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2007-04-06 4:09 PM
in reply to: #751875

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
FRom Wiki

"Probation is the suspension of a jail sentence - the criminal who is "on probation" has been convicted of a crime, but instead of serving jail time, has been found by the Court to be amenable to probation and will be returned to the community for a period in which they will have to abide to certain conditions set forth by the Court under the supervision of a probation officer. General conditions may include maintaining employment, abiding to a curfew, living where directed, abstaining from unlawful behavior, following the probation officer's orders and not absconding."

So according to that definition you are right the state has a right to tell them where to live. The problem comes in is if they say you can not live in a city or basicly only a few spots its hard for you to maintain employeement epsically if you are not suppose to be near school or anything. Plus how will they get money to live. Does the state pay for housing. Employeement is important since if someone is working they do not have the time to reoffend but if you end up sitting around with nothing to do then your more than likely to reoffent in my opinion. It is not an easy subject because honestly your damned it you do and your damned if you don't.

If they are no longer under probation then in theory though they should be able to live where they want too. Even though I honestly would not want them living next door. Like I said earlier its a tough thing to do. Not sure what the answer is.


2007-04-06 4:21 PM
in reply to: #751889

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

Todd:  It's total BS that a sex offender can't find housing that isn't within 1,00 feet of a school or park.   Dade county, the county which the report came out of includes the city of Miami and sorounding suburbs.  The notion that there are no housing for them that's within 1,000 feet of a designated area is rediculous.  The reporter should have looked into the background of those poor hopeless souls living under the bridge to see if they had ever worked a day in their life.  My guess, based upon experience, is these idiots are using the reporter to yet again manipulate people.And about finding employment, go figure that someone wouldn't want to hire a convicted sex offender.  They did it to themselves when they HAD SEX WITH A CHILD!!!!

Oh, and if your friend Joe was convicted in Illinois, where you're currently living, sex between a 19 year old and a 16 year old, as long as it was consensual, would qualify him for sexual offender status.  For that age descrepency to qualify there would have to be a family relationship, threat of the use of force, or some position of trust held. (I got this from a quick readong of the Illinois criminal code)

2007-04-06 4:51 PM
in reply to: #750408

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
you maybe right I do not know how compact your community is or how many schools there are. I have to assume you know what you are talking about. I can not see them having that many sschool but them again who knows.

I guess I do not care much about the underage laws because I do not talk to people under 18 or make friends with them. There is just too much crap going on in the world and not worth the risk. The last thing I want is someone to accuse me of something I did not do.

My a former coworker told me about his coaching clinic he had for coaching his son's basketball team had 1 big rule which is never be alone with one of the children. That is to protect you(the coach) as much as its to protect child.
2007-04-06 5:01 PM
in reply to: #750408

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Master
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

 The thing that really bothers me about this topic is that society addresses sex offenders as though they are these shadowy strangers who prey upon our childen.  The reality is that children are considerably more likely to be molested by someone they know, like a parent, sibling, or other family member, or a trusted neighbor than they are a random stranger.  Children are also more likely to be molsted inside of their own home, than they are at school or outdoors. 



Edited by betyoursilver 2007-04-06 5:08 PM
2007-04-06 5:04 PM
in reply to: #750573

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
Marvarnett - 2007-04-05 3:30 PM

 

If I commit a murder, serve my full sentance, then I should be able to live and do as I please.  Granted, if I'm on parole I have some constraits.  So if Sexual Predators serve their full sentances, should they not be able to do as they please.  Do city's have the right to put paramaters on other parole's other than sexual predators?

If they reoffend, then keep them in jail away from society and it's people.  I just don't see how it's "fair" if you've supposidly served your debt to society.  FAIR is a subjective word.



