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2007-06-18 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
And I have no issues with Ferarri, except they're a bi*** to maintain.


2007-06-18 11:55 AM
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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
bradword - 2007-06-18 12:49 PM

And I have no issues with Ferarri, except they're a bi*** to maintain.


That reminds me of a party I attended many years ago. One of the guys there was heir to a toy company fortune and showed up in his brand new 911 turbo. So, all of these guys at the party are telling him about these products that are super effective to clean it. I was just sitting there thinking that if this dude is driving around a 911 turbo, what are the chances that he's washing it himself rather than having somebody wash it for him?
2007-06-18 12:02 PM
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2007-06-18 12:11 PM
in reply to: #848816

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
mr2tony - 2007-06-18 12:49 PM

CptnJackSparrow - 2007-06-18 11:44 AM

Opus - 2007-06-18 12:25 PM

Nothing wrong with American muscle cars, but let's not confuse cars that have lots of power and go fast in a straight line to cars that are actually meant to stay on the road and corner.


You mean like Detriot Speed and Engineering's 1969 Pro-Touring Twister Camaro?


(larger pic)


(larger pic)


Beautiful car that's fast. Still heavy with lots of body roll and probably wouldn't be ideal on a road course or at an AutoX.


Although I know where you are coming from, it seems like the guys at DSE do pretty well to me...



True, an old-school muscle car won't hug the road like a newer "ricer," but you have to give the advances in Pro-Touring suspension their due.

2007-06-18 12:29 PM
in reply to: #848836

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports

Opus - 2007-06-18 10:55 AM
bradword - 2007-06-18 12:49 PM And I have no issues with Ferarri, except they're a bi*** to maintain.
That reminds me of a party I attended many years ago. One of the guys there was heir to a toy company fortune and showed up in his brand new 911 turbo. So, all of these guys at the party are telling him about these products that are super effective to clean it. I was just sitting there thinking that if this dude is driving around a 911 turbo, what are the chances that he's washing it himself rather than having somebody wash it for him?

You might be surprised how many owners like that might wash their cars IF they are a car addict, but most probably don't.  

 

What I was saying with the Ferarri was not personally it would be hard to mantain, but talking to a few owners around here they say if they drive a lot there is always something to fix.  They are very precise, not something you can drive every day or anything that will get to 100k miles on it's original engine. 

 

They are fast and they are sexy though  

2007-06-18 12:59 PM
in reply to: #848811

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
bradword - 2007-06-18 11:48 AM

Opus - 2007-06-18 10:25 AM Nothing wrong with American muscle cars, but let's not confuse cars that have lots of power and go fast in a straight line to cars that are actually meant to stay on the road and corner.

 

I agree with that :D 



x2

Give me a car with a turbo AND 4WD and now we're talking. My favorite car of ours was a Celica All-Trac. Loved that little car.

(My husband used to drive rally in the woods of MI and MN, so it's a sentimental thing.)


2007-06-18 1:53 PM
in reply to: #848897

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
bradword - 2007-06-18 1:29 PM

Opus - 2007-06-18 10:55 AM
bradword - 2007-06-18 12:49 PM And I have no issues with Ferarri, except they're a bi*** to maintain.
That reminds me of a party I attended many years ago. One of the guys there was heir to a toy company fortune and showed up in his brand new 911 turbo. So, all of these guys at the party are telling him about these products that are super effective to clean it. I was just sitting there thinking that if this dude is driving around a 911 turbo, what are the chances that he's washing it himself rather than having somebody wash it for him?

You might be surprised how many owners like that might wash their cars IF they are a car addict, but most probably don't.  

 

What I was saying with the Ferarri was not personally it would be hard to mantain, but talking to a few owners around here they say if they drive a lot there is always something to fix.  They are very precise, not something you can drive every day or anything that will get to 100k miles on it's original engine. 

