Supreme Court and voter fraud (Page 2)

not a very convincing argument for your point but its truthfulness cannot be denied!

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Isn't the Supreme Court being asked in this instance to overturn existing laws that require voters to provide photo ID to vote. Certainly the Republicans aren't driving this.

I see nothing wrong with wanting my vote actually count. How can I feel  confident in a voting system that can negate my vote by someone using dead Uncle Joe's voter reg. card? I think I have earned the right to be assured something like that won't happen.

The Senator from New York is proposing free health care for all of us. She has also put in there that it will be mandatory for all Americans to register for and have health care. How in the heck are we going to do that? Who is going to drive our "too poor to leave the house for their own good" to the place where that is going to happen? Where is the public outrage that she make such a  demand on our downtrodden and elderly citizens? 

There isn't one cited case of an illegally cast vote among these examples. Most of these examples are about voter registration, not actual voting irregularities. One article is about absentee ballots. Don't see how a voter ID is relevant there.

One interesting document included in the list though, is the second link from the Brennan Center. The linked document is entitled "Analysis of the September 15, 2005 Voter Fraud Report Submitted to the New Jersey Attorney General". The report is called "...a flawed partisan document stirring up the specter of voter fraud by listing thousands of allegedly illegitimate voters." The lists of "illegal" voters given to the NJ AG are called "substantially flawed, and must not be used to interfere with New Jersey citizens’ right to vote."

It's a good document and is great example of how many accusations of "voter fraud" don't stand up to close examination.

Those links were a mere sampling from about 30 seconds of searching.....
I'm sure I could come up with many more if I was willing to spend some time looking.

See below for excerpts from each link:

I completely agree with you, which is why I am bothered by the possibility of a vote being undermined/negated by improper voting practices and bogus votes being cast.

I agree that there need to be mechanisms in place to ensure that all legitimate voters receive the assistance necessary to ensure that they have the proper ID, and are correctly registered to vote.

It should not be that difficult to get people an photo ID without becoming a hardship...

This issue was taken up by the Georgia General Assembly a few years ago and has been in the court system ever since.  I recall being present in the House when the opposition spoke against voter id on the grounds of the voter fraud myth. 

I was shocked at the statistics he compiled from the Secretary of State's and the Attorney General's office.  If I recall correctly, less than 5% of voter fraud claims (in GA) actual have enough merit to open an investigative inquiry.  Less that 1% of THOSE lead to an inquiry.  And less than .1% of those ever lead to a discrepency or issue (most often problem--people voting in the wrong precinct/county).  Legal action rarely happens.

To those who argue the it would create a more credible system, I ask where are the safe guards on provisional, out-of state or oversea ballots?  How about concern over electronic voting and moving away from paper receipts?  To me those are much larger concerns and loopholes. 

Again, the cut-n-paste is related to voter registration drives, not voter fraud ie. illegally cast votes. You gotta read this stuff before posting it. Your original list includes a very good document by a respected law group that counters the argument you're trying to make.

I think you missed it again Jimbo. Are you of the opinion that there is no such thing as voter fraud in our country? Are you saying don't have a problem with voter fraud as long as it does not disenfranchise any voters out there and the votes go to the Democrats?

I was not trying to voice an opinion either way on health care in our country. I was just wondering if a double standard exists. Same party that opposes identifying who we have voting seems to have no problem forcing the entire country to enroll in a healthcare plan. Just how in the heck are we going to make ALL of our citizens get enrolled in healthcare when we can't get the very citizens it will most likely benefit the most to leave their houses and get something as simple as a photo ID. Where is the public outrage over recent passport changes. US citizens are now required by law to get a passport to visit Mexico and Canada. My word, I can't seem to find the time to get a passport so I can go on vacation!!! I better call the ACLU and get them on the case. They don't care because it does nothing to further their political cause.

Leaving the door open so people can abuse our system is irresponsible.

First for those of you that think voter fraud is not a problem you are wrong.  I am an election Judge and every election I have the problem of someone or several someone’s coming in to vote that tell me their address is wrong on the card.  If the address is wrong than they may be in the wrong precinct and in an election where the difference is just a few votes this can change a local election.  The next issue is voter cards are sent to people based on the address they used to register with and as long as they are deliverable they are put on the voter role, now just suppose a parent dies and the new voter card arrives after that person has died and the children get the card you tell me what stops them from using it hint nothing.  One of my first elections I worked I had a lady come in to vote it had been years since she had voted and had to be thing I have no concerns about the difficulty of voting and I think it should be less convenient not more (with the acceptation of handicapped access) if you are to lazy to stand in line for 30 minutes to an hour (I never had a line like that) than you probably don’t have a clue who to vote for anyway.  I can’t begin to tell you how many voters I have that vote based on how the name sounds, position on the ballot, Republican or democrat cause the other side are just a bunch of crooks no sir I say if we made more of these people unconvinced than perhaps we would be better off without their vote. walked thru the process no problem so far, the problem was as she watched the other worker stamp voted next to her name on the voter role she saw her mother in-laws name was marked voted as well and was taken aback it seems her mother in law had been dead for many years.  Someone had been voting for her all this time in early voting.  I have heard stories that I cannot confirm of nurses taking  the early voting ballots at the nursing homes and filling them out and sending them in so let’s see I vote one time and the nurse votes 20 times.  The real legal problem with voter IDS is the charging for the ID if the state charges for the voter ID than that will amount to a poll tax and is un-constitutional so IMHO voter picture ID’s are very needed but the voter cannot be directly charged for it.  I could say a lot more on this issue but I am tired

1.  Your argument does nothing to prove voter fraud or the need for voter id.  The crux of the argument against voter id legislation is that 99.9% of reports are hearsay and never stand up in court.  In most cases, 'voter fraud' is someone voting in the wrong precinct.  I am curious, since you are an election judge, how many of the voter fraud activities that you have witnessed have been proven or lead to charges?  And does that number substantiate a need to overhaul the system by instituting a voter id policy?  I think you might offer an interesting perspective to the discussion

2.  Georgia allows FREE voter identification and it is still tied up in the court system.

Voter Fraud - is depant on the intent of the voter.  So when in Seattle they have 8 dead people voting ...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/206969_dead07.html

.. but we don't call it fraud because we "don't know their intent."  Now admittedly it seams these cases were all from absentee ballots.  So a voter ID card would have done no good.  But it does show possible methods of HOW to "get away with" voter fruad.

Because the term "Voter fraud" is so specific, cases where there was no concerted effort to

So instead of being called fraud, which is really what it is, it is being called voting "irregularities" or something equally lame and harmless sounding. 

So what is the harm?  If the vote is turned on 8 votes, and certified then the wrong person is elected.  Where was it I read, that 1 person voting in each of the different precincts allowed Lincoln to win over Douglas. 

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2005/09/dead-people-voting-in-new-jersey.html

Now I think the above article is an opinion piece, and I would LOVE to find a follow up from someone to see what they found. 

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061029/NEWS01/610290381/1006/NEWS01

Another article talking about dead people voting, with an interesting excerpt. 

One address in the Bronx was listed as the home for as many as 191 registered voters who had died. The address is 5901 Palisade Ave., site of the Hebrew Home for the Aged.

Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than a 4-to-1 margin. The reason: Most of them came from Democrat-dominated New York City, where higher population produced more matches.

So maybe that is one reason why Republicans are a little more worried about it than democrats.

I like this quote, and I think it is worth closing this post on it.