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2007-03-01 2:51 PM

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Subject: Naturopath Anyone
Has anyone out there been to see a Naturopath?

Having struggled with back pain for several years, I have seen doctors, RMTs, PTs, Chiro, ART people, Acupuncture... I have tried xrays, CT Scans and MRIs... all to no avail of fixing or finding anything. Although I do have some relief with Pain Killers, nothing makes the pain go away.

Since I have been training, I have had muscle cramping in my lower half (legs, hips, feet etc). My back still has its usual flareups. In fact, I just took 2 weeks off from training (more lazy than anything... but I still feel sore... Like I might have done a huge workout just yesterday).

Today my RMT (I have seen her off and on for about 5 years) recommended I see a naturopath. It is one of the few routes I have not gone. I certainly respect her opinion, although I have no idea what to expect from a naturopath. I am envisioning crystals and lava lamps and some kind of chakra re-alignment. (No sarcasm intended... if I thought crystals would work... I would use them).

Can someone bring me a little more in line with what is really going to happen at a Naturopath?

The RMT suggested "Live Blood Tests" anyone know what that means?

I would really appreciate hearing about anyone's experiences.


2007-03-01 5:24 PM
in reply to: #708093

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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

I've never seen a nuturopath myself but I know many people who have had many great things to say about them. Most of my friends experiences were based on changing their health though diet. If you see lava lamps and a they try to find your chakra's run!

A live blood test is when someone pokes your finger takes some blood looks at it under a microscope and try's to tell you what is wrong with you. Seems like BS to me. 1) why is this person qualified to look at your blood, 2) Can you really see anything useful, 3) what may look strange to them could be red blood cells clumped together, or parhaps they weren't handing it properly, 4) What would this have to do with your back. This just totally seems like a hoax to me for those and so many more reasons. I should say that I've never had one done. My guess is that they would also try to sell you some type of supplement after and I never trust someone who income is doing a test on me and selling me something as a result of that test.

EDIT: apparently pri.cks is a banned word....



Edited by Global 2007-03-01 5:26 PM
2007-03-01 5:25 PM
in reply to: #708093

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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
Do you want an honest answer from an allopathic physician?
2007-03-01 5:43 PM
in reply to: #708304

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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

DerekL - 2007-03-01 3:25 PM Do you want an honest answer from an allopathic physician?

Not a big fan of naturopaths?  I know you well enough to know what you think about the Live Blood Test and I think that we can actually agree on that one  

2007-03-01 5:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

Not a big fan of people who practice such an important thing as medicine without the backing of research and actual science.  I have nothing against them personally.

Global - 2007-03-01 5:43 PM

DerekL - 2007-03-01 3:25 PM Do you want an honest answer from an allopathic physician?

Not a big fan of naturopaths?  I know you well enough to know what you think about the Live Blood Test and I think that we can actually agree on that one  

2007-03-01 6:19 PM
in reply to: #708340

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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
DerekL - 2007-03-01 3:56 PM

Not a big fan of people who practice such an important thing as medicine without the backing of research and actual science. I have nothing against them personally.

Global - 2007-03-01 5:43 PM

DerekL - 2007-03-01 3:25 PM Do you want an honest answer from an allopathic physician?

Not a big fan of naturopaths? I know you well enough to know what you think about the Live Blood Test and I think that we can actually agree on that one

I'm not sure what the naturopathic profession is like in TX but it seems highly unregulated.  In BC it seems like they are pretty much nutritionists who also do alergy tests, and study herbal remedies, but not much more then that. They do formal schooling here to become a naturopath and have to have meet certain provincial standards to be registared as a nautropath. 

I've personally never been to one.  I understand people being leary of a medication and really think some problems can be solved with diet rather then a pill, but people really do need to see an MD and not a natropath for anything serious.  My friends experience were all pretty much had to do with allergy testing and they found it useful. I'm not sure how a naturopath could help a back problem though.



2007-03-02 9:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
DerekL - 2007-03-01 5:25 PM

Do you want an honest answer from an allopathic physician?


Ok, so I had to look up Allopathic.

I would appreciate any honest answers from anyone. I am just tired of being sore all the time. It is extremely demotivating and depressing. Conventional medicine has yet to help me...

My current family physician is a big fan of drugs. He will not perscribe Physio, Chrio or Massage for that matter... if I want to do it, he doesn't care (although my pocket book does since I can't be covered without perscription for some of these)... but he will treat anything I present to him with drugs. He seems to be a big fan of Prednisone (for other conditions... not the back problem).

