Other Resources My Cup of Joe » "great pitching beats great hitting" Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
2007-10-05 8:30 AM

User image

Sneaky Slow
8694
500020001000500100252525
Herndon, VA,
Subject: "great pitching beats great hitting"

You always hear this phrase bandied about, especially in the playoffs.  Perhaps it is just me, but this phrase doesn't make much sense to me.  Or phrases like "it all comes down to pitching in the playoffs."

When Beckett shut down the Angels the other night, that was great pitching.  It was also bad hitting on the part of the Angels.  So great pitching beat bad hitting.

Is there ever a case when you have great pitching by one team, and great hitting by the opposing team?  It seems that you can't have both.  Doesn't great pitching beget bad hitting?



2007-10-05 8:58 AM
in reply to: #993108

User image

Resident Curmudgeon
25290
50005000500050005000100100252525
The Road Back
Gold member
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"
Maybe it should read "great pitching beats great hitters"?
2007-10-05 9:01 AM
in reply to: #993108

User image

Champion
8540
50002000100050025
the colony texas
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"

I'm thinking of when the diamondbacks beat the yankees in the world series with basically schilling and randy johnson.. those two ptichers basically won the series for them and I thought the yankees had some great hitters that year..

I was living in cleveland when they got to the WS against the braves.. that was the year that they were an offensive juggernuat..  great pitching silenced the bats there.

My biggest grip in the indians braves series was maddox... when they would show home plate with an overhead view his pitches were over a foot off the plate on the outside but were constantly called strikes, the hitters never readjusted to the ump's strike zone

2007-10-05 9:06 AM
in reply to: #993108

User image

COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"

I don’t particularly follow baseball, but I followed the 2005 White Sox enough to know that against the Angels in the playoffs their pitching staff pulled off three straight complete games to close the door on that series.  That was impressive.

2007-10-05 9:18 AM
in reply to: #993161

User image

Sneaky Slow
8694
500020001000500100252525
Herndon, VA,
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"
Gaarryy - 2007-10-05 10:01 AM

I'm thinking of when the diamondbacks beat the yankees in the world series with basically schilling and randy johnson.. those two ptichers basically won the series for them and I thought the yankees had some great hitters that year..

Even being a Yankees fan that I am, the 2001 Series had to be one of the most exhilarating World Series ever, from the two 9th-inning homeruns by the Yanks in the Bronx, Soriano hitting an HR in the 9th to put the Yanks up in Game 7... to Rivera's throwing error and subsequent hit by Gonzalez to win it in the bottom of the inning. Great stuff. I agree that Johnson and Schilling won them the Series that year.

I remember watching Game 7 that year with my fiancee.... Gonzalez hit that ball, it went into the outfield, I didn't need to see any more... I switched off the TV and went outside. I came back in about 5 minutes later, and she was like, "well, don't you want to make sure they lost?" Fine. I switched on the TV, the sound came on before the picture, and I heard Freddie Mercury singing "We Are The Champions," and the TV was promptly switched off.

Still, a great World Series that year.



Edited by newleaf 2007-10-05 9:19 AM
2007-10-05 9:41 AM
in reply to: #993108

User image

Master
4101
20002000100
Denver
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"
A great pitcher can negate nine of the other teams players. A great hitter will only have a chance to be great four or five times a game.


2007-10-05 9:52 AM
in reply to: #993230

User image

Sneaky Slow
8694
500020001000500100252525
Herndon, VA,
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"

drewb8 - 2007-10-05 10:41 AM A great pitcher can negate nine of the other teams players. A great hitter will only have a chance to be great four or five times a game.

That is an excellent way to look at it. 

2007-10-05 6:09 PM
in reply to: #993254

User image

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: "great pitching beats great hitting"

(Yankees up 1-0 in the bottom of the 5th as I start this )

I've been thinking about this question since I read in a couple of hours ago. Couldn't get it outta my head.

I'd say great pitching beats great hitting. But who knows.

One thing to consider is the level of the other team's other discipline.

For example, assume one team has great hitting and average pitching. The other team has great pitching and average hitting. So great pitching is going to go against great hitting, while in the same game average pitching is going to go against average hitting.

So then the question is which discipline has the bigger edge. Is the edge between great batting vs average batting higher or lower than the edge between great pitching and average pitching.

So take the 2007 year team stats .

For defense/pitching

The best ERA was 3.70 by San Diego

The median ERA was 4.44

The edge between the best and the median is .74 per nine innings

The best TRA (total run average) was 4.05 by Boston

The median TRA was 4.74

The edge is also .74

----

For offense/batting

The best ERA based on RBIs is 5.73 by the Yankees

The median is 4.51

For great hitting vs average hitting the edge is 1.22

The TRA based on total runs scored is 5.79 also by the Yankees

The median is 4.75

The edge is 1.04

-----

So the earned run batting edge is 1.22

The earned run pitching edge is .74

So great batting has a .48 run edge over great pitching based on earned runs for the total year.

The total run batting edge is 1.04

The total run pitching edge is .74

So great batting has a .30 run edge over great pitching based on total runs for the total year.

 

Probably made a mistake or made a wrong assumption here somewhere, but it seems that in 2007, great hitting beat great pitching.

 

(Andy Pettitte got out of trouble in the 5th, Yankees still up 1-0 )



Edited by dontracy 2007-10-05 6:24 PM
New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » "great pitching beats great hitting" Rss Feed