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2007-03-21 3:47 PM

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Subject: Pre-training for Ironman training
My major goal right now is to do an ironman summer 2008. While it will be my first I feel like having the fitness level I have right now combined with well over a year of preparation for it I can be competitive (my goal is under 10:30). My biggest issue is finding information on how to train well in advance of an ironman. I guess it would be unlikely to see a 50 week training plan but I like structure so I wish I could at least find some guidance in the ideal way to train.

So much of what I read is "how to finish" while very few articles are really about how to push your body over a long period to be able to finish with a fast time. Does anyone that has done Ironmans at an elite level have any books to look at or training plans/websites to look at, or even any experiences of their own on how they prepared for an ironman 15-16 months away...


2007-03-21 3:59 PM
in reply to: #732191

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
Sign up for some 1/2 Iron's and use those training plans...they'll put you in position to tackle an Ironman.

2007-03-21 4:14 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

jbillfsu - 2007-03-21 4:47 PM .......I feel like having the fitness level I have right now combined with well over a year of preparation for it I can be competitive (my goal is under 10:30).

Just curious, what level is that?  Fast marathoner (sub 3)?  Sub 1:00 for a 40k time?  How much are you currently training?

If you do not already have a solid base a year is a decent time to gain that.  But you are probably not going to drop 30 - 45 minutes in each discipline in that time unless you can train buckets and stay healthy.

As a reference, if you did an "average" 1:15 swim, had a 21+ mph ride for a sub 5:15 and could then run a 3:45 marathon that will still only get you just under 10:30 including transtitions and a little fudge factor.  If you are a strong cyclist and a strong marathoner than you can have an average "easy" swim and do it.  But just putting out a time without a conept of what is actually involved can set you up for failure.

I only say that because I was more than trained to break 5 in my HIM last year and because I didn't respect the distance and the swim kicked my azz my time was MUCH higher than that.

2007-03-21 4:17 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

Question:  It will be your first Ironman or your first tri?

Also, the closer I get to IM distances in each discipline in training the further away I realize I am from being able to race them.

 

2007-03-21 4:17 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
if Im already at the point what then? I dont want to just tackle an Ironman plan I want to train now to be able to train very hard next year with the goal of qualifying for Hawaii.

I guess Im just frustrated by all the plans that I read because most start with "well since your time is so limited we are leaving out this or that". I want the whole thing!! I have the time with my job so where is the year or longer plan that uses weight lifting "its not a time crunch for me" and gives me as many workouts as possible. (Im not trying to overtrain just train for my peak)

As far as current fitness I am not extremely fast at any but I have 2-3 years of good fitness foundation. I know conventional wisdom says I will get better with time, but the next two years my be the last two that I can realistically make Ironman training my major goal.



Edited by jbillfsu 2007-03-21 4:22 PM
2007-03-21 4:21 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Master
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
Spot on, Rick. 10h30 for your first IM is a HUGE goal. Hell, an IM period is huge. I'm set up for IMAZ in just about 3 weeks, and I'm praying that my 18-20+hrs/week are enough to take me sub 17.

For "elite" level training, I'd shoot a PM to bryancd, or check out the IMAZ training link:
http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...

Bryan posts his workouts regularly, and will give you a pretty good base idea of what the ramp up to IM with that kind of time in mind will be like.

Without your athletic history, experience, training/logs, time available, past races, etc...it's kinda tough to be more specific than that.

FWIW, I can give you a rundown of my experience. Again, I'm just hoping to officially finish. Been quasi race-specific training for pushing a year. I'm a swimmer by nature, and have picked up the other two in the last few years.
I have had a week that was <14 hrs. in recent (6 months) memory. It is, as you probably/hopefully know, an enormous committment. 15 months out wasn't quite as intense, as you can't really do too much race specific loading at that point. But just prep yourself for big volume in general, all the more so if you're out for a near Kona time.

Best of luck!


2007-03-21 4:21 PM
in reply to: #732191

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2007-03-21 4:22 PM
in reply to: #732244

Master
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
jbillfsu - 2007-03-21 4:17 PM
(Im not trying to overtrain just train for my peak)


I don't think you need to worry about training for your peak until early summer of 08.
2007-03-21 4:22 PM
in reply to: #732244

Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

Well, you cannot physically train for 15 - 18 months to peak.  The longest sessions out there are around 24 weeks or so, and those are very specific.  The thing to do between now and then would be heavy heavy base mileage.

And you didn't answer the question.  What is your actual level now?  We have no logs, race results, etc. to view so we're flying blind.

