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2007-06-08 11:33 AM

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

Saw a story recently where a woman's missing dog was returned to her thanks to a microchip placed in the dog.  Nice.  Can I ask a question?

Why the *%$# don't we do this with our kids?  How many children a year would be saved if we could Lojack them?

I already know most of the real arguments against doing this.  They don't seem to add up to enough that it shouldn't be an option to a parent, IMO.

Discuss.

Heck, I'd have it done so my wife would know where I'm at while I'm out training.  i'd love to have that kind of security in case I was involved in some kind of incident.  In fact, I'd push for a triathlete option that would take care of my HR data too.  Maybe it could link up with a bike computer.  And we'd get accurate OWS distances too.



Edited by hangloose 2007-06-08 11:35 AM


2007-06-08 11:39 AM
in reply to: #835966

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

While I see your point, and in theory actually kind of agree with you, it's just a little to "1984" for my taste.

2007-06-08 11:40 AM
in reply to: #835966

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

The chips in animals are not lojacked. They are passive; only by waving a wand over the animal is the information revealed.

If you want your kids chipped, take them down to the vet. The chip is inserted by a largish needle and the chip is about the size of a rice grain.

2007-06-08 11:41 AM
in reply to: #835994

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
maggyruth - 2007-06-08 11:39 AM

While I see your point, and in theory actually kind of agree with you, it's just a little to "1984" for my taste.

So don't do it with your kids.  That's fine with me.  I want to the option to do it to mine and when I think about it i'm really surprised that its not available.

2007-06-08 11:41 AM
in reply to: #835995

Elite
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
Renee - 2007-06-08 10:40 AM

The chips in animals are not lojacked. They are passive; only by waving a wand over the animal is the information revealed.

If you want your kids chipped, take them down to the vet. The chip is inserted by a largish needle and the chip is about the size of a rice grain.

So it's basically the same thing as a race timing chip in a different package.

 

2007-06-08 11:42 AM
in reply to: #835995

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
Renee - 2007-06-08 11:40 AM

The chips in animals are not lojacked. They are passive; only by waving a wand over the animal is the information revealed.

If you want your kids chipped, take them down to the vet. The chip is inserted by a largish needle and the chip is about the size of a rice grain.

Ok, the technology is there and you know it.  The pet example was just what sparked the line of thought.  Don't bog down in the details - it could be done.  why isn't it?  And do you really think a vet would do it.  That's absurd.



2007-06-08 11:42 AM
in reply to: #836001

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
ScottoNM - 2007-06-08 12:41 PM
Renee - 2007-06-08 10:40 AM

The chips in animals are not lojacked. They are passive; only by waving a wand over the animal is the information revealed.

If you want your kids chipped, take them down to the vet. The chip is inserted by a largish needle and the chip is about the size of a rice grain.

So it's basically the same thing as a race timing chip in a different package.

Yup. A teeny package.

2007-06-08 11:44 AM
in reply to: #835999

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Sneaky Slow
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
hangloose - 2007-06-08 12:41 PM
maggyruth - 2007-06-08 11:39 AM

While I see your point, and in theory actually kind of agree with you, it's just a little to "1984" for my taste.

So don't do it with your kids. That's fine with me. I want to the option to do it to mine and when I think about it i'm really surprised that its not available.

I was thinking along the same lines of maggy when it occurred to me, most parents probably wouldn't go in this direction.  I think.  No evidence to back that up, just my inclination.  If my inclination is true, that means there is not much of a market for it, which might be one reason, ethical considerations aside, that this sort of device does not exist at the moment.

2007-06-08 11:46 AM
in reply to: #836008

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
hangloose - 2007-06-08 12:42 PM
Renee - 2007-06-08 11:40 AM

The chips in animals are not lojacked. They are passive; only by waving a wand over the animal is the information revealed.

If you want your kids chipped, take them down to the vet. The chip is inserted by a largish needle and the chip is about the size of a rice grain.