His treatment of my back involved an Xray... follwed by MRI... followed by, there's nothing MS wrong with you... here is a perscription for Celebrex. He also intimated that if I "train for triathlons, of course you will have muscle pain". Celebrex minimizes the pain... but someday when I am pregnant, this is not going to be an option anymore.

I have had standard blood testing for a 30 year old female. Apparently everything is great.

So is that it?

Incidentally, between your 2 posts, I think you have talked me out of the Naturo - route... I am skeptical... but I don't want to rule something out based on bias personal opinions.

2007-03-02 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
I only go to my family doc for a cold or serious condition that drags on for more than two weeks.  He is a big fan of drugs, but I can understand that, because in this world of law suits, he is just covering his arse.  However, for any muscular- skeletal pain or problems, I only go to my chiropractor.  It's simple, you must treat the cause or source of pain to make it go away.  Drugs only treat the symptoms.  BTW, I go to the chiropractor to get an adjustment and a.r.t. therapy 1x per week, so I can stay healthy.  I go to my family doc 1x per year, maybe!  The moral of this story:  Yes I believe in treating problems naturally(homeopathic), but at some point, prescription drugs and traditional western medicine practicing docs become necessary.
2007-03-02 10:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

TRIBMAC - 2007-03-02 8:24 AM I only go to my family doc for a cold or serious condition that drags on for more than two weeks. He is a big fan of drugs, but I can understand that, because in this world of law suits, he is just covering his arse. However, for any muscular- skeletal pain or problems, I only go to my chiropractor. It's simple, you must treat the cause or source of pain to make it go away. Drugs only treat the symptoms. BTW, I go to the chiropractor to get an adjustment and a.r.t. therapy 1x per week, so I can stay healthy. I go to my family doc 1x per year, maybe! The moral of this story: Yes I believe in treating problems naturally(homeopathic), but at some point, prescription drugs and traditional western medicine practicing docs become necessary.

I'm a big Chiro fan as well.  For back pain I would think if you aren't satisfied with your doc this is the way to go IF you find a good one.  Luckily my Chiro is a 40 yr old 2:40 marathoner and sub 10 hr Ironman finisher.  The man is amazing and me and the wife have nicknamed him Jesus because he is our miracle worker.  If you go to a Chiro see if you can find one that works at a sports medicine clinic.  They probably deal with more athletes and are more likely to be an athlete themselves.

 

2007-03-02 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

irondog - 2007-03-01 3:51 PM Has anyone out there been to see a Naturopath? Having struggled with back pain for several years, I have seen doctors, RMTs, PTs, Chiro, ART people, Acupuncture... I have tried xrays, CT Scans and MRIs... all to no avail of fixing or finding anything. Although I do have some relief with Pain Killers, nothing makes the pain go away. Since I have been training, I have had muscle cramping in my lower half (legs, hips, feet etc). My back still has its usual flareups. In fact, I just took 2 weeks off from training (more lazy than anything... but I still feel sore... Like I might have done a huge workout just yesterday). Today my RMT (I have seen her off and on for about 5 years) recommended I see a naturopath. It is one of the few routes I have not gone. I certainly respect her opinion, although I have no idea what to expect from a naturopath. I am envisioning crystals and lava lamps and some kind of chakra re-alignment. (No sarcasm intended... if I thought crystals would work... I would use them). Can someone bring me a little more in line with what is really going to happen at a Naturopath? The RMT suggested "Live Blood Tests" anyone know what that means? I would really appreciate hearing about anyone's experiences.

sorry to hear you've been battling a stubborn pain for so long. all kidding aside, no lava lamps at the naturopath's office i know. chakra alignment can be helpful in certain situations, i've had mine aligned with reiki and crystal bowl sound therapy. a qualified naturopathic doctor will most likely take a hair sample, sometime saliva and run some tests to determine any nturitional deficiencies, etc... where are you located? i can recommend one in NJ.

 

2007-03-02 5:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
I can feel my blood pressure rising.  Maybe I need to sit on a crystal of something before I go off on how I really feel about all this nonsense.


2007-03-02 6:41 PM
in reply to: #708093

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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

For what it's worth, I see a naturopath.

She doesn't tell me to take voodoo pills.  She doesn't do weird tests on me, other than those which an allopathic doctor would do (blood pressure, checking ear, nose, mouth etc).  She has no lava lamp in her office.

What she does is listen to what I am having issues with, and then she suggests changes within my diet and lifestyle.  Some are subtle, some are more major.  And most of her suggestions (around 95% of them) have yielded positive results for me. 

Are naturopaths for everyone?  No.  But for those of us who have become frustrated with traditional medicine, naturopaths are often a suitable alternative. 