 

They are fast and they are sexy though  



Actually, just after I typed that I thought of having taken a walk on F1 weekend here in Montreal. I live about a 5 minute walk from the lakeshore where there is some fairly serious money. What did I see? A guy washing his Ferrari 575 M.
2007-06-18 2:37 PM
in reply to: #848985

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
kanders - 2007-06-18 12:59 PM
Give me a car with a turbo AND 4WD and now we're talking. My favorite car of ours was a Celica All-Trac. Loved that little car.


Kanders. Thats the sexiest thing I've ever heard a woman say right next to the time my wife looked at the interior of the MR2 and said `I wonder if we could get it on in here?'
2007-06-18 2:48 PM
in reply to: #846822

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
I really don't like American muscle cars.
2007-06-18 2:49 PM
in reply to: #849265

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
mr2tony - 2007-06-18 2:37 PM

kanders - 2007-06-18 12:59 PM
Give me a car with a turbo AND 4WD and now we're talking. My favorite car of ours was a Celica All-Trac. Loved that little car.


Kanders. Thats the sexiest thing I've ever heard a woman say right next to the time my wife looked at the interior of the MR2 and said `I wonder if we could get it on in here?'


Why, thankee, sir. I do think my then soon-to-be husband fell in love with me when we were shopping for that car!

What I don't understand is why there are fewer cars like that today. There's the Subaru WRX models, and Lancer's EVO, but who else is making turbo 4wd sedans (that aren't outrageously expensive, and yes, I'm looking at you Audi and BMW)? And why doesn't somebody make one that will seat 5 comfortably?

I hate driving a minivan. I love each member of our family, but wish that one would volunteer to ride on a roofrack or something so we could have 2 fun cars.
2007-06-18 2:55 PM
in reply to: #848628

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
KRCSWO - 2007-06-18 8:48 AM

I like american muscle cars, and sports cars.  A lot of the import tuner stuff is garbage, but some of it you really have to appreciate.  (MR2, Supra, 4wd turbo's)

I just can't stand the guys that take a stock Honda, add a heavy wing and ground effects kit paired with a coffee can exhaust and drive like they are all that.  You're not.



LOL! You forgot to add "really bad paint job" to your list. Perhaps we've encountered the same tricked out Honda Civic clown cars on the freeway. As a Honda owner, I really don't understand the point in tricking out anything Honda produces, or Toyota (i.e. the Scion OH PUHleaze!), or Subaru, etc., for that matter. If I wanted a car that could go very fast, I'd simply buy one that was originally intended to do so.


2007-06-18 2:59 PM
in reply to: #849292

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
betyoursilver - 2007-06-18 2:55 PM

KRCSWO - 2007-06-18 8:48 AM

I like american muscle cars, and sports cars.  A lot of the import tuner stuff is garbage, but some of it you really have to appreciate.  (MR2, Supra, 4wd turbo's)

I just can't stand the guys that take a stock Honda, add a heavy wing and ground effects kit paired with a coffee can exhaust and drive like they are all that.  You're not.



LOL! You forgot to add "really bad paint job" to your list. Perhaps we've encountered the same tricked out Honda Civic clown cars on the freeway. As a Honda owner, I really don't understand the point in tricking out anything Honda produces, or Toyota (i.e. the Scion OH PUHleaze!), or Subaru, etc., for that matter. If I wanted a car that could go very fast, I'd simply buy one that was originally intended to do so.


Hey I had a Subaru WRX (the daily driver for the MR2) and it looked stock but had some modifications under the hood. That was a fast car. If you've never driven one then I think you'd really enjoy the way the AWD launches and handles.