I ‘m not a lawyer, politician, psychologist, psychiatrist, or social worker nor am I an expert on sexual predators. What I am, is a father that fully supports any measure, or law that makes life as hard as possible on anyone convicted of being a sexual predator, especially when it has involved children.
I also feel it is perfectly acceptable for communities to determine whether or not they want these types of people among them. Call me paranoid, right-wing or whatever you want but I’ll be ****** if I want these people living beside me.
What sentence is sufficient enough to be considered served, or the debt to society paid for taking the innocence of a child? If they re-offend? Come on dude, are you willing to take that risk with them living beside you and your kids? I’m for one am not!
For those of you without kids that don’t share my view, wait until you have them.
For those of you with kids that don’t share my view, I’m sure they’ll be glad to know they're welcome in your neighborhood.
2007-04-06 5:08 PM
in reply to: #751013

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Master
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
tkbslc - 2007-04-05 9:17 PM

   I don't know what the answer is because I don't want them any where near my kids school or home either. 

 So, what do you do when a sex offender's children attend your child's school?  It's not like you can make his/her kids go elsewhere.  It's not like the SO wouldn't have business or a reason for being in the school, provided the school was aware of the SO's status as an SO, and the SO was strickly there for his/her kids. 



Edited by betyoursilver 2007-04-06 5:13 PM


2007-04-07 1:48 PM
in reply to: #751941

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
betyoursilver - 2007-04-06 6:08 PM
tkbslc - 2007-04-05 9:17 PM

   I don't know what the answer is because I don't want them any where near my kids school or home either. 

 So, what do you do when a sex offender's children attend your child's school?  It's not like you can make his/her kids go elsewhere.  It's not like the SO wouldn't have business or a reason for being in the school, provided the school was aware of the SO's status as an SO, and the SO was strickly there for his/her kids. 

In Florida, if he was on probation, he wouldn't be allowed to go to the school, for any reason.  No parent teacher conferences, no science fairs, no plays.  He would be precluded from going anywhere that children normally congregated.

If for some reason his probation allowed hime to do so, if he would be placed in contact with children then that contact would have to be approved by the sentencing court prior to the contact, and the parents of the children that he was having contact with would have to be informed of the nature of his conviction, prior to such contact.

2007-04-07 2:19 PM
in reply to: #750408

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

This whole thing really shines a light on the need for rehabilitation needs within the prisons. How much psychological help do sex offenders, murderers, abusers etc... get? Why is it that prisons become revolving doors? And then, ultimately, are some people incapable of rehabilitation in that they can be assimulated into society as a contributing, ethical, and upstanding member? And if they can be rehabilitated--is it not up to society as a whole to live and let live??? Or do we just build more prisons, increase taxes, and send criminals away forever? Or have the death penalty as standard practice? And where do we draw the line??

I did a search on some website a while ago to see where sex offenders lived in my city. Surprisingly, there were probably 15 people within a 3 mile radius. Is it fair that society knows this?

The world is messed up and there are no easy answers.

2007-04-07 3:55 PM
in reply to: #750408

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
Sex offenders suck.

I have a 12 year old daughter and I wouldn't want a freak anywhere near her.

With that said, in this country our justice system is an injustice system where money buys court decisions and mandatory sentencing is not helping many people who fall into the system and are unfairly and forever persecuted.

I have an acquaintance who got himself in trouble (iffy case at best; not with a minor) and he couldn't afford a defense. He did 9 years. He paid his debt to society... 6 years later never in trouble again, but struggling to find work, a place to live, a sense of self, etc. - he didn't register in time and now they are making it impossible for him to succeed with 8 new years of probation, he's not allowed to use a computer (not even for work, can not be near children, must be home between 6 pm and 6 am, no booze, drug tests and on and on...

The poor guy has paid his debt, stayed out of trouble, but I Googled his name and sure as sh*t he's on a sex offender's list. Now they are talking about special license plates for offenders... How about a bulls eye on their forehead instead!

I don't have answers, but as long as prisons are built for profit, the poor and defenseless will pay a larger price in terms of sentencing in this country. Rich people will buy freedom (if they get charged at all) and those who cannot afford a defense will end up filling up these new prisons.

Its a sham.

How about doing more to rehabilitate offenders (of all types)... Giving someone hope is better than throwing them out into a society that will not accept them, that ostracizes them, and guarantees recidivism.
2007-04-07 3:55 PM
in reply to: #752450

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
Is it fair that we know where these cretins live? For the safety of my kids, heck yeah!!!

