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2007-10-09 8:59 AM

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Subject: Strength training: does it add body weight???
Hi folks,
I am starting to follow an off season tri plan from this website and it is integrating strength training.
I always try to keep low bodyweight because I mainly race for running.
Don't you think that strength training could add some muscles weight which is useless for running races?
Any link to other related threads?
Ciao
FN


Edited by Plissken74 2007-10-09 9:00 AM


2007-10-09 9:16 AM
in reply to: #998213

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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

There are differing camps on the benefits of weight training as it relates to tris (or really any endurance sport).

My view is that unless you have some non-tri reason for doing weights, you are unlikely to derive any meaningful benefits from it.  So just go swim, bike & run.  You can do "strength" workouts in each sport that will have the added benefit of specificity--so you'll build the muscles you actually need.  Sounds like that's been what you've done in the past with just running.  I'd stick with that.

And, yes, there are numerous threads about weight training where you can see us argue in circles about this issue if you want.   

2007-10-09 9:24 AM
in reply to: #998254

Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 10:16 AM

There are differing camps on the benefits of weight training as it relates to tris (or really any endurance sport).

My view is that unless you have some non-tri reason for doing weights, you are unlikely to derive any meaningful benefits from it.  So just go swim, bike & run.  You can do "strength" workouts in each sport that will have the added benefit of specificity--so you'll build the muscles you actually need.  Sounds like that's been what you've done in the past with just running.  I'd stick with that.

And, yes, there are numerous threads about weight training where you can see us argue in circles about this issue if you want.   


Yup, lots of people here hate weight training. There is a book that some people on this board like called "the Triathlete's Training Bible" - it prescribes some light weight training during certain phases of the year (if you plan out a whole year), and the exercises are tri-specific and there aren't that many of them, so you're not doing all sorts of unnecessary stuff. I think if you're a newbie to the other two sports, it might be beneficial to build a good base and strength training might help (ie, you use some different muscles swimming than you do running)- I've had it suggested to me by others on here. Maybe take a look at it to get some ideas?

Muscle weighs more than fat because it's denser. But it depends on your body type. If you're all lean muscle and no fat, you're not going to be a heifer. Some people bulk up more.
2007-10-09 9:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
Plissken74 - 2007-10-09 8:59 AM

Hi folks,
I am starting to follow an off season tri plan from this website and it is integrating strength training.
I always try to keep low bodyweight because I mainly race for running.
Don't you think that strength training could add some muscles weight which is useless for running races?
Any link to other related threads?
Ciao
FN


At the level of weight training you would probably do, no you wouldn't gain any weight that would significantly impact your running speed. It may in fact do the opposite - boost your metabolism and help you more efficiently lean out. You likely don't need to do much, if any, weight training on your lower body. You should however do a little something on your upper body since that part is not trained as extensively. Depending on your training levels through out off-season, 2-3 days of light to medium intensity weight training should be sufficient. Concentrate on maintaining a medium level of challenge with 3 sets of 12-15 reps per exercise. Avoid a program where you do 6-8 reps at max weight or you will add bulk.
2007-10-09 9:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 10:24 AM  Yup, lots of people here hate weight training. 

No, they don't hate it at all, they just don't see any value in it for their training.  There's a big difference there ........

2007-10-09 9:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

Yup, lots of people here hate weight training.

Please don't start this.  I don't "hate" weight training.  I find it unnecessary for triathlon performance.  And doing it would take away from time I could spend swimming, biking & running which will have far greater benefits given MY goals.

Note:  Maybe this wasn't directed at me.  But in that case, please don't quote me in response to the OP.



2007-10-09 9:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
I could not imagine not doing some form of weight training to help my tri work, but I understand everyone is different. To me, functional full body workouts with a focus on balance and core strength are a great addition to tri training.
I recommend Verstegan's Core Endurance book or program off of coreperformance.com

2007-10-09 9:40 AM
in reply to: #998324

Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
indygreg - 2007-10-09 10:38 AM

I could not imagine not doing some form of weight training to help my tri work, but I understand everyone is different. To me, functional full body workouts with a focus on balance and core strength are a great addition to tri training.
I recommend Verstegan's Core Endurance book or program off of coreperformance.com



Core training is definitely the one thing that NO ONE should skip, regardless of their opinion on weight training. Hugely important...

