General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Body Fat % and Diet Changes Rss Feed  
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2007-08-03 8:45 AM

Subject: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Soooo...I'm not sure that this topic fits 100% in this category, but it's somewhat related to nutrition. I wouldn't necessarily add it to the "weight loss" thread, since I'm already thin by societal standards, or at least don't want to anger those folks over there who are overweight, when I'm a size 0 (I get enough of the whole "eat some cake! You're so skinny" thing - and I DO eat cake and I'm still a size 0)

Which is not really the case. Here's the deal. I'm 5'3", very small frame, size 0-2 pretty naturally. I have a pretty fast metabolism, I can eat like a horse for a tiny girl and I tend to build long, lean muscle (dancer build) as opposed to bulk. Currently, I'm probably at 20% body fat - at least that's what I was measured at 2 years ago and I haven't really changed in size since then. I would LIKE to get to 18% - for my body type, I was told that 18% would be okay and that anything lower would be unhealthy. I was probably closer to that size in college, so I know it's entirely possible for my shape. I eat healthy, and the training has helped build some muscles, but I still have some flab around the middle - which is attributing to the 20% body fat. Thing is, when I was dancing all the time, I didn't feel the need to eat as much as I do now - tri training makes me STARVING. I try to fill up on veggies, etc but I know that complex carbs and protein are necessary. (I used to eat lots of protein, but went VERY light on the carbs). So I don't want to go into a deficit and damage my training because I'm not replenishing carbs - the ones I choose on a daily basis are all of the multigrain variety, so I'm not pounding down the white pasta/bread/rice. The usual suggestion for weight loss is "work out more, eat less" - but I sort of feel like tri training is more "work out more, eat more so you don't bonk". I'm worried that the monster that is my appetite will defeat the purpose even if I kick up the training.


So I guess my question is - how do I drop that last bit of body fat WITHOUT starving myself? Do I cut out some things entirely, like dairy? Build more muscle so I'll burn more fat? (is there even any truth to that anyway?) Work out 3 hours a day 5 days a week? Do I never eat a cookie or french fries again in my life? I don't buy junk food so I don't eat it, but once in awhile, I'll have some chocolate or have a burger and fries, etc because I don't feel as though it's healthy to deprive yourself like that (being a former dancer, I never wanted to become anorexic and always tried to adopt a healthy attitude towards food - a very occasional brownie will not kill you). And I gave up soda in college. Thoughts?


2007-08-03 9:25 AM
in reply to: #912146

Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
I realize in hindsight that probably no one is going to respond to this. I won't take it down on the off-chance that someone does. I just hope that there are a few souls on here who understand the goals of getting as fit as you possible can.

I'm so sick of this whole "love your body just the way God made you" b.s. To some extent, people don't have control over genetics. But I'm pretty sure it's possible for me to lose 2% body fat and be in awesome shape.

PS - I definitely can't afford a trainer, so hiring one is out of the question.

Edited by wurkit_gurl 2007-08-03 9:34 AM
2007-08-03 9:42 AM
in reply to: #912146

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes

I'll respond, but preface it by saying that I'm not an expert and I don't have the same problem as you.

It might be pretty difficult to lose that last bit. Since you are already so light it might be difficult to create enough of a caloric deficit to drop the weight. This is why anyone's last five pounds is the most difficult. To grab some random numbers to illustrate (these are not accurate mathematically, just as an example):

Someone who is 200 lbs might burn 2500 calories a day just sitting around doing nothing, that is what their body needs just to exist at that weight. That means, that person can cut out 500 calories a day, creating a deficit of 3500 calories, and lose a pound a week.

You, on the other hand, might only need 1500 calories, meaning that if you cut out 500 calories a day, you would only be eating 1000, which some call "starvation mode." You might start losing muscle mass, or suffering other problems athletically.  

It is also pretty safe to say that, since you have maintained such an ideal weight, you are pretty good at naturally knowing what your body needs and eating what you need to fuel it. To lose the last bit, I wouldn't try to do it quickly.

