"Legal" bike drafting - is it really legal? (Page 2)

jmickle11 - 2007-08-08 3:33 PM I'm all for the rules but the drafting one kind of gets to me a little. I refuse to slow down if someone passes me. I'll do my best to stay out of his/her draft but I'm just not inclined to slow down to do so.

Motivated - 2007-08-09 6:19 AM

Think of how much money they'd save on motorcycles.

JohnnyKay - 2007-08-09 8:19 AM

And how much they'd spend on higher insurance premiums.

JohnnyKay - 2007-08-09 9:17 AM

If you are passed, you have to drop out of the draft zone.  It may be tough, but if you don't do it you are breaking the rules.  Legal drafting is OK.  Not dropping back after being passed is not.

Motivated - 2007-08-09 7:19 AM

This is probably one of the most abused rules in triathlon.  No matter how long or short the race, you'll always see a pack of folks drafting one another.  I think the USAT should just get rid of the whole mess by making drafting legal.  Let the bike portion of the race look like a real bike race, a la the Olympics.

Think of how much money they'd save on motorcycles.

jmickle11 - 2007-08-09 8:42 AM I fully understand this however I just don't feel like I should have to slow down and effect my overall time....I understand the rules and I think they are a bit flawed but I also think that it would be very difficult to have a rule that was perfect.

Motivated - 2007-08-09 6:19 AM

This is probably one of the most abused rules in triathlon. No matter how long or short the race, you'll always see a pack of folks drafting one another. I think the USAT should just get rid of the whole mess by making drafting legal. Let the bike portion of the race look like a real bike race, a la the Olympics.

Think of how much money they'd save on motorcycles.

jmickle11 - 2007-08-09 8:42 AM I fully understand this however I just don't feel like I should have to slow down and effect my overall time....I understand the rules and I think they are a bit flawed but I also think that it would be very difficult to have a rule that was perfect.

LaurenSU02 - 2007-08-09 8:46 AM

Leave the ITU races for those that know how to race. It's annoying enough being out on a bike course with people that barely know how to ride a bike (i.e., can't hold a line, brake ridiculously, ride to the left, etc.). The last thing I need to is to get caught in a pack with people that have no bike handling skills.

LaurenSU02 - 2007-08-09 9:46 AM

Leave the ITU races for those that know how to race. It's annoying enough being out on a bike course with people that barely know how to ride a bike (i.e., can't hold a line, brake ridiculously, ride to the left, etc.). The last thing I need to is to get caught in a pack with people that have no bike handling skills.

Motivated - 2007-08-09 6:19 AM

This is probably one of the most abused rules in triathlon.  No matter how long or short the race, you'll always see a pack of folks drafting one another.  I think the USAT should just get rid of the whole mess by making drafting legal.  Let the bike portion of the race look like a real bike race, a la the Olympics.

Think of how much money they'd save on motorcycles.

mndiver - 2007-08-08 4:13 PM Sure it's legal, but doesn't it go against the spirit of the rules? 

run4yrlif - 2007-08-09 10:52 AM

I don't think so. Charlie Crawford is the head USAT official, and I've heard him speak on this subject lots of times. He says when he sees racers slingshoting, he quickly moves on to other athletes, because he knows those people know and follow the rules.

newleaf - 2007-08-09 10:17 AM

yes, but he is there to enforce the letter of the rules, not the spirit. It doesn't seem to me that slingshoting keeps with the spirit of the rules.

The paragraph in the USAT rulebook before getting into the specific rules themselves has a line...

"While on the cycling course, participants shall not work together to improve performance, efficiency, or position by teamwork or other joint conduct."

Now, go back and read JeepFleeb's first post in this thread...

"We did the first run together and started the bike at the same time. One of us takes the lead, the other is 7 meters back. The 2nd person uses all 15 seconds to pass as close as possible and the 1st person drops back to 7 meters. 30 seconds to a minute later the process starts again and keeps going until we get back to transition.We had the two fastest bike splits that day by a good 90 seconds and only did a fraction of the work that would have required on our own."

I don't see how someone can say with a straight face, that slingshoting keeps with the spirit of the rules.

amiine - 2007-08-09 11:27 AM as long as they stay out of the draft zone and complete passing within the time, and the rider been passed drops back, then IT IS LEGAL!!!

per your reasoning, RDs should find venues close to traffic in which slowe riders could stay on the right lane and fast riders pass WIDE open on the left so no one gets any sort drafting benefit...

newleaf - 2007-08-09 11:29 AM You will note I am talking about the spirit of the rules.

S-P-I-R-I-T

not the letter. 

amiine - 2007-08-09 11:38 AM

Re-read my post. You will note I am talking about the spirit of the rules.

>>> go nuts! keep on racing based on how you interpret the S-P-I-R-I-T of the rules while the rest do so based on the actual rules; that will allow you to keep on complaining about how the fast riders were cheating the s-p-i-r-i-t of the rules and that’s why they beat you

amiine - 2007-08-09 9:38 AM

Re-read my post.  You will note I am talking about the spirit of the rules.

>>> go nuts! keep on racing based on how you interpret the S-P-I-R-I-T of the rules while the rest do so based on the actual rules; that will allow you to keep on complaining about how the fast riders were cheating the s-p-i-r-i-t of the rules and that’s why they beat you

newleaf - 2007-08-09 9:44 AM

The reason they beat me has nothing to do with slingshotting, and everything to do with the fact that I'm slow and they're fast. 

They'd beat me whether or not they slingshotted.

ScottoNM - 2007-08-09 10:47 AM

Well, based on the ACTUAL rules, as newleaf posted:

"participants shall not work together to improve performance, efficiency, or position by teamwork or other joint conduct"

So WORKING TOGETHER violates the ACTUAL rules that you are such a fan of.

therefore, slingshotting around people on your way past them is legal.

WORKING TOGETHER with another competitor to take turns slingshotting to IMPROVE PERFORMANCE is AGAINST THE ACTUAL RULES.  Even if you are obeying the 15-sec and drop-back rules.

So answer that, Mr "Actual Rules"

 

newleaf - 2007-08-09 11:17 AM

yes, but he is there to enforce the letter of the rules, not the spirit. It doesn't seem to me that slingshoting keeps with the spirit of the rules.

The paragraph in the USAT rulebook before getting into the specific rules themselves has a line...

"While on the cycling course, participants shall not work together to improve performance, efficiency, or position by teamwork or other joint conduct."

Now, go back and read JeepFleeb's first post in this thread...

"We did the first run together and started the bike at the same time. One of us takes the lead, the other is 7 meters back. The 2nd person uses all 15 seconds to pass as close as possible and the 1st person drops back to 7 meters. 30 seconds to a minute later the process starts again and keeps going until we get back to transition.We had the two fastest bike splits that day by a good 90 seconds and only did a fraction of the work that would have required on our own."

I don't see how someone can say with a straight face, that slingshoting keeps with the spirit of the rules.

newleaf - 2007-08-09 10:44 AM

The reason they beat me has nothing to do with slingshotting, and everything to do with the fact that I'm slow and they're fast. 

They'd beat me whether or not they slingshotted.