case of it in my closet. The truth is that it's not the same thing, not even close. Anyway, just my $02 - have a good weekend!

-Brian Shea (not a Slim Fast user, but Kona qualifier )

I never would've thought of Slim Fast as a recovery drink but one of my teammates turned me on to that for my nutrition/calories on the bike when one of my cranial nerves stopped working (the one that works the muscles of chewing, among other things) and now have a hard time chewing. Power Harvest bars used to be the food of choice. I use the powder mixed with soy milk and add a PowerGel for the carbs to offset the extra protein from the soy milk. As far as recovery, nothing has worked better for me than Endurox that I've tried so far.

Sharon

Has anyone tried this product? I'd be curious to hear some feedback. I've been thinking about giving it a try.

Dan