Ok, the technology is there and you know it.  The pet example was just what sparked the line of thought.  Don't bog down in the details - it could be done.  why isn't it?  And do you really think a vet would do it.  That's absurd.

1) You were talking about 2 different technologies. The technology already exists to implant an identity marker in your animal (or child). This marker (chip) is passive and does not require energy/battery.

2) I have no idea what it would take to create a chip that would send out a gps signal or what kind of energy that chip would require, as it is not a passive device.

3) I don't think it's absurd to ask your vet to chip your kids. As long as there's no law against it, why not? Its just a needle and a very tiny device. My cat didn't even flinch when they chipped her.

2007-06-08 11:47 AM
in reply to: #836025

Elite
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
Renee - 2007-06-08 10:46 AM
hangloose - 2007-06-08 12:42 PM
Renee - 2007-06-08 11:40 AM

The chips in animals are not lojacked. They are passive; only by waving a wand over the animal is the information revealed.

If you want your kids chipped, take them down to the vet. The chip is inserted by a largish needle and the chip is about the size of a rice grain.

Ok, the technology is there and you know it.  The pet example was just what sparked the line of thought.  Don't bog down in the details - it could be done.  why isn't it?  And do you really think a vet would do it.  That's absurd.

1) You were talking about 2 different technologies. The technology already exists to implant an identity marker in your animal (or child). This marker (chip) is passive and does not require energy/battery.

2) I have no idea what it would take to create a chip that would send out a gps signal or what kind of energy that chip would require, as it is not a passive device.

3) I don't think it's absurd to ask your vet to chip your kids. As long as there's no law against it, why not? Its just a needle and a very tiny device. My cat didn't even flinch when they chipped her.

HL, it's even easier than that. Just buy a championchip and sew it into your kids backpack.

 

2007-06-08 11:51 AM
in reply to: #836023

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
newLeaf - 2007-06-08 11:44 AM

I was thinking along the same lines of maggy when it occurred to me, most parents probably wouldn't go in this direction.  I think.  No evidence to back that up, just my inclination.  If my inclination is true, that means there is not much of a market for it, which might be one reason, ethical considerations aside, that this sort of device does not exist at the moment.

Ok, that's one reason why not.  Why do you think that is?  It's invasive?  Let's assume that the technology exists, or could in months if so desired, and that it is safe.  If the objection is that it is invasive then have it taken out when your kid reaches the age where you think he/she deserves that privacy.  Would it be too invasive for a 2 year old?  3 year old?  I'm not talking about tracking if he's at the library on Friday night when he's in college.



2007-06-08 11:52 AM
in reply to: #836029

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

Or... check out this company, VeriChip.

Wonder if Mrs. Matchman will receive one of these as a baby shower gift...

You know how diabetics used to wear those ID bracelets? This would serve the same purpose except the chip implant wouldn't fall off/get lost.



Edited by Renee 2007-06-08 11:56 AM
2007-06-08 11:53 AM
in reply to: #835966

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Sneaky Slow
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

what is the point of chipping your kid with a passive device?  It makes sense for pets since they cannot say "Yes indeed, I am Rover, the dog you have been looking for."  Kids, at least once they get to a certain age, are able to identify themselves.

I don't think with a passive device, that even one more kid would be saved.  So in that sense, it is absurd to take your kid to the vet to be chipped. 

2007-06-08 11:56 AM
in reply to: #836047

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Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
newLeaf - 2007-06-08 11:53 AM

what is the point of chipping your kid with a passive device?  It makes sense for pets since they cannot say "Yes indeed, I am Rover, the dog you have been looking for."  Kids, at least once they get to a certain age, are able to identify themselves.

I don't think with a passive device, that even one more kid would be saved.  So in that sense, it is absurd to take your kid to the vet to be chipped. 

The passive device is the springboard for the conversation and is sidetracking the question at hand. 