Maybe try cutting out just 100-200 calories a day--trying to lose no more than 1/2 lb a week. That's what I'm trying to do right now anyway because, if I set my goal as 1-2 lbs a week, I know that I just end up disappointed and frustrated. I don't know if that means cutting out something entirely for you, or never having a cookie again--probably not. I mean, who wants to live like that? Do you log your calories? If not, I would do so with a program like the one on this site or fitday.com. That will help you gauge where those 100-200 calories could come from. It might be as easy as having some slightly smaller portions, but still eating the same things your normally would.

2007-08-03 9:42 AM
in reply to: #912146

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes

Ooops. Duplicate.



Edited by kaitlinrose 2007-08-03 9:44 AM
2007-08-03 9:46 AM
in reply to: #912146

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
I didn't respond to this because it's really hard to give you advice without more information.  You don't say what proportion of carbs/protein/fat you are eating per day.  How much are you working out in a day?  Are you weight training?
2007-08-03 11:20 AM
in reply to: #912146

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
It sounds like you are doing all the right things to live healthy and happy (everyone needs to indulge a little bit).  Like what has been mentioned the last bit is always the hardest to get rid and will take the most time.  The only thing I can think of based on the information you gave is to make sure that you have a protein source with each meal/snack as it will lead to a greater sensation of fullness and reduce cravings.  Other than that best of luck in getting rid of that last little bit.


2007-08-03 11:58 AM
in reply to: #912231

Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Artemis - 2007-08-03 10:46 AM

I didn't respond to this because it's really hard to give you advice without more information.  You don't say what proportion of carbs/protein/fat you are eating per day.  How much are you working out in a day?  Are you weight training?


I don't weight train because I was told here (and rather vehemently at that) that it's unnecessary for tri-training. With the exception of the last week, just take a look at my logs to see how much I work out normally.

Foodwise, I don't "measure" stuff like that (like I don't keep track of what percent of my lunch was carbs)- I just try to make sure I get carbs and protein at the same meal. Here's a typical day of food for me, to give you an idea - assuming that I am working out in the morning:

pre-workout - Clif bar
after workout - banana
Non-workout days - cereal and a banana
Some workout days (eaten after workout) - smoothie made w/ fat free yogurt, soymilk, banana, frozen blueberries/strawberries
snacks and lunch - multi-grain reduced fat/sodium crackers, piece of fruit or smaller fruit (strawberries, etc), veggies and hummus, fat-free yogurt w/ splenda, nuts (almonds, usually) - or I will make a sandwich on multigrain pita w/ fat free turkey/cheese, spinach, tomato
dinner - chicken/fish/beans/tofu, two kinds of veggies, some sort of carb (pita, or a grain salad, like tabbouli).
Other snack - pb and crackers, fruit, sometimes just tea if I'm not hungry

I eat A LOT of food.

I worry about going too low on carbs because I don't want to start burning off muscle.
2007-08-03 2:37 PM
in reply to: #912146

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Like I said, it seems like you already have a good idea of portion control and giving your body what it needs, but not more. However, if you want to find a place to cut calories, you might just want to cut down a bit on portion sizes. Go for a smaller banana, a little less cereal, a little less yogurt in the smoothie, etc. All of that is easier to gauge if you measure what you are doing now and then figure out where to scale it back. That's what has worked for me. I've never agreed with cutting anything out entirely, just going for smaller portions.
2007-08-14 12:41 PM
in reply to: #912828

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes

Chrissy - I will take a shot at answering this.   If I were you I would continue to work on the "building more muscle" tactic.  If you're training for sprints, you aren't putting in 10 hours a week at the gym and you would probably okay with a strength session or two.  You can do a lot of things at home with small weights or do a class at the gym, if that's an option.  Also, swim/bike/run builds muscle.  Just feel your thighs!  If you've been biking regularly, you will probably feel a difference.