Edited by wurkit_gurl 2007-10-09 9:41 AM
2007-10-09 9:41 AM
in reply to: #998213

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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
I noticed that my running form improved immensely when I started on weights to tone up my upper body - and therefore increased my running speed.  However, I don't train to bulk up, just to tone.
2007-10-09 9:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

Please read:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/str&end.htm

And then peruse the works of our brothers and sisters over on Slowtwitch (many high level coaches and athletes):

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1513414;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;



Edited by Daremo 2007-10-09 9:47 AM
2007-10-09 9:45 AM
in reply to: #998334

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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:40 AM
indygreg - 2007-10-09 10:38 AM I could not imagine not doing some form of weight training to help my tri work, but I understand everyone is different. To me, functional full body workouts with a focus on balance and core strength are a great addition to tri training. I recommend Verstegan's Core Endurance book or program off of coreperformance.com
Core training is definitely the one thing that NO ONE should skip, regardless of their opinion on weight training. Hugely important...

I agree.  I work my core everytime I swim, bike & run. 



2007-10-09 9:59 AM
in reply to: #998348

Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 10:45 AM

wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:40 AM
indygreg - 2007-10-09 10:38 AM I could not imagine not doing some form of weight training to help my tri work, but I understand everyone is different. To me, functional full body workouts with a focus on balance and core strength are a great addition to tri training. I recommend Verstegan's Core Endurance book or program off of coreperformance.com
Core training is definitely the one thing that NO ONE should skip, regardless of their opinion on weight training. Hugely important...

I agree.  I work my core everytime I swim, bike & run. 



Oh, for Pete's sake...

Doing abs is certainly not going to hurt, as apparently weight training might. End of story.
2007-10-09 10:02 AM
in reply to: #998279

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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:24 AM
JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 10:16 AM

There are differing camps on the benefits of weight training as it relates to tris (or really any endurance sport).

My view is that unless you have some non-tri reason for doing weights, you are unlikely to derive any meaningful benefits from it.  So just go swim, bike & run.  You can do "strength" workouts in each sport that will have the added benefit of specificity--so you'll build the muscles you actually need.  Sounds like that's been what you've done in the past with just running.  I'd stick with that.

And, yes, there are numerous threads about weight training where you can see us argue in circles about this issue if you want.   

Yup, lots of people here hate weight training. There is a book that some people on this board like called "the Triathlete's Training Bible" - it prescribes some light weight training during certain phases of the year (if you plan out a whole year), and the exercises are tri-specific and there aren't that many of them, so you're not doing all sorts of unnecessary stuff. I think if you're a newbie to the other two sports, it might be beneficial to build a good base and strength training might help (ie, you use some different muscles swimming than you do running)- I've had it suggested to me by others on here. Maybe take a look at it to get some ideas? Muscle weighs more than fat because it's denser. But it depends on your body type. If you're all lean muscle and no fat, you're not going to be a heifer. Some people bulk up more.

Hate? hardly. let's just say we haven't drunk the cool-aid. BTW, just because a book contains the word bible it doesn’t make it the ultimate training authority, in fact the more I learn about tri training the less I agree with many things suggested in that book.

Furthermore, beginners with the interest in improving in triathlons would gain better/faster results by just s/b/r as they biggest limiter will be lack of aerobic base and specificity. If anything, seasoned athletes with many many years of base training under their belts ‘might’ benefit with a strength training program. (Notice ST does not equal to weight lifting)

To the OP – it depends on what type of strength training and how much are you doing. If you focus on muscle hypertrophy well yes you will gain muscle and strength not related to tri. If you add plyometrics to your tri training it might benefit your running economy for instance. If you do sport specific strength training such as hill repeats, you will gain specific endurance performance

2007-10-09 10:07 AM
in reply to: #998376

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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:59 AM
JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 10:45 AM

wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:40 AM
indygreg - 2007-10-09 10:38 AM I could not imagine not doing some form of weight training to help my tri work, but I understand everyone is different. To me, functional full body workouts with a focus on balance and core strength are a great addition to tri training. I recommend Verstegan's Core Endurance book or program off of coreperformance.com
Core training is definitely the one thing that NO ONE should skip, regardless of their opinion on weight training. Hugely important...