You said we'll need to build more prisons and raise taxes? I don't think so. Trade the spots held by harmless drug abusers who have no record of violent crime with these animals/sex offenders. Rehabilitation doesn't work with these folks. See next paragraph:

BbMoozer said, "is it not up to society as a whole to live and let live???"

I recommend we heed the words of Sir Paul McCartney sung passionately by the man in my avatar, one W. Axl Rose..."Live and Let Die."
2007-04-07 7:21 PM
in reply to: #752490

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

DickDime - 2007-04-07 4:55 PM Sex offenders suck. I have a 12 year old daughter and I wouldn't want a freak anywhere near her. With that said, in this country our justice system is an injustice system where money buys court decisions and mandatory sentencing is not helping many people who fall into the system and are unfairly and forever persecuted. I have an acquaintance who got himself in trouble (iffy case at best; not with a minor) and he couldn't afford a defense. He did 9 years. He paid his debt to society... 6 years later never in trouble again, but struggling to find work, a place to live, a sense of self, etc. - he didn't register in time and now they are making it impossible for him to succeed with 8 new years of probation, he's not allowed to use a computer (not even for work, can not be near children, must be home between 6 pm and 6 am, no booze, drug tests and on and on... The poor guy has paid his debt, stayed out of trouble, but I Googled his name and sure as sh*t he's on a sex offender's list. Now they are talking about special license plates for offenders... How about a bulls eye on their forehead instead! I don't have answers, but as long as prisons are built for profit, the poor and defenseless will pay a larger price in terms of sentencing in this country. Rich people will buy freedom (if they get charged at all) and those who cannot afford a defense will end up filling up these new prisons. Its a sham. How about doing more to rehabilitate offenders (of all types)... Giving someone hope is better than throwing them out into a society that will not accept them, that ostracizes them, and guarantees recidivism.

 

You said it...he's far from innocent..HE didn't register in time.  When a sex offender is in prison they are instructed on the registration requirements.  They are also told that a failure to register is a violation of the law and can result in the person being sent back to prison.  No one did anything to your friend.  He knew the ramifications of failing to register...HE failed to register.  Ask yourself this...What was soooooo important that he couldn't get his butt down to the DMV or the local sheriff's office and register.  Too busy doing what?  If you were facing another prison term, wouldn't you maybe make it a priority to get yout butt in to register.  No this isn't societies fault, it's your friends.  HE failed to register...he broke the law...he reaps the consequences.



Edited by ASA22 2007-04-07 7:30 PM


2007-04-07 7:29 PM
in reply to: #752450

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
BbMoozer - 2007-04-07 3:19 PM

This whole thing really shines a light on the need for rehabilitation needs within the prisons. How much psychological help do sex offenders, murderers, abusers etc... get? Why is it that prisons become revolving doors? And then, ultimately, are some people incapable of rehabilitation in that they can be assimulated into society as a contributing, ethical, and upstanding member? And if they can be rehabilitated--is it not up to society as a whole to live and let live??? Or do we just build more prisons, increase taxes, and send criminals away forever? Or have the death penalty as standard practice? And where do we draw the line??

I did a search on some website a while ago to see where sex offenders lived in my city. Surprisingly, there were probably 15 people within a 3 mile radius. Is it fair that society knows this?

The world is messed up and there are no easy answers.

The problem is youre lumping sex offenders in with other criminals.  That's your first mistake.  The overwhelming majority of these guys suffer from a preference for having sex with children.  Statistically between 70-85% will re-offend.

And contrary to what has been asserted on this thread, the majority of sex offenders are not the 19-20 year old guy having sex with his 15-16 year old girlfriend.  The overwhelming, vast majority of sex offenders are the men who systematically, groom, and abuse children over a number of years.  Most have multiple victims.  The average age of their victims is for female victims age 12 and male victims age 13.  These men are dangerous.  For forcing an 8 year old to perform oral sex, for having vaginal intercourse with an 8 year old, for anally penetrating an 8 year old they will never have paid their debt to society.

And YES as a society not only is it just to know where they are, it is needed.