Again, I'd slap around SOME Cobras and Camaro SS', some Vettes and pretty much every Mustang and Z28 on the street in my little four-banger with $1000 in mods. It was all go and no show -- a total sleeper.
2007-06-18 3:02 PM
in reply to: #849292

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
betyoursilver - 2007-06-18 3:55 PM
KRCSWO - 2007-06-18 8:48 AM

I like american muscle cars, and sports cars.  A lot of the import tuner stuff is garbage, but some of it you really have to appreciate.  (MR2, Supra, 4wd turbo's)

I just can't stand the guys that take a stock Honda, add a heavy wing and ground effects kit paired with a coffee can exhaust and drive like they are all that.  You're not.

LOL! You forgot to add "really bad paint job" to your list. Perhaps we've encountered the same tricked out Honda Civic clown cars on the freeway. As a Honda owner, I really don't understand the point in tricking out anything Honda produces, or Toyota (i.e. the Scion OH PUHleaze!), or Subaru, etc., for that matter. If I wanted a car that could go very fast, I'd simply buy one that was originally intended to do so.

I think the Japanese (and German) imports lend themselves very easily to tuning at a resonable price.  Some of them putting out decent power with good handling.  The problem you see on the streets is that is all about show and no go.  No point in dumping money into it if you are going to go and put on 20" wheels and an extra 500 lbs in entertainment equipment. 

The guys and girls I see running imports at SCCA auto-x do very well and have put there money where it belongs.

2007-06-19 1:08 AM
in reply to: #846822

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports

While we're dreaming, I'll take one of each:


 



Edited by dibujob 2007-06-19 1:10 AM
2007-06-19 1:22 AM
in reply to: #846822

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
I like all kinds... But, I have been really happy with my American muscle....



recently sold....I think I need a new Z06....

Kenny
2007-06-19 2:45 AM
in reply to: #846822

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
American and Import muscle are both fun, but there are a select few foreign "icon" cars that are really worth investing dollars into if you want a really fast tuner car: 996 TT, 997TT, GT2, GT3 from Porsche, 92-93 RX7 TT, 90-96 300ZX TT, early 90's Supra TT, Celica All Trac Turbo, M3 and now the 335i TT from Bmw, and of course one car dear to my heart: the Audi S4 TT with awd and turbo equals lots of disappointment for many Corvette,Camaro, WRX, Porsche 996 TT and other drivers

My car has been featured in six different issues of European Car, EuroTuner, and Super Street.
As delivered, the car had 250hp, 258 tq, 190whp. Now, 558hp,470 tq, 465 whp, and 11.9 1/4 mile at 122 mph. I like that it will do 91 mph in the 1/8th mile

Not bad for a little four door sedan that I can carry a bike inside of !

Edited by Z-dog 2007-06-19 2:50 AM




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2007-06-19 3:40 AM
in reply to: #849964

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports

I  wash my car and do all the detailing. Somebody else doing it would be like somebody touching my wife.

I also like to wash my wife too.

 

By hand.



Edited by cerveloP3 2007-06-19 3:40 AM
2007-06-19 10:36 AM
in reply to: #849969

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
cerveloP3 - 2007-06-19 4:40 AM

I  wash my car and do all the detailing. Somebody else doing it would be like somebody touching my wife.

I also like to wash my wife too.

 

By hand.



Does your wife know that you feel so, ah, amorous about your car?

I guess I must have been thinking about myself and if I was in the position of this other guy. His family is worth tens of millions of $$. He could afford to hire a guy to do only car detailing if he wanted.

Anyway, what do I know? I don't own a Porsche and it's highly unlikely that I ever will.
2007-06-19 1:02 PM
in reply to: #846822

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports

I guess that I am just getting old because I care neither for speed nor for sportiness.  There is only one car ever made that really turns my crank and that is the Jaguar Mark 2, produced between 1959 and 1967. 