I agree.  I work my core everytime I swim, bike & run. 

Oh, for Pete's sake... Doing abs is certainly not going to hurt, as apparently weight training might. End of story.

And where did I say that it would?  I agreed that the core was very important.  Also note that "core" is not just "abs".

 

To the OP:  Forget about searching for other threads.  Appears you'll get to watch it "live" here.  

2007-10-09 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
indygreg - 2007-10-09 10:38 AM

I could not imagine not doing some form of weight training to help my tri work, but I understand everyone is different. To me, functional full body workouts with a focus on balance and core strength are a great addition to tri training.
I recommend Verstegan's Core Endurance book or program off of coreperformance.com



I agree with Greg. Core strength is very important in any endurance sport. I reccommend doing stability ball training. In fact, I got rid of my office chair, and I sit on the stability ball all day. Helps with the core strength and posture. Not to mention the funny looks I get during business meetings
2007-10-09 10:10 AM
in reply to: #998390

Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
amiine - 2007-10-09 11:02 AM

wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 9:24 AM
JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 10:16 AM

There are differing camps on the benefits of weight training as it relates to tris (or really any endurance sport).

My view is that unless you have some non-tri reason for doing weights, you are unlikely to derive any meaningful benefits from it.  So just go swim, bike & run.  You can do "strength" workouts in each sport that will have the added benefit of specificity--so you'll build the muscles you actually need.  Sounds like that's been what you've done in the past with just running.  I'd stick with that.

And, yes, there are numerous threads about weight training where you can see us argue in circles about this issue if you want.   

Yup, lots of people here hate weight training. There is a book that some people on this board like called "the Triathlete's Training Bible" - it prescribes some light weight training during certain phases of the year (if you plan out a whole year), and the exercises are tri-specific and there aren't that many of them, so you're not doing all sorts of unnecessary stuff. I think if you're a newbie to the other two sports, it might be beneficial to build a good base and strength training might help (ie, you use some different muscles swimming than you do running)- I've had it suggested to me by others on here. Maybe take a look at it to get some ideas? Muscle weighs more than fat because it's denser. But it depends on your body type. If you're all lean muscle and no fat, you're not going to be a heifer. Some people bulk up more.

Hate? hardly. let's just say we haven't drunk the cool-aid. BTW, just because a book contains the word bible it doesn’t make it the ultimate training authority, in fact the more I learn about tri training the less I agree with many things suggested in that book.

Furthermore, beginners with the interest in improving in triathlons would gain better/faster results by just s/b/r as they biggest limiter will be lack of aerobic base and specificity. If anything, seasoned athletes with many many years of base training under their belts ‘might’ benefit with a strength training program. (Notice ST does not equal to weight lifting)

To the OP – it depends on what type of strength training and how much are you doing. If you focus on muscle hypertrophy well yes you will gain muscle and strength not related to tri. If you add plyometrics to your tri training it might benefit your running economy for instance. If you do sport specific strength training such as hill repeats, you will gain specific endurance performance



I didn't say the book was the ultimate authority. It was merely a suggestion - that's what we're here to do, right?. And others on here have suggested it as well, so it's not as if I found it on the street in a gutter somewhere. Point is, it gave a few specific exercises to work certain muscles - I said "check it out for ideas", not "plan your whole training regime according to this book!". I am not following the book to the letter, by any means. But it's a lot better than trying to wing it completely on my own. I use books, stuff people suggest on here, etc and see what works. I can't afford a coach, so I have no other choice, really.

But I'm sorry if I spoke out of turn. I was going from the vantage point of one newbie to another athlete at least less seasoned in biking and swimming - the OP didn't say whether or not they were already awesome at both, but let's just assume they're not already a pro. Just because you're a great runner does not mean you're already an advanced swimmer or biker. And so I would assume that you'd have to go about training in those other two sports a little differently. But hey, I'm not an athlete, so how would I know?

