General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL) Rss Feed  
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2004-09-27 9:43 AM

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Veteran
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Woodbridge, VA
Subject: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
OK, working on swimming efficiency and have a dumb/easy question but need to know....how do you count the SPL? is it every time the SAME hand hits the water or every time EACH hand hits the water. I have been counting each time the left hand enters, is this correct??


2004-09-27 9:59 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Master
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Marietta, Ga
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I always interpreted it to mean each time a hand hits the water.  For example, left hand then right hand would be 2 strokes.
2004-09-27 10:10 AM
in reply to: #66808

Veteran
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Ankeny, Iowa
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
SPL counts every stroke, right and left. I don't count every stroke as I swim, I count every breath and multiply by 3.
2004-09-27 5:40 PM
in reply to: #66808

Veteran
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Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
Normally the strokes in SPL is everytime either hand hits the water. So left, right would be 2. This will match breathing patterns that you may see in workouts. If you see "breathe every 3" this would be left, right, left breathe, right, left, right breathe etc.

Very efficient SPL is about 12-13 for 25 meters. Also, the faster you go the more SPL you will tend to take. If you do 13-15 SPL when you are doing 1:30/100m you will end up at 15-17 for 1:20/100m.

Brittain
2004-09-27 5:42 PM
in reply to: #66808

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Master
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Sonoma County, CA
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I,too, do every stroke counts....if that's not the case then my 18-20 stroke count per 25 meters would be 36-40 and by my research would mean I have even more work to do than I thought on my stroke technique...

2004-09-27 6:27 PM
in reply to: #66808

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)


2004-09-27 6:37 PM
in reply to: #66808

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Elite Veteran
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northern Illinois
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I tend to count a set of strokes as one, but I know that goes against the typical paradigm. The reason I do this is that I want to be able to compare SPL across strokes.... So a stroke that's meant to be two armed, e.g. breast stroke, can then be sort of kind of compared to freestyle.

Besides, it freaks people out to say that you can get across the pool in 5 or 6 strokes

In reality, I've temporarily abandoned SPL and am working on getting a really quiet, efficient free style. I want to swim like those people who make it look effortless and graceful -and that's shot my SPL to hell. Temporarily, I hope.

Andrea
2004-09-27 7:55 PM
in reply to: #67109

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Veteran
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Woodbridge, VA
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I guess this is for the crowd....What kind of average SPL is poor/good/excellent/and Holy #$%^ per 25m?...And is this what you shoot for when you are in the Swim portion of the Tri? and finally (I am sure it depends on the conditions) but how does it compare to open water swimming when you have to look where you are going?? Yes you can tell I am a newbie..
jim
2004-09-27 9:03 PM
in reply to: #67128

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Master
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Raleigh, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
megerj - 2004-09-27 7:55 PM

I guess this is for the crowd....What kind of average SPL is poor/good/excellent/and Holy #$%^ per 25m?...And is this what you shoot for when you are in the Swim portion of the Tri? and finally (I am sure it depends on the conditions) but how does it compare to open water swimming when you have to look where you are going?? Yes you can tell I am a newbie..
jim


I think you can reach a point where you are being very hydro efficient in the water, but not very time efficient. Somewhere there's a balance - unfortunately, I'm much of a newb too to decree SPL's.
2004-09-27 10:43 PM
in reply to: #67128

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Elite
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Bay Area, CA
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
Good SPL for 25 is a count that is anything under 20. I can do this consistently, I just can't go fast. I'm one of the super-efficient super-slow people. So, you work on SPL, then work on speed, try and put them together, i.e. lower SPL while going faster.
2004-09-27 11:17 PM
in reply to: #66808

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Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I am a decent swimmer on speed and I feel like I can keep "my pace" up for the IM distance swim and I am looking at 20 strokes per 25 yd lap. We can always get better but I have tried to work fewer strokes per length and all I get is slower


2004-09-28 7:22 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Champion
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I've been stuck at about 27 SPL, even though I feel like my stroke is getting better (my body position & rotation have improved a lot). When I try too hard to reduce my SPL I end up gliding too much and my speed drops off to nothing. I'm only 5'6" with short arms, and don't see how I'll ever get to < 20 SPL.
2004-09-28 8:09 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Extreme Veteran
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Manitoba, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)

Does anyone know if the number is the same for males and females? More upper body translate into more distance per stroke = fewer strokes?  Or am I just looking for excuses here?

I counted my SPL this  morning and it is still 22 at my very best and can range up to 26 - and I need to get to 18??  How discouraging.

To count properly am I correct in assuming there is very little push off time from the wall and the stroke starts immediately?

2004-09-28 8:13 AM
in reply to: #67230

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Veteran
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Woodbridge, VA
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
For you open water veterans, how does open water effect your SPL (assuming you acutally count over the entire distance). Or is this something you don't worry about on race day??
2004-09-28 8:20 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Master
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Frisco, Texas
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
There are some great swimming tips at this site: http://www.cruciblefitness.com/etips/index.htm  They discuss SPL and 'Swim Golf' - a score combining SPL and the time for 50 m. 
2004-09-28 8:31 AM
in reply to: #67230

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Master
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Frisco, Texas
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)

I haven't read anywhere that the SPL is different for males and females.  It seems that the SPL should be less for females due to the weaker upper body strength.  On the other hand, females have a smaller frame (less drag) and lighter wieght so this should compensate for the weaker upper body.