 

2007-06-08 11:57 AM
in reply to: #836047

Elite
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
newLeaf - 2007-06-08 10:53 AM

 So in that sense, it is absurd to take your kid to the vet to be chipped. 

yes, in that sense and in that one sense only, it's an absurd thing to do

 

2007-06-08 11:57 AM
in reply to: #836040

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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
hangloose - 2007-06-08 12:51 PM
newLeaf - 2007-06-08 11:44 AM

I was thinking along the same lines of maggy when it occurred to me, most parents probably wouldn't go in this direction. I think. No evidence to back that up, just my inclination. If my inclination is true, that means there is not much of a market for it, which might be one reason, ethical considerations aside, that this sort of device does not exist at the moment.

Ok, that's one reason why not. Why do you think that is? It's invasive? Let's assume that the technology exists, or could in months if so desired, and that it is safe. If the objection is that it is invasive then have it taken out when your kid reaches the age where you think he/she deserves that privacy. Would it be too invasive for a 2 year old? 3 year old? I'm not talking about tracking if he's at the library on Friday night when he's in college.

I wish that I could do a better job elucidating this, but at least for me, there is just something that doesn't "seem right" about it, too Orwellian...

or perhaps it is the slippery slope issue... if one was to implant such a device into a child... where might that lead in the future? 



2007-06-08 12:00 PM
in reply to: #836009

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Champion
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the colony texas
Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
Renee - 2007-06-08 11:42 AM

p>

Yup. A teeny package.



you called his "package" tenny haaaaaa

,

Like it was posted before the chip pets get don't transmit, only after the pet is found and the reader is passed over do you get the info.. Not getting bogged down .....but cell phone [abroadcast position to GPS satalites , the device that does it is very smallish also,, I'm not sure of the power source requirement's. But these devices are used for different purposes besides cars and cell phones,

I would be worried about access.. If it's transmitting a signal then it can be hacked, inventing a a super stalker, Just to be parinoid if you wanted to find a certain child location to follow them and then grab them you could...

ok i'm not that parinoid and after typing I realize it makes no sense,, if some nut is going to take a child he will regardless...I just don't know how to do that cool strike though thing.

I can think of lots of different instantance where this would be helpfull and harmfull, but I don't think many people live the type of life that would merit it

2007-06-08 12:04 PM
in reply to: #836047

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

I called my vet. They said they are not licensed to treat humans so they couldn't chip your kids. She also said physicians are waiting for some legal constraints to be sorted out before they start offering the service.

I can see where having life-threatening medical conditions written into the chip would be beneficial for an adult or child. Like I said, same as the diabetic's bracelet but better. Once the use becomes widespread, anyway.

I can also see where chipping a child might assist in their identification/recovery if they were ever lost or, the universe forbid, stolen.

BTW, I thought they already sold backpacks with lojack type devices sewn into them?? I'm sure I saw marketing for them.


Here's a bit of marketing blahblah about the implantable VeriChip:

VeriChip products marked by the “Implantable” icon mean they utilize the implantable, passive RFID microchip, the VeriChip™, in their solutions for the purpose of automatic identification.

About the size of a grain of rice, the microchip inserts just under the skin and contains only a unique, 16-digit identifier. The chip itself does not contain any other data other than this unique electronic ID, nor does it contain any Global Positioning System (GPS) tracking capabilities. And unlike conventional forms of identification, the VeriChip™ cannot be lost, stolen, misplaced, or counterfeited. It is safe, secure, reversible, and always with you.

Once inserted just under the skin, via a quick, painless outpatient procedure (much like getting a shot), the VeriChip™ can be scanned when necessary with a proprietary VeriChip reader, whether handheld or wall-mounted. A small amount of radio frequency energy passes from the reader energizing the dormant microchip which then emits a radio frequency signal transmitting the individuals unique verification number. This number can then be used for such purposes as accessing personal medical information in a password-protected database or assessing whether somebody has authority to enter into a high-security area.

VeriChip is the only company in the world today to offer an implantable FDA-cleared RFID microchip and offers this option in its VeriMed and VeriGuard systems.