2007-04-07 7:37 PM
in reply to: #752490

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

DickDime - 2007-04-07 4:55 PM  I don't have answers, but as long as prisons are built for profit, the poor and defenseless will pay a larger price in terms of sentencing in this country. Rich people will buy freedom (if they get charged at all) and those who cannot afford a defense will end up filling up these new prisons. Its a sham. How about doing more to rehabilitate offenders (of all types)... Giving someone hope is better than throwing them out into a society that will not accept them, that ostracizes them, and guarantees recidivism.

OH...and your statement that rich people "buy freedom" is offensive to the hard working men and women in law enforcement.  It necessarily iplies that somehow we work less diligently, or are less prepared, or are less capable to prosecute cases when our opponent is a wealthy high priced private attorney.  It's total garbage.  Some of the best trial lawyers I have ever come across are public defenders.  And some of the worst, ill prepared, are the high priced stuffed suits.  Talk about profit. 

High priced attorneys hate trials,  Every day they are out of the office they are losing money.  It's time they can't meet with new clients.  A public defender gets paid regardless of if the case goes to trial or pleas.   Not to mention that a publiuc defender can actually spend more money on a case than a private attorney.  The costs of a criminal trial for a private attorney are borne by the client.  That means if the client can't afford an expert they don't get one.  Compare that to a PD client,  they can almost spend unlimited funds as the State is paying for everything.  They have the same limits that the prosecution has. 

 

2007-04-07 7:44 PM
in reply to: #750408

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
I just found out that the guy that lives upstairs from me is a sex offender. When I talked to my land lady about it she told me the whole story of what happened to him. My girlfriend is REAL glad we have a 100 lb pit bull mix now. He's never bothered us but she's still a little weirded out by the whole thing. That said I have a very hard time accepting the fact that they let some of those people back into the general population to begin with. There are certian cases that it would be tough to justify kicking them out of the state/city but repeat offenders should get a second looking at. If global warming works out there's always Antartica.
2007-04-08 9:40 AM
in reply to: #750714

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
NightOwl - 2007-04-05 6:26 PM

coachese - 2007-04-05 2:47 PM I thought they all got sent to Pedo-phisland?

No, they got sent to Clark County Washington...they're all around me. Undecided Very scary! A level 3 child molester lives within a mile of my house.Yell



A mile, that's nothing, I can see the house of one from my master bedroom window. Fortunatly, there is a lake, field, stream and hill to keep them away, which should be far enough to discourage them to come over, or at least far enough to take a good aim with the .270 ;-)
2007-04-09 10:07 AM
in reply to: #750408

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

someone pointed out that I was pretty sloppy in my mentioning of statistics and they were correct.  When I was refering to the rate at which sex offenders re-offend, I was referring to those individuals that victimized children under the age of 13.

I didn't intend to mislead, it was just sloppy writting on my part.  I'm not sure what the re-offending rate for all sex offenders is.



2007-04-09 11:11 AM
in reply to: #752433

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Master
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
ASA22 - 2007-04-07 11:48 AM

betyoursilver - 2007-04-06 6:08 PM
tkbslc - 2007-04-05 9:17 PM

   I don't know what the answer is because I don't want them any where near my kids school or home either. 

 So, what do you do when a sex offender's children attend your child's school?  It's not like you can make his/her kids go elsewhere.  It's not like the SO wouldn't have business or a reason for being in the school, provided the school was aware of the SO's status as an SO, and the SO was strickly there for his/her kids. 

In Florida, if he was on probation, he wouldn't be allowed to go to the school, for any reason.  No parent teacher conferences, no science fairs, no plays.  He would be precluded from going anywhere that children normally congregated.

If for some reason his probation allowed hime to do so, if he would be placed in contact with children then that contact would have to be approved by the sentencing court prior to the contact, and the parents of the children that he was having contact with would have to be informed of the nature of his conviction, prior to such contact.



This rule assumes that all sex offenders are child predators, which is not the case. regardless, I doubt a school could force a sex offender's children to attend school elsewhere. And, so what do you expect the sex offender's kids to do - not have friends?

Edited by betyoursilver 2007-04-09 11:25 AM
2007-04-09 11:56 AM
in reply to: #753771

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
betyoursilver - 2007-04-09 12:11 PM
ASA22 - 2007-04-07 11:48 AM
betyoursilver - 2007-04-06 6:08 PM
tkbslc - 2007-04-05 9:17 PM

   I don't know what the answer is because I don't want them any where near my kids school or home either. 