On counting SPL, I think it's important to be consistent in how you count SPL.  I push off as normal, count, flip turn, count and then divide by 2 to get SPL for 25 m. 

BTW...my SPL is stuck at 22.  Can't seem to get it to move.



2004-09-28 8:39 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
You're height plays a role in stroke length too - as does hydrodynamic efficiency. Upper body strength has something to do with it, but shouldn't be considered as the only factor. And I count every hand. SPL will be different for different strokes. It's just easy to assume that when someone gives you a SPL, it's for freestyle.

-Frank
2004-09-28 9:21 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Elite
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Racine, WI
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)

My normal SPL has been 25 in a 25 yd pool, I learned the other day...AAAAARRRRGGG!  So this morning I tried to slow it down, got it down to 21 SPL just by trying to glide farther on each stroke.  It only took a few seconds off of my 50 yd time so that's not too bad, but it was HARD!  I felt like I was working so much harder than normal and my HR was up (altho I do have a cold).  I don't think I could keep it up for more than a couple hundred yards without a break.

But winter is coming=lots of pool time for me.

2004-09-28 9:37 AM
in reply to: #67255

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Extreme Veteran
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Manitoba, Canada
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)

I guess that makes sense about the upper body strength being compensated by the smaller body - oh well, that just means I have more work to do then! I have fallen into a swim routine and need to shake it up a bit.  Good link Zia Cyclist - thanks.

I agree Cindy about the harder work - when I'm really focused on stretching the reach and pulling hard through the water, and going fast - I have to limit it to 50m or 100m set, then a 50m relaxed set and repeat....  Ps- hope your cold disappears soon

2004-09-28 10:11 AM
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Master
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Sonoma County, CA
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I was struggling with my stroke for awhile...couldn't get lower than 20-22....did some research and read up about front quadrant swimming: http://sparkspiranhas.usswim.net/Coaches'%20Corner/Freestyle%20Tech...

The day I instituted it into my workout, my stroke count went down to 17-19 right off the bat with a faster time.

I'm now hovering about 18-20 depending on how tired I am, but front quadrant swimming helps me focus on my stroke. Also I tend to do a lot of drills over exaggerating my rotation on ever stroke (i.e. stroke with my right arm I roll over onto my rifght side and vice versa). The biggest thing for me is stroke technique for form and then weight training and consistency to build up power.

2004-09-28 10:15 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Master
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Marietta, Ga
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)

I have found that if I "glide" longer in the water before my breathing stroke, I can reduce my SPL's and not sacrifice on time.  This is useful since it reduces my energy output to travel the same distance in the water, thus saving my strength for the bike/run.  When I get tired in the open water, I will lengthen my glide, where the left arm in outstretched and my right hand is down by my side.  It is momentary, but that little pause gives me time to rest and take advantage of a very efficient position in the water.  I have to precede that glide with a good, strong catch and pull with that right arm so that I have some momentum to carry me through the glide.

I've based this on the principle that lengthening a body in the water will increase its efficiency.  For instance, if you push off the wall with your arms pointed straight out in front of you, you'll go farther by about 10-20% than you will if you push off with your arms at your side.  Increasing the time in the glide position, with one arm outstretched, takes advantage of this streamlined position and will naturally reduce my SPL's.



Edited by Motivated 2004-09-28 10:32 AM


2004-09-28 10:15 AM
in reply to: #66808

Regular
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252525
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
Don't despair anyone that hasn't gotten down to under 20 spl, I am a completely novice swimmer teaching myself with TI and mine has now occasionally hit sub 20 with the same speed I was getting at 25 or 22. I'm still reeeeally slow, but lowering the strokes over time hasn't made me slower. Swimming "golf" has really helped me get a feel for what speed I can go while keeping the same stroke efficiency, I'd suggest anyone try it for fun if nothing else.
2004-09-28 10:22 AM
in reply to: #66808

Regular
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Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
I read in a few places that you should be taking about 1 stroke per second in normal swimming. So if your doing 18 SPL you should be doing it in 18s.

I do some drills trying to slow it down and take fewer strokes but it really makes breathing harder as you need to hold your breath longer.
2004-09-28 10:07 PM
in reply to: #66808

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Master
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Marietta, Ga
Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)

On my swim today, I realized that I gave out incorrect info in my post above...the glide actually takes place after my breathing stroke.  After breathing on my RHS, my left arm does the "power pull"with my right arm extended out in front.  That's when I glide as long as I can maintain momentum before starting the next pull with my right hand.  I counted my strokes in the pool today and when I was fresh, they were between 12 and 14...at the end of the swim when I was very tired (I swam 3600 yards), they were between 16 and 18.

2004-10-16 7:10 AM
in reply to: #66808

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Swim - Strokes Per Length (SPL)
When I first began as a newbie this season the coach at the pool I swim at metioned that "I swam like I was 5 feet tall instead of 6 feet tall", what he meant was that among several problems I had/have with my swim was I didn't glide at all just muscled my way through the swim. At that time my SPL was 27 for a 25 meter pool. It wasn't until after my 3rd race this year did I begin to really work on my technique in the swim. Now my count is down to 22-23 but when working on drills I can achieve 18's I just feel very slow in the water. I know I still have a lot of work to do, my kick is terrible, and my technique falters as I tire. My plan is to continue to work on drills during the winter and increase the number of swims per week to 2-3 instead of my 1-2 as I did this year.
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