Edited by Renee 2007-06-08 12:10 PM
2007-06-08 12:10 PM
in reply to: #836084

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
Actually back in the early 90's when I was at walter reed hospital, the military was testing out different verison of what renee mentions.. not to track where the person was but having all of your medical records attached to your dog tags, once the initial medic gets to you they would have everything they need hx wise as well as anyplace you get sent.. I'm not sure what happened to that project.

I think that would be incredibly usefull,, Like a Road ID on steriods,

2007-06-08 12:10 PM
in reply to: #835966

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

IMO, people aren't interested in doing this because they think this will never happen to them or their kids. How many Jane and John Does are found each year? Collecting DNA and fingerprints from your kids and spouses is very easy, yet how many people have done that?

Probably not that many. Why? Because nothing will ever happen to my kids.

2007-06-08 12:14 PM
in reply to: #835966

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

They already have something similiar to this.  They have a cell phone that parents can track their kids.  The can go to the computer and even tell if Susie is traveling at 80 mph running a red light and call them to slow down.

I believe Disney phones has one that tracks your kid.  Not quite an implant, but same concept.



2007-06-08 12:20 PM
in reply to: #836094

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

 

I think people are funny about what kind of information is randomly available out there.  I could see a parent's concern with a child walking around with a chip that contains all of their personal records including name, age, address, etc.  It would take just one wave of the wand reader across the back of an unsuspecting child walking home from school for some perv to get all of that information about that kid.  And then turn around and say, 'Hey Jimmy Doe, your mom just called and asked me to take you home to 123 lake drive....' 

I know its a good idea, but people always seem to take a good one and turn it into something bad. 

2007-06-08 12:27 PM
in reply to: #836094

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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
madcow - 2007-06-08 1:10 PM

IMO, people aren't interested in doing this because they think this will never happen to them or their kids. How many Jane and John Does are found each year? Collecting DNA and fingerprints from your kids and spouses is very easy, yet how many people have done that?

Probably not that many. Why? Because nothing will ever happen to my kids.

Are there really lots of unidentified kids being found, that no one is ever able to identify? If something God forbid happened to my daughter, we wouldn't need pre-collected DNA or a chip, to identify her.



Edited by newLeaf 2007-06-08 12:28 PM
2007-06-08 12:36 PM
in reply to: #836127

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?

We had a notorious case here in Tampa. Couple claimed their infant daughter, Sabrina, was stolen out of her crib in the middle of the night. Baby has never been found. Several years later, someone saw Sabrina's photo and thought that she looked like a small child in the neighborhood. Called the police, etc. Fortunately, Sabrina's parents had her DNA and they were able to, unfortunately, ascertain that this little girl was not their missing daughter. Imagine if Sabrina were chipped. And schools started scanning kids to ascertain the identity of children. How many kids go missing every year?

Hate to think about those scenarios but if I had a kid, I'd have no trouble whatsoever implanting a chip or recording their DNA and fingerprints (my sister/BIL had their boys fingerprinted). 

We carry around ID all the time - what's the difference between my passport or drivers license and a chip with unique # that can be traced to a database with my identity?

Googled my own questions: According to the Department of Justice, almost 800,000 children are reported missing to law enforcement each year, while another 500,000 children go missing without being reported to authorities.

2007-06-08 12:37 PM
in reply to: #836094

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Master
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Subject: RE: Pets and microchips - Y Not Kids?
madcow - 2007-06-08 11:10 AM

IMO, people aren't interested in doing this because they think this will never happen to them or their kids. How many Jane and John Does are found each year? Collecting DNA and fingerprints from your kids and spouses is very easy, yet how many people have done that?

Probably not that many. Why? Because nothing will ever happen to my kids.



I see the point you are making, but the fact is that the risk of your child being abducted are extremly small. They had a segment on tv about it just this morning. They said there are about 800,000 children that go missing in the US every year, but once you take out the ones who run away and who are kidnapped by someone known to them there are only about 115 per year which are abducted by strangers. It's just that the thought of your kid being one of those 115 is so scary that the risk seems much greater.

Edited by drewb8 2007-06-08 12:38 PM
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