 So, what do you do when a sex offender's children attend your child's school?  It's not like you can make his/her kids go elsewhere.  It's not like the SO wouldn't have business or a reason for being in the school, provided the school was aware of the SO's status as an SO, and the SO was strickly there for his/her kids. 

In Florida, if he was on probation, he wouldn't be allowed to go to the school, for any reason.  No parent teacher conferences, no science fairs, no plays.  He would be precluded from going anywhere that children normally congregated.

If for some reason his probation allowed hime to do so, if he would be placed in contact with children then that contact would have to be approved by the sentencing court prior to the contact, and the parents of the children that he was having contact with would have to be informed of the nature of his conviction, prior to such contact.

This rule assumes that all sex offenders are child predators, which is not the case. regardless, I doubt a school could force a sex offender's children to attend school elsewhere. And, so what do you expect the sex offender's kids to do - not have friends?

To the contrary.  The rule only presumes that a person has been convicted of a sex offense against a child and as such because of the high risk of re-offending for that crime, we are going to preclude all sex offenders from having contact with children. 

You're right, not all sex offenders are child predators.  Likewise not all sex offenders are pedophiles, and similarly not all pedophiles are sex offenders.  But how do you determine which is which?  So the only workable manner to ensure the safety of society is to have a blanket rule.

And regarding the school issue.  The children of a sex offender can have all the friends they want in the school.  They can go to school, play with other kids, go to camps, go to little league....the sex offender just can't go there.

2007-04-09 8:31 PM
in reply to: #753868

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Master
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
ASA22 - 2007-04-09 9:56 AM

betyoursilver - 2007-04-09 12:11 PM
ASA22 - 2007-04-07 11:48 AM
betyoursilver - 2007-04-06 6:08 PM
tkbslc - 2007-04-05 9:17 PM

   I don't know what the answer is because I don't want them any where near my kids school or home either. 

 So, what do you do when a sex offender's children attend your child's school?  It's not like you can make his/her kids go elsewhere.  It's not like the SO wouldn't have business or a reason for being in the school, provided the school was aware of the SO's status as an SO, and the SO was strickly there for his/her kids. 

In Florida, if he was on probation, he wouldn't be allowed to go to the school, for any reason.  No parent teacher conferences, no science fairs, no plays.  He would be precluded from going anywhere that children normally congregated.

If for some reason his probation allowed hime to do so, if he would be placed in contact with children then that contact would have to be approved by the sentencing court prior to the contact, and the parents of the children that he was having contact with would have to be informed of the nature of his conviction, prior to such contact.

This rule assumes that all sex offenders are child predators, which is not the case. regardless, I doubt a school could force a sex offender's children to attend school elsewhere. And, so what do you expect the sex offender's kids to do - not have friends?

To the contrary.  The rule only presumes that a person has been convicted of a sex offense against a child and as such because of the high risk of re-offending for that crime, we are going to preclude all sex offenders from having contact with children. 

You're right, not all sex offenders are child predators.  Likewise not all sex offenders are pedophiles, and similarly not all pedophiles are sex offenders.  But how do you determine which is which?  So the only workable manner to ensure the safety of society is to have a blanket rule.

And regarding the school issue.  The children of a sex offender can have all the friends they want in the school.  They can go to school, play with other kids, go to camps, go to little league....the sex offender just can't go there.



What happens when the sex offender's kid invites your kid over for a birthday party?