Building muscle will push out the fat.  If you were eating very badly, or had a long way to go, you could probably look at the nutritional aspect too.  But I would guess that the extra exercise would do it for you. 

Finally, I would look into getting a professional body fat testing done in a sports lab or somewhere with a "BodPod".  The caliper method is not super accurate for any one person, depending on a lot of things.  The scale is just not accurate (too many factors).  So, if you talked to a sport exercise professional, they can give you an accurate reading and probably help with some direction.   I did the hydrostatic method at a local gym who had an affiliation with "dunking" service.  And now this same small gym has a BodPod, which I understand is the new standard.  So, I would recommend calling a local gym to ask about body fat test (NOT calipers or hand-held unit that works like the scale).  I also have a friend who went to the local university sports medicine department to get dunked.

2007-08-14 1:26 PM
in reply to: #925446

Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
BikerGrrrl - 2007-08-14 1:41 PM

Chrissy - I will take a shot at answering this.   If I were you I would continue to work on the "building more muscle" tactic.  If you're training for sprints, you aren't putting in 10 hours a week at the gym and you would probably okay with a strength session or two.  You can do a lot of things at home with small weights or do a class at the gym, if that's an option.  Also, swim/bike/run builds muscle.  Just feel your thighs!  If you've been biking regularly, you will probably feel a difference.

Building muscle will push out the fat.  If you were eating very badly, or had a long way to go, you could probably look at the nutritional aspect too.  But I would guess that the extra exercise would do it for you. 

Finally, I would look into getting a professional body fat testing done in a sports lab or somewhere with a "BodPod".  The caliper method is not super accurate for any one person, depending on a lot of things.  The scale is just not accurate (too many factors).  So, if you talked to a sport exercise professional, they can give you an accurate reading and probably help with some direction.   I did the hydrostatic method at a local gym who had an affiliation with "dunking" service.  And now this same small gym has a BodPod, which I understand is the new standard.  So, I would recommend calling a local gym to ask about body fat test (NOT calipers or hand-held unit that works like the scale).  I also have a friend who went to the local university sports medicine department to get dunked.



Thanks - I do think you're right that I should try building some more muscle. I've just been concentrating on the swim/bike/run and really havent' done much else, esp. since it seems to be the general consensus that weight training isn't really a useful part of tri-training. And I know there are exceptions, but I do see the point. (Similarly in dance, they tend to discourage too much weight training because it tends to build more tension than pilates/yoga - bulky ballerinas are less efficient.) Since winter is approaching, I might try to vary my work-outs a bit more; certainly not give up the swim/bike/run, but maybe try to add some more stuff in. We do have various weight classes at the gym, not to mention a ton of machines. Not sure if my gym does the water-dunk-tank thing, but it's a swanky gym, so I'll look into it more.

It's true that I've gotten a little bit more muscle - my arms look a bit less stick-like than they used to They were always toned cuz dance will tone your arms, but now they have a bit more definition - though I will never "bulk up' - not my body type. And my quads are getting a bit more solid too. I've always had rockin' calves, so those are coming back into shape nicely
2007-08-14 1:39 PM
in reply to: #912493

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes

wurkit_gurl - 2007-08-03 12:58 PM  I don't weight train because I was told here (and rather vehemently at that) that it's unnecessary for tri-training. With the exception of the last week, just take a look at my logs to see how much I work out normally. Foodwise, I don't "measure" stuff like that (like I don't keep track of what percent of my lunch was carbs)- I just try to make sure I get carbs and protein at the same meal. Here's a typical day of food for me, to give you an idea - assuming that I am working out in the morning: pre-workout - Clif bar after workout - banana Non-workout days - cereal and a banana Some workout days (eaten after workout) - smoothie made w/ fat free yogurt, soymilk, banana, frozen blueberries/strawberries snacks and lunch - multi-grain reduced fat/sodium crackers, piece of fruit or smaller fruit (strawberries, etc), veggies and hummus, fat-free yogurt w/ splenda, nuts (almonds, usually) - or I will make a sandwich on multigrain pita w/ fat free turkey/cheese, spinach, tomato dinner - chicken/fish/beans/tofu, two kinds of veggies, some sort of carb (pita, or a grain salad, like tabbouli). Other snack - pb and crackers, fruit, sometimes just tea if I'm not hungry I eat A LOT of food. I worry about going too low on carbs because I don't want to start burning off muscle.