Irondog, if you care to ask me further questions about my experiences, please feel free to PM me.  I don't really feel like airing out too much more about my medical preferences or history in public.



Edited by Vaiza 2007-03-02 6:42 PM
2007-03-02 11:04 PM
in reply to: #708880

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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
irondog - 2007-03-02 8:54 AM

DerekL - 2007-03-01 5:25 PM

Do you want an honest answer from an allopathic physician?


Ok, so I had to look up Allopathic.

I would appreciate any honest answers from anyone. I am just tired of being sore all the time. It is extremely demotivating and depressing. Conventional medicine has yet to help me...

My current family physician is a big fan of drugs. He will not perscribe Physio, Chrio or Massage for that matter... if I want to do it, he doesn't care (although my pocket book does since I can't be covered without perscription for some of these)... but he will treat anything I present to him with drugs. He seems to be a big fan of Prednisone (for other conditions... not the back problem).

His treatment of my back involved an Xray... follwed by MRI... followed by, there's nothing MS wrong with you... here is a perscription for Celebrex. He also intimated that if I "train for triathlons, of course you will have muscle pain". Celebrex minimizes the pain... but someday when I am pregnant, this is not going to be an option anymore.

I have had standard blood testing for a 30 year old female. Apparently everything is great.

So is that it?

Incidentally, between your 2 posts, I think you have talked me out of the Naturo - route... I am skeptical... but I don't want to rule something out based on bias personal opinions.



I don't think any allopathic trained physician will argue much that there is not a lot we can do for back pain as physicians. PT, massage, chiropractic, an osteopath who actually does adjustments...I've done all of these and find them all helpful to some degree in a variety of ways. Understanding teh possibilities of what may cause your pain can really help you to deal with it. Normal exam and imaging only tells you that there is no surgical or congenital problem causing yoru pain, and is probably 80% of teh people with back pain (I made that number up...not based on anything that I know to be factual, just random experience).

I dont' think a naturapath will help you as much as a physical modality.

There is also a book called "Healing Back Pain" by John Sarno that's an interesting read adn couldn't hurt to pick up at the library.
2007-03-02 11:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
DerekL - 2007-03-02 4:55 PM

I can feel my blood pressure rising. Maybe I need to sit on a crystal of something before I go off on how I really feel about all this nonsense.


Derek...have you checked yoru blood pressure at one of those wal-mart thingies? Does the cuff fit you? Maybe you should make some notes of your BP and take them to your doctor for review...

2007-03-03 12:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
not to stir the pot more, but i've talked at length with many healthcare practitioners of all types - my husband has a disc problem in the lower back. one practitioner suggested that the body sometimes stores negative energy in the lower back, resulting in pain. kind of along the lines of accupuncture, there are treatments that focus on releasing stored energy so that the muscles can relax and allow the spine to re-align. i think the form of chiropractic is called "networking".
2007-03-03 1:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

"networking" 

 I must have missed that class, while in Chiropractic School. 



2007-03-03 2:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
marymosc13 - 2007-03-03 11:37 AM

not to stir the pot more, but i've talked at length with many healthcare practitioners of all types - my husband has a disc problem in the lower back. one practitioner suggested that the body sometimes stores negative energy in the lower back, resulting in pain. kind of along the lines of accupuncture, there are treatments that focus on releasing stored energy so that the muscles can relax and allow the spine to re-align. i think the form of chiropractic is called "networking".


$9.95 will get you Sarno's book, which will help you "release" the negative energy without anyone's help. It didn't work for me, but it's still an interesting read.
2007-03-03 3:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
Damn all this physiology.
2007-03-04 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
Hmmm, all compelling points and posts. I know the source of back pain can be very... "untraceable" which is perhaps the most frustrating part of it all.

I can say that the two weeks I just bailed on training is leaving me even more incomfortable that before. Note to self... too much rest makes my back very cranky. I am currently sitting on one butt cheek because of the shooting pain I am getting.

Well, I definitely appreciate the input. I am honestly not convinced that the Naturopath route is the way for me yet ($$$ being one of the #1 downfalls). Besides the ART and Massage, I have not been to physio in a few years... nor have I had any xrays or scans done lately. Perhaps a visit to conventional doc is first in order in case he has any new ideas or advice for me.

My intention was not to raise anyone's blood pressure... just to hear other opinions on alternatives.

Thanks,
2007-03-04 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
i've had those kinds of shooting pains....it was always easily, easily fixed iwth a trip to the chiropractor. generally my SI joint or pelvis was out of alignment.
Chiros are great...I've had problems that I woudl go to physical therapy for months for with little result. I take the same problem to the chiro, and it's gone in a week.
2007-03-04 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone

Hey Irondog,

Sorry to hear about your back troubles...