Whatever the case, I'm in law enforcement and while I understand the concerns around sex offenders, I am hesitant when it comes to the blanket enforcement of them, particularly when a lot of legislation seems like a knee jerk reaction to the most publicised cases involving the abduction of kids by complete strangers. Statistics have shown that kids are more often molested by a person they know - most often a parent or other family member. The legislation does not seem to take into consideration rehabilitation, and the existing research into rehabilitation of sex offenders. Yes, some offenders are amenable to rehabilitation (while others are not), and I don't see how ostracising them (and their families) is going to solve anything. Supervision by parole and probation has an impact on their recidivism, however, excluding them/banishing them to rural areas isn't the answer. They (and their families) need support in the form of social and psych services, extended family and access to employment, reasonable housing accomodations. I fail to see how setting someone up for failure is the solution to a problem, which is what the current system is doing. What the current system does is release offenders from prison and say, "Hey, don't go there, you can't work here or there, you can't live here or there, etc." One of the key areas of compliance with probationers is employment. How do you expect compliance when the offender is being sent off to some po-dunk town with no employment prospects? With that said, I am in no way advocating for them; I simply know enough that I'm aware that current legislation may not be the cure-all we are seeking.

BTW, I recently encountered a situation where a sex offender is not required to register. Yes, there are some charges that do not require registration.

Edited by betyoursilver 2007-04-09 8:36 PM
2007-04-09 8:47 PM
in reply to: #754639

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

Alex:  I agree that current legislation may not be a cure for everything.  In Florida, as a condition of probation we require mandatory sex offender counseling.  Additionally, I'm not sure if the system is at fault for sex offenders having trouble finding employment after their conviction.  I can imagine employers not wanting to hire a convicted sex offender, and most are allowed to ask about criminal convictions on job applications.

I'm not sure what the answer is.  I can only speak about Florida's statutory set up, and while there are flaws, and loopholes, I believe it's pretty effective and fair.

I will say that I do not believe that individual communities have the legal authority to set ordances increasing the residency restrictions beyond what is set by the State Legislature.  I'm not sure how, say a city like Miami, can get away with increasing the statutory restrictions from say 1,000 feet to 2,500 feet.

2007-04-09 10:10 PM
in reply to: #754656

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Master
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
ASA22 - 2007-04-09 6:47 PM

Alex:  I agree that current legislation may not be a cure for everything.  In Florida, as a condition of probation we require mandatory sex offender counseling.  Additionally, I'm not sure if the system is at fault for sex offenders having trouble finding employment after their conviction.  I can imagine employers not wanting to hire a convicted sex offender, and most are allowed to ask about criminal convictions on job applications.

I'm not sure what the answer is.  I can only speak about Florida's statutory set up, and while there are flaws, and loopholes, I believe it's pretty effective and fair.

I will say that I do not believe that individual communities have the legal authority to set ordances increasing the residency restrictions beyond what is set by the State Legislature.  I'm not sure how, say a city like Miami, can get away with increasing the statutory restrictions from say 1,000 feet to 2,500 feet.



Sex offenders are similarly mandated to attend counseling here as well. In places like San Francisco, I'm not sure how the limitations on sex offenders' residence is going to play out, considering that the city is geographically very small and there are alot of parks, schools, etc, and therefore would make all but one neighborhood off limits to them, and even then it's questionable whether SOs would be in compliance. Surely, there are plenty of jobs where employers do not ask about previous convictions, and some jurisdictions have various training programs in the trades and offenders are encouraged to participate. regardless of one's charges, I've always encouraged my convicted felons to access to local job training programs. Just because they are felons, I do not believe they should be precluded from working. experience tells me, if they have a job, they're more likely to comply and be successful on probation.


2007-04-09 11:56 PM
in reply to: #754761

Subject: ...
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2007-04-10 12:00 AM
in reply to: #750408

Elite
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
^^^Lara, we're giving you the "Don Imus Temporary Suspension" treatment for that little remark.
2007-04-10 10:23 AM
in reply to: #750408

Champion
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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live

ASA:  Question.  If a sex offender lives and owns house "A".  He/she has been living there for 2+ yrs and has been observing all requirement they had to.  Now they decided to build a park across the street or open up a day care center next door.  Does she/he have to move?

This is just a curiosity question.

2007-04-10 10:29 AM
in reply to: #754808

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Subject: RE: Sex offenders finding a place to live
ChineseDemocracy - 2007-04-10 12:00 AM

^^^Lara, we're giving you the "Don Imus Temporary Suspension" treatment for that little remark.


yes and we will not rest until you get fired too.

how dare you make a joke on the ugly. they are people too.


Edited by chirunner134 2007-04-10 10:30 AM
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