The real answer to your question is simple.  You have two options if the plans out there don't suit your dreams:

1. Make one yourself.

2. Get a coach.

2007-03-21 4:26 PM
in reply to: #732191

Master
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
Exactly. You're probably not going to find a pre-fab year and a half IM training plan. So I'd either (exactly as Rick said)
1. Get a coach
2. Make your own plan - Friel's training bible would help here.
2007-03-21 4:29 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
Looking at Penn State's logs (I use journals instead of BT logs, I just like putting it on paper for some reason) we would be in similar positions as far as fitness level. While I am totally humbled by the distance and undertaking of an Ironman I do feel like with proper training over the next 15-16 months and my solid fitness level now I can be competitive in an Ironman.

I just want it all, im a grad student and then will have a job for the next two years that lets me immerse myself in the training so Im ready for it....


2007-03-21 4:34 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
Rick and others, thanks for the insight. I think you kind of answered my overall question in saying to do lots and lots of base mileage. Most people say "well train for this other race or that race" but I feel like there has to be a better way to have one race as your goal and train for it.

I do understand the limits to advice not having my logs on the site but all the personal experience and ideas are helpful...
2007-03-21 4:35 PM
in reply to: #732259

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2007-03-21 5:08 PM
in reply to: #732191

Master
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
Go to Gordo's website and pay special attention to the Endurance Essentials and Ironman Training segments.

It may seem oversimplified, but there's no shortcut. Consistant training backed up day after day, week after week, month after month....equals results.

Good luck

scott
2007-03-21 5:57 PM
in reply to: #732191

Champion
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training
IM is a huge goal and without anything else to go on (especially logs and/or race results) it has hard to judge whether 10:30 is even in the realm of possibility.

As far as training for one that is more than a year away - you probably don't want to set a one race goal that is going to take a year or more to reach. Like others have said, use this year to focus on continuing to build fitness, take some time with a low training volume after the end of the season, and then return to building fitness. There is no reason that you cannot do this with your eye on an IM in 2008, but there is no good reason to start focusing on that now.

Provided you are trained to the point that it is realistic to complete a HIM this season, find a good HIM and look at completely a race or two at this distance. This will help you build your volume and fitness and after an off-season, will leave you in a good place to start your IM specific training.

You probably also want to do some reading into periodization theory if you are planning on working out your own plan - the Triathlete's Training Bible is a great starting point if you haven't already read that.

Best of luck,

Shane
2007-03-21 6:11 PM
in reply to: #732244

Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

jbillfsu - 2007-03-21 2:17 PM if Im already at the point what then? I dont want to just tackle an Ironman plan I want to train now to be able to train very hard next year with the goal of qualifying for Hawaii. l.

I wish you all the luck in the world, and don't know your AG or where you want to qualify, but a quick check of last year's results in various races shows a 10:30 won't get you to Kona for most younger male age groups.



2007-03-21 7:04 PM
in reply to: #732191

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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

IMO racing is WAY different than just training.  Things come up in races that just DON'T when you are training. 

If you want to do an IM in 2008 that's a great goal, but if you really want to hit 10:30 and actually race, the suggestion of doing a couple of half IM's this year would be CRITICAL I think.  Racing at those will be a really good tool to dial in what you're going to need to do at a full IM.

However well you've trained, however much mileage you've put in - throw a race day in there and it could all go south.  I wouldn't want to train for a year and half only to have it all go south cause I wasn't prepared for race day craziness. 

I'd also think the best bet for you would be to get a coach who could help you with your plan, but if that's not going to work, a good starting point might be one of the HIM plans on this site (at least to see how you do at that kind of volume before ramping it up for IM.)  If you want the strength training, just add some in there - the plans at Silver/Gold level pretty inclusive of everything you need as well as discussing some weekly strategy and what you should be focusing on.  A good way to start, and will give you background if you then decide to create your own plan.

Good luck!

2007-03-21 7:41 PM
in reply to: #732191

Giver
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

"Ride lots."

Good cycling legs (and lungs) will make or break you. 

2007-03-21 8:09 PM
in reply to: #732191

Coach
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Subject: RE: Pre-training for Ironman training

*I* would break down the time I’ll have between the day I want to kick off my IM training and my IM race. Then I would determine my training zones/paces and power through field test as a way to measure where my current fitness level is and how far away I am from my future goal. I would also determine my limiter(s) and focus on that for a big chunk of time (4-6 week cycles). I would make sure to add at least a couple of HIM in between; 1st to have a short term goal to look forward for, 2nd to incorporate long recovery periods (2-4 week of unstructured training) to avoid getting mentally burnt up and 3rd to gauge how close or not I am from my IM goal time. Finally I would work exclusively on building a solid aerobic base and use summer short distance races (Oly/sprints, 20/40K TT, 10K half marathon, OWS races, etc) as my intensity workouts and take my time building up to a considerable volume rotating my focus every month (i.e. one month swim, next bike, next run, etc) Of course you could get all this and just focus on training if you get a coach ;

We all have goals which drive us; but without a solid plan and objective benchmarks it will be a lot harder to accomplish it… Good luck!



Edited by amiine 2007-03-21 8:11 PM
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