As far as weight-lifting, I think that it's not necessary for tri training.  But, your goal is to drop your body fat.  With that goal in mind, weight lifting can be incredibly helpful for you.  You don't have to try to bulk up, but doing more reps with less weight can help you tone your body and build muscle.  Having more muscle will help boost your basal metabolism.

I would also recommend that you try to eat a bit more protein - have a little bit with each meal.  I know that can be important in changing your body fat.  I definitely noticed that eating more protein helped lose some fat (although I have a lot more to lose than you.    ) I don't think you need to cut out carbs, especially because it looks like you are already eating whole grains.



2007-08-29 11:50 AM
in reply to: #925554

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Artemis - 2007-08-14 2:39 PM

wurkit_gurl - 2007-08-03 12:58 PM I don't weight train because I was told here (and rather vehemently at that) that it's unnecessary for tri-training. With the exception of the last week, just take a look at my logs to see how much I work out normally. Foodwise, I don't "measure" stuff like that (like I don't keep track of what percent of my lunch was carbs)- I just try to make sure I get carbs and protein at the same meal. Here's a typical day of food for me, to give you an idea - assuming that I am working out in the morning: pre-workout - Clif bar after workout - banana Non-workout days - cereal and a banana Some workout days (eaten after workout) - smoothie made w/ fat free yogurt, soymilk, banana, frozen blueberries/strawberries snacks and lunch - multi-grain reduced fat/sodium crackers, piece of fruit or smaller fruit (strawberries, etc), veggies and hummus, fat-free yogurt w/ splenda, nuts (almonds, usually) - or I will make a sandwich on multigrain pita w/ fat free turkey/cheese, spinach, tomato dinner - chicken/fish/beans/tofu, two kinds of veggies, some sort of carb (pita, or a grain salad, like tabbouli). Other snack - pb and crackers, fruit, sometimes just tea if I'm not hungry I eat A LOT of food. I worry about going too low on carbs because I don't want to start burning off muscle.

As far as weight-lifting, I think that it's not necessary for tri training. But, your goal is to drop your body fat. With that goal in mind, weight lifting can be incredibly helpful for you. You don't have to try to bulk up, but doing more reps with less weight can help you tone your body and build muscle. Having more muscle will help boost your basal metabolism.

I would also recommend that you try to eat a bit more protein - have a little bit with each meal. I know that can be important in changing your body fat. I definitely noticed that eating more protein helped lose some fat (although I have a lot more to lose than you. ) I don't think you need to cut out carbs, especially because it looks like you are already eating whole grains.

Totally agree with this.  Strength training will increase your metabolism.  If you were to read M&F magazine, they often publish studies that show you can get more fat loss though weight training than aerobic exercise.  Now granted, tri-training isn't "aerobic exercise" per se, but the theory does hold true that weight training combined with a reasonable diet will reduce fat.  When I use to lift exclusively, I went on a protein heavy diet with pretty massive workouts.  I was able to completely lose my love handles in 5 months (and they were quite big at the time).  I did very little if any running, biking or swimming.  It would seem to translate that you could add strength training to a regimen and get the extra bump you are looking for (in addition to confusing your muscles to make them stronger and use more fat).  Just my 2 cents worth. 

2007-08-30 7:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes

Why the worry about such a small % of bodyfat?  There's nothing magical about 18%, nor is is particularly unhealthy to be a bit above or below that.  With bodyfat testing being notoriously inaccurate in the first place, how can you even differentiate between 18 and 20%?

Don't obsess over numbers.  Train, eat right, and your body will take care of itself.