 



Edited by Machiavelo 2007-06-19 1:05 PM




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2007-06-19 3:03 PM
in reply to: #846822

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
PLEASE don't lump those idiots with the 10hp APC stickers on their cars with tuners. There's a big difference. That's like calling all football players a bunch of fat, unathletic slobs because you see more slobs playing flag football than real athletes. There are some tuners out there (as evidenced by the beautiful S4 pictures above) who actually take pride in what they are doing. I used to drive an Evo VIII and got lumped in with those tuner idiots all the time. Pissed me off.
American muscle doesn't do much for me. Sure, they are fast in a straight line, but I'll take my stock Evo every day of the week. At the end of that week, I could throw my wife, two kids, toys and clothes into the trunk (okay, I'm not throwing my wife and kids in the trunk...) for a weekend getaway. AND, if I could stay out of boost, I'd get gas mileage in the high 20's. Not bad for a $30k econo-box with 276hp. 0-60 in 4.5secs.
Take the Corvette for example. One of the most BEAUTIFUL cars on the road today (I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had $55k to spend), but Chevy STILL hasn't figured out how to get sporty handling with a supple ride. BMW has done it, Mercedes has done it, Ferrari has done it, and Porsche has done it. Why can't Chevy? I mean come on, the car has been around since the 50's.
And then take the new Mustang. It will run as an also ran until the day they get rid of the solid rear axle.
So yeah, I'll take an import tuner. 19 pounds of boost in an AWD car weighing less than 3000lbs is quite a rush.

Man, I'm starting to ache for my Evo again...

Plus, the import tuner market is alot more robust than the American market. You could spend $5k on an Evo and get 450hp AND be street legal.
2007-06-19 3:06 PM
in reply to: #851072

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
D.Z. - 2007-06-19 3:03 PM

PLEASE don't lump those idiots with the 10hp APC stickers on their cars with tuners. There's a big difference. That's like calling all football players a bunch of fat, unathletic slobs because you see more slobs playing flag football than real athletes. There are some tuners out there (as evidenced by the beautiful S4 pictures above) who actually take pride in what they are doing. I used to drive an Evo VIII and got lumped in with those tuner idiots all the time. Pissed me off.
American muscle doesn't do much for me. Sure, they are fast in a straight line, but I'll take my stock Evo every day of the week. At the end of that week, I could throw my wife, two kids, toys and clothes into the trunk (okay, I'm not throwing my wife and kids in the trunk...) for a weekend getaway. AND, if I could stay out of boost, I'd get gas mileage in the high 20's. Not bad for a $30k econo-box with 276hp. 0-60 in 4.5secs.
Take the Corvette for example. One of the most BEAUTIFUL cars on the road today (I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had $55k to spend), but Chevy STILL hasn't figured out how to get sporty handling with a supple ride. BMW has done it, Mercedes has done it, Ferrari has done it, and Porsche has done it. Why can't Chevy? I mean come on, the car has been around since the 50's.
And then take the new Mustang. It will run as an also ran until the day they get rid of the solid rear axle.
So yeah, I'll take an import tuner. 19 pounds of boost in an AWD car weighing less than 3000lbs is quite a rush.

Man, I'm starting to ache for my Evo again...

Plus, the import tuner market is alot more robust than the American market. You could spend $5k on an Evo and get 450hp AND be street legal.


DZ ... I agree with you on all points. One thing though ... the Mustang has a solid rear axle because that's what Mustang enthusiasts want. The die-hards who buy these things every time a new body style comes out tell Ford NOT to change the axle. Or so I'm told by Mustang enthusiasts.


2007-06-19 3:10 PM
in reply to: #851072

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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports

D.Z. - 2007-06-19 4:03 PM PLEASE don't lump those idiots with the 10hp APC stickers on their cars with tuners. There's a big difference. That's like calling all football players a bunch of fat, unathletic slobs because you see more slobs playing flag football than real athletes. There are some tuners out there (as evidenced by the beautiful S4 pictures above) who actually take pride in what they are doing. I used to drive an Evo VIII and got lumped in with those tuner idiots all the time. Pissed me off. American muscle doesn't do much for me. Sure, they are fast in a straight line, but I'll take my stock Evo every day of the week. At the end of that week, I could throw my wife, two kids, toys and clothes into the trunk (okay, I'm not throwing my wife and kids in the trunk...) for a weekend getaway. AND, if I could stay out of boost, I'd get gas mileage in the high 20's. Not bad for a $30k econo-box with 276hp. 0-60 in 4.5secs. Take the Corvette for example. One of the most BEAUTIFUL cars on the road today (I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had $55k to spend), but Chevy STILL hasn't figured out how to get sporty handling with a supple ride. BMW has done it, Mercedes has done it, Ferrari has done it, and Porsche has done it. Why can't Chevy? I mean come on, the car has been around since the 50's. And then take the new Mustang. It will run as an also ran until the day they get rid of the solid rear axle. So yeah, I'll take an import tuner. 19 pounds of boost in an AWD car weighing less than 3000lbs is quite a rush. Man, I'm starting to ache for my Evo again... Plus, the import tuner market is alot more robust than the American market. You could spend $5k on an Evo and get 450hp AND be street legal.

An Evo is going to be my next car.  I love them for exactly the same reasons you stated above!

2007-06-19 3:31 PM
in reply to: #851095

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2007-06-19 4:51 PM
in reply to: #851072

Master
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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
D.Z. - 2007-06-19 2:03 PM

PLEASE don't lump those idiots with the 10hp APC stickers on their cars with tuners. There's a big difference. That's like calling all football players a bunch of fat, unathletic slobs because you see more slobs playing flag football than real athletes. There are some tuners out there (as evidenced by the beautiful S4 pictures above) who actually take pride in what they are doing. I used to drive an Evo VIII and got lumped in with those tuner idiots all the time. Pissed me off.
American muscle doesn't do much for me. Sure, they are fast in a straight line, but I'll take my stock Evo every day of the week. At the end of that week, I could throw my wife, two kids, toys and clothes into the trunk (okay, I'm not throwing my wife and kids in the trunk...) for a weekend getaway. AND, if I could stay out of boost, I'd get gas mileage in the high 20's. Not bad for a $30k econo-box with 276hp. 0-60 in 4.5secs.
Take the Corvette for example. One of the most BEAUTIFUL cars on the road today (I would buy one in a heartbeat if I had $55k to spend), but Chevy STILL hasn't figured out how to get sporty handling with a supple ride. BMW has done it, Mercedes has done it, Ferrari has done it, and Porsche has done it. Why can't Chevy? I mean come on, the car has been around since the 50's.
And then take the new Mustang. It will run as an also ran until the day they get rid of the solid rear axle.
So yeah, I'll take an import tuner. 19 pounds of boost in an AWD car weighing less than 3000lbs is quite a rush.

Man, I'm starting to ache for my Evo again...

Plus, the import tuner market is alot more robust than the American market. You could spend $5k on an Evo and get 450hp AND be street legal.






OOPS!! Sorry I forgot the Evo (and the WRX)!!! I drove an incredible Evo VIII built by ForceFed and then handed over to STaSIS Engineering for chassis and brake tuning (these guys who race in Speed World Challenge also prepared my car).

In addition the Frocefed guys built a killer Lorus Elise project that was in Car and Driver, seen here

http://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/elise-forcedfed/forcedfed.htm
2007-06-19 8:01 PM
in reply to: #851085

Elite
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Subject: RE: cars: American Muscle vs. Highly Tuned up Imports
Tony - to be honest, I DOUBT HIGHLY that the Mustang has a solid rear-axle because the enthusiasts want it. Ford doesn't listen to well to its customers. If they did, they wouldn't be in the trouble they're in. My feeling is that it is CHEAPER to build a solid rear-axle, thus allowing Ford to hit the ever important price point that seems to be more important than building a real car. In a recent BusinessWeek article, they dug deep on the new head honcho there (Mullaly) and they exposed some of the issues facing Ford. Another article in Motor Trend discusses these same problems.

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