I guess you have to have completed an Ironman or work as a trainer/coach or whatever to actually give suggestions around here...sigh...

Edited by wurkit_gurl 2007-10-09 10:11 AM


2007-10-09 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

Cough cough ......

Overly strengthened and tight abdominal/core muscles will uneccessarily restrict breathing in more intense aerobic/anaerobic activities, so yes, doing too much core WILL hurt your performance.

Cough cough ......

2007-10-09 10:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

wurkit_gurl - 2007-10-09 11:10 AM  But hey, I'm not an athlete, so how would I know? I guess you have to have completed an Ironman or work as a trainer/coach or whatever to actually give suggestions around here...sigh...

Who peed in your Cheerios this morning???

2007-10-09 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
Daremo - 2007-10-09 11:14 AM

p>Who peed in your Cheerios this morning???




Hahaha. Good times.

2007-10-09 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

My personal experience is that I gain weight quickly when I do a lot of strength training. I do very little strength training for that reason, and I don't do it to improve my S/B/R. I do it to correct specific weaknesses I've had identified in the physical therapy clinic.

I would avoid doing strength training that has been arbitrarily plugged into a generic training plan. Every workout should have a purpose, not just in the pool or on the road but in the weight room as well. If you have an identified muscular imbalance or weakness, it can be addressed to some extent in the gym.

I agree core work is important. And I focus mentally on engaging my core in the pool, on the bike, and on the run. I do some core work in the gym because I like it. But that's another affliction addiction story...

 

2007-10-09 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
Bill - 2007-10-09 10:27 AM

My personal experience is that I gain weight quickly when I do a lot of strength training. I do very little strength training for that reason, and I don't do it to improve my S/B/R. I do it to correct specific weaknesses I've had identified in the physical therapy clinic.

I would avoid doing strength training that has been arbitrarily plugged into a generic training plan. Every workout should have a purpose, not just in the pool or on the road but in the weight room as well. If you have an identified muscular imbalance or weakness, it can be addressed to some extent in the gym.

I agree core work is important. And I focus mentally on engaging my core in the pool, on the bike, and on the run. I do some core work in the gym because I like it. But that's another affliction addiction story...

 

nice post


2007-10-09 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???

amiine - 2007-10-09 9:02 AM Furthermore, beginners with the interest in improving in triathlons would gain better/faster results by just s/b/r as they biggest limiter will be lack of aerobic base and specificity. If anything, seasoned athletes with many many years of base training under their belts ‘might’ benefit with a strength training program. (Notice ST does not equal to weight lifting)

As a beginner, you will also lose more weight using a plan combining aerobic exercise and weight training.  Which will help your speed.  Also if done correctly, lifting can help prevent or correct muscle imbalances that often cause injuries in endurance athletes (Such as tight Hamstrings for Cyclists).

That being said if you  for example, only have 1 hr of training time 3 days a week, you are going to have to choose your poison, because splitting between weights and aerobic exercise won't provide any worthwile benefits.

 

2007-10-09 10:32 AM
in reply to: #998416

Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
Daremo - 2007-10-09 11:12 AM

Cough cough ......

Overly strengthened and tight abdominal/core muscles will uneccessarily restrict breathing in more intense aerobic/anaerobic activities, so yes, doing too much core WILL hurt your performance.

Cough cough ......



Fine, you all win, okay? I clearly don't know anything because I'm just a newbie to tris. Maybe I should just sit on my butt and eat cheetos - let's see how fast THAT makes me.
2007-10-09 10:35 AM
in reply to: #998213

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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
Great!
I like this website, especially this forum! Quick reactions and many people posting.

I always do core exercises every morning, after I wake up and, honestly, I feel better reading your posts since I would save strength training time for s/c/r. I hate ST and it seems not very beneficial for a beginner tri like me. I need to work a lot on the pool and on the bike.
BTW, thanks to all your comments (funny and not)!

saluti
FN
2007-10-09 10:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???
It is very hard to gain a lot of muscle weight. Go to any gym or GNC and ask. I always call BS when i hear someone say this lift 30 minutes a session and 3 sessions a week and they gain a lot of muscle weight.

That is not to say strength training is good or bad . . . just saying.
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