2007-08-30 8:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
I lost 30 lbs and 11% bf since January. All I did was change my eating dramaticly(sp) by eliminating junk, refined flours, regular pop etc and began working out. I always try to have a meal calorie breakdown of 40% carbs 40% protein and 20% fats for the day. I tried to never eat carbs alone and never ate carbs within 4 hours of bedtime. I don't know if the build muscle to burn fat is true however I do know that I weight trained 4 days a week (three day split with one day full body weight training/aerobic class) with one maybe two 30 min cardio sessions a week.

I am certainly not claiming this works for anyone other than me but that was my plan. During my wieght loss I cut my calories by 750 from my recommended daily caloric intake. I learned my caloric intake by having a body mass indicator thingy done at my gym by the sports doc and tracking my calories at Fitday.com.


You have to be very careful with the numbers that non professional bf calculators and bmi indicators can give you. Two months ago I used a bf scale that rated my body fat at 17% and then had it done by my sports Dr. with his machines and the result was around 11%. The # can vary but I beleive it is dangerous to focus on numbers. I started to obsess with weight and %'s when I began my weight loss program and eventually had to simply beleive the fact that every 2 months I had to buy new clothes.
2007-09-19 11:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes

It sounds to me that you are saying you want to be able to keep eating like you are eating and working out like you have been and be 5lbs lighter.   Something needs to change. Whats the old saying about if you keep doing what you've been doing you'll get what you've been getting?  So, Either you have a strict diet, a strict workout schedule or you just be happy that you have a very healthy body as is.   Personally I would go with the latter.  

2007-10-05 9:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Hi Wurkit,

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve. That being said, my suggestion would be to increase your muscle mass by eating slightly more protein and putting in more resistance exercise. I also would cut out most of the fruit (simple sugars) and dairy (sugar again). If you want to drop it fast, cut out grains, replace with vegetables. Pretty drastic, but it does work.


2007-10-09 8:04 AM
in reply to: #994441

Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
pinktrigal - 2007-10-05 10:23 PM

Hi Wurkit,

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve. That being said, my suggestion would be to increase your muscle mass by eating slightly more protein and putting in more resistance exercise. I also would cut out most of the fruit (simple sugars) and dairy (sugar again). If you want to drop it fast, cut out grains, replace with vegetables. Pretty drastic, but it does work.


Just one question - if I cut out fruit and grains, will I be running too low on carbs to fuel workouts? I mean, I guess for a short time it couldn't hurt, I suppose.
2007-10-09 8:21 AM
in reply to: #998100

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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:04 AM

pinktrigal - 2007-10-05 10:23 PM

Hi Wurkit,

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve. That being said, my suggestion would be to increase your muscle mass by eating slightly more protein and putting in more resistance exercise. I also would cut out most of the fruit (simple sugars) and dairy (sugar again). If you want to drop it fast, cut out grains, replace with vegetables. Pretty drastic, but it does work.


Just one question - if I cut out fruit and grains, will I be running too low on carbs to fuel workouts? I mean, I guess for a short time it couldn't hurt, I suppose.


My personal experience is that I can get all the carbs I need from vegetable sources, without resorting to the grains and fruit. I eat a lot of raw veggies, and I supplement with Vega (vegetable protein shake). I do eat fruit occassionally, but it is more of a treat than anything. If I am heading out for a training session and I feel like I need some extra energy, I will eat a little crystallized ginger, or some honey for an added kick. Try it, and see what works for you.
2007-10-09 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
I have a question. If you change your diet to lose 5 pounds, can you then go back to your old diet without gaining it right back? I'm bouncing between 172-178 & wonder if it's worth the dieting effort to get under 170, or if I'll have to keep hungry to stay there. It seems that now, the lighter I get, the harder it is to stay here & the faster the weight comes back.
2007-10-09 3:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Schrup - 2007-10-09 1:36 PM

I have a question. If you change your diet to lose 5 pounds, can you then go back to your old diet without gaining it right back? I'm bouncing between 172-178 & wonder if it's worth the dieting effort to get under 170, or if I'll have to keep hungry to stay there. It seems that now, the lighter I get, the harder it is to stay here & the faster the weight comes back.