Since you asked about the ND, I can tell you what I know, which isn't a lot.  At one point in my fiery idealistic youth I toured Bastyr College of Naturopathy.  In the state of Washington the scope of practice allowed NDs to perform a wide variety of services but most states do not allow NDs much scope of practice.  The curriculum at the time was a mish-mash of a lot of different styles of holistic practices - homeopathy, manual therapy, herbal remedies, and nutritional therapy.  I walked away with the thought that an ND may become a jack of all trades but the master of none.  I am not sure I would go to an ND at this time for the pursuit of a "natural remedy" even though I respect natural remedies as having therapeutic value in many cases.

If I wanted acupunture, I would go to an acupuncturist (someone with 2500 hours of acupuncture training) vs someone certified in acupuncture (varies from state to state.  In Virginia, someone certified in acupuncture must be a health care provider with 200 hours of additional training in acupuncture).  If I decided I wanted to try homeopathy, I would go to an actual homeopath (which is quite difficult to find in the US) vs someone who has taken a couple of classes.  

In terms of your back pain, what I would say about that is that physical problems generally respond to physical treatments.  A chemical problem (like diabetes) generally responds to chemical treatment (insulin).  If my back was hurting, I would continue to look for physical modalities that may help me.  Very often no structural problem is found (no findings on MRI or x-ray), which pretty much leaves the patient with the elusive and frustrating functional problem. 

I will also point out that 80% of folks who suffer from an incidence of serious low back pain in their lifetimes become chronic back pain sufferers.  Which means that you may be looking at a management situation vs. a curative situation.  That doesn't mean you will have pain all the time, but it does mean that you have to figure out your triggers, figure out what helps, and sometimes accept your limitations. 

You may end up finding a combination of chiropractic, physical therapy, massage, ergonomic changes, orthopedic supports and self-care. 

BamaDC, I think the form of chiropractic that was mentioned in this thread is known as "network chiropractic" which is a technique used by a very limited number chiropractors.  Google Network Spinal Analysis, and you can find it.  It isn't taught in chiropractic schools... it is relatively controversial.



2007-03-10 9:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
I'll let Derek handle the naturopaths while I crusade against chiropractic.

Those Wal-Mart cuffs don't fit my arm.
2007-03-11 9:01 AM
in reply to: #708093


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Subject: RE: Naturopath Anyone
Dear I feel like Im really going on about this (this makes 3 posts about it), but please please consider seeing a certified neuromuscular massage therapist (whatever your RMT might say). It'll cost around $100/hr but it can possibly help give a good idea of what's wrong with you.

I was once like you; I had horrible pains in my arms, hands, back, and hams that just would not go away. It was truly debilitating (my arms became paralyzed at one point) and I even had to take off work. I must have seen about 20 doctors, referred around, and the general consensus was that I probably had MS. !!!!!! So they did nerve conductivity tests, MRIs, X-rays galore, etc etc, kept me on painkillers, but no one could give me any advice how to STOP the pain from happening (or even what was CAUSING the pain in the first place), only how to TREAT it.

Then my Dad (of all people, a huge conservative) broke down and begged me to explore alternative routes, even acupuncture. My uncle happened to know of a neuromuscular massage therapist, so that's where I went first. And in one session - one session! - I was completely relieved of pain and given understanding why my body was hurting the way it was (chronic deep soft tissue issues - way too often overlooked as a source of pain and discomfort).

The point is, you have something wrong with you. You need to figure out what it is and stop it from recurring. You say you have muscular cramping, soreness like after a workout. That right there is what NMTs are definitely trained to address (again I know you are seeing an RMT but the entire schooling and certification is different - NMTs are the ones who help people "unlock" their jaws after lockjaw, you don't see your Swedish Massage Therapist at the gym able to help with that). Go see an NMT - they might be able to help your cramps and soreness. And if they CAN'T help you, then, well, the plus side is that you've completely ruled out a giant area (soft tissue issues) from which you have to search for an answer, and that at least is worth something. When it comes down to it, you might have joint issues or nutrition issues but you won't know till you keep eliminating possibilities.

Please please please don't give up trying to find out what is wrong. Life is NOT about "living with pain" or even "managing pain" (ugh!!!! - ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE ONLY 30 FREAKING YEARS OLD!!). That's for people who have GIVEN UP.

You CAN have a healthy, pain-free body. Keep searching for help!! Someone WILL be able to help you!!!!!
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