Without knowing your current height and body composition it is a little bit difficult to advise you. Chances are if you go back to your old eating habits without increasing your activity, then yes, you will gain weight.
2007-10-09 5:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
I had the similar question about 10 months ago. I was being healthy (exercise and diet) but I wanted to cut out the last bit of Body Fat (for me it was going from 12% to 9%). I consulted a nutrition expert about it and we found it to be my sugar intake. I was not taking a lot in actually, but by drastically cutting back simple sugar, I saw the body fat just dissapear.

Basically, the only simple sugars I started to take in were from fruits. And I made sure that I always had those with proteins.

So FOR ME - it was all about simple sugar and the only sugars I allowed myself were in combination with protein.

Just my experience


2007-10-09 6:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 3:40 PM
Without knowing your current height and body composition it is a little bit difficult to advise you. Chances are if you go back to your old eating habits without increasing your activity, then yes, you will gain weight.


I'll try to clarify. This is a rough estimation for my example. I'm a 42 year old male, have recently lost 35 pounds from exercise & a diet that a nutritionist laid out for me. I am currently 5'10" 175lbs. While losing weight, I tried to limit myself to around 2500 calories daily. Since reaching & somewhat stalling at my target weight, I have upped my calorie intake to closer to 3K & seem to be OK.

My question is, if I lose 5-10 more pounds, will it be exponentially more difficult to maintain that weight than it will be to maintain at my current weight? I wonder if the "water seeks it's own level" principle applies because of my age. I want to avoid diminishing returns. I've only been at this for 5 months.

My current weight is comfortable, but the OP got me wondering if I should put on the final push to see how low I can get with another month of dieting. When I am done with weight lose, I'm to return to my nutritionist for another diet adjustment. I want to be sure of the maximum daily calorie intake I can get away with without gaining weight, because she's already indicated that she wants to cut my daily calorie intake due to my reduced mass. I love to eat & hate being hungry, so this doesn't sit well with me. If I can maintain my current wieght of 172-177, my current activity level, & my current calorie intake of about 2800 a day, all will be good.
2007-10-09 7:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Body Fat % and Diet Changes
Schrup - 2007-10-09 7:22 PM

pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 3:40 PM
Without knowing your current height and body composition it is a little bit difficult to advise you. Chances are if you go back to your old eating habits without increasing your activity, then yes, you will gain weight.


I'll try to clarify. This is a rough estimation for my example. I'm a 42 year old male, have recently lost 35 pounds from exercise & a diet that a nutritionist laid out for me. I am currently 5'10" 175lbs. While losing weight, I tried to limit myself to around 2500 calories daily. Since reaching & somewhat stalling at my target weight, I have upped my calorie intake to closer to 3K & seem to be OK.

My question is, if I lose 5-10 more pounds, will it be exponentially more difficult to maintain that weight than it will be to maintain at my current weight? I wonder if the "water seeks it's own level" principle applies because of my age. I want to avoid diminishing returns. I've only been at this for 5 months.

My current weight is comfortable, but the OP got me wondering if I should put on the final push to see how low I can get with another month of dieting. When I am done with weight lose, I'm to return to my nutritionist for another diet adjustment. I want to be sure of the maximum daily calorie intake I can get away with without gaining weight, because she's already indicated that she wants to cut my daily calorie intake due to my reduced mass. I love to eat & hate being hungry, so this doesn't sit well with me. If I can maintain my current wieght of 172-177, my current activity level, & my current calorie intake of about 2800 a day, all will be good.


Shrup,
Totally your decision at this point my friend. It will not be any more difficult to lose the weight, it is the same battle you have already been winning. You have two options if you wish to lose the weight, eat less or increase your activity. If you aren't willing to do either of these, then I would say be happy with what you have accomplished
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