Who does flip turns and why?
BY: powerman on 2011-06-30 1:07 AM

So flip turns are not beyond me. I can do them. I could do them better if I practiced more. But I don't see the point. Only because I don't need it in a OWS. It is more of an exertion... at least it seems to me. I just focus on stroke. So I go to the wall, touch turn and resume stroking. I don't put a lot of effort in push off and those things competitive swimming has you do.

So am I missing something? Should I do them for other reasons I don't know about?

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: NewClydesdale on 2011-06-30 1:24 AM

You will probably get a lot of responses to this but it boils down to a few point/counter points.

1. I don't do them because it isn't what I do in OWS so I'm wasting effort.
2. I do them because it has less interuption in my stroke / breathing / rythm than grabbing the wall so it is more like OWS
3. I don't do them because it hurts / I get water in my nose / I have health issues that prevent it.
4. I do them because I do a lot of pool tri's (colder regions) and it helps.

For me personally, I don't really know how to do them so sometimes, if I'm bored, I'll play at them for a while.  If I ever happen to get good at them, I'll do them more.

 

 

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RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: brucemorgan on 2011-06-30 3:26 AM

There are two general answers to flip turns.

1. Do them, because (fill in reason).   A common reason is that flip turns are what "real" swimmers do when doing laps in a pool, and many of us feel that triathletes should strive to be a fully competent swimmers, fully competent cyclists, and fully competent runners, rather than accepting "almost competent is good enough, after all I'm a triathlete".  Another common reason is that flip turns often result in more fluid, less interrupted, smoother swimming than open turns.

2. Don't do them, because (fill in reason).  A common reason is that OWS is not like pool swimming anyway, so there's little benefit to a triathlete to practice a skill like flip turns that won't be utilized come race day.

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"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert." - Clarke's Fourth Law.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: axteraa on 2011-06-30 3:46 AM

If you want to do them, do them.  If you don't, don't.  I do them simply because it's the natural thing to do for me as a swimmer.  I do think it's a good skill to learn to make you a better overall swimmer but I would put it pretty low on the priority list of skills to acquire. 

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: Leegoocrap on 2011-06-30 4:13 AM

if you don't do flip turns how are you going to be an elitist over the other triathletes at your pool?

 

If doing flip turns is MORE of an exertion, you are doing them incorrectly.

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RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: H20 Killer on 2011-06-30 6:22 AM

Ooh, my favorite topic.  My opinion is that as a new(er-ish) swimmer there are many other things to work on first.  If/As you decide to become a better swimmer you will naturally add in flip turns. As you improve in any sport you do the things that make you faster.  Flip turns are faster than open turns, not to mention they make you look like a swimmer as opposed to a tri dork.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: Mrschach on 2011-06-30 6:26 AM

I do them because I can. Doing them or not isn't going to help me in OWS, at least for me. I grew up swimming competitively so it is just natural for me.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: powerman on 2011-06-30 6:34 AM

Now that is a good reason.

I guess what I mean is that I do not put a lot of effort in pushing off and coasting and getting most out of it like a real swimmer would. My mind set is I'm there to work on my stroke, not pushing off a wall as best I can. I have read though that doing flips will bring your HR up more though and that is what I've found. Wether that is in my head or not I don't know.

 

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: pschriver on 2011-06-30 6:35 AM

I was resistant to do them at first using the logic that I wouldn't be doing them in OWS. Since I started doing flip turns a couple of years ago my swimming times rapidly went down both pool and OWS. It makes my work-outs  smooth and efficient. I wish I hadn't been an anti at first because I'm sure I could have shortened my learning curve

 

I wouldn't worry too much about HR during swimming. I also push off just hard enough to get me back up to cruising speed unless I am suffering through hard intervals.

Gliding during the push is an important skill to learn IMHO because it helps me focus on being streamline. Bigger improvements can be made by most people by cutting through the water efficiently than by splashing your arms harder.

Edited by pschriver 2011-06-30 6:42 AM

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: powerman on 2011-06-30 6:35 AM

Not looking like a dork... another good reason.

Edited by powerman 2011-06-30 6:36 AM

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: monkeyboy64 on 2011-06-30 6:37 AM

All the cool swimmers do flip turns.

I'm not cool.
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RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: powerman on 2011-06-30 6:38 AM

JHC.... 20 flippin times to post...

Thanks for your experience. Perhaps it would be worth the rhythm like others have said too. That would be a benefit

Edited by powerman 2011-06-30 6:40 AM

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: tamason on 2011-06-30 6:39 AM

 

For me, this ^^^^^   You saved me a lot of typing.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: DanielG on 2011-06-30 6:49 AM

The only thing I see continually about this are those who preach them as the end all and be all of "being a swimmer" all give off the holier than thou peon responses.

The rest of us generally don't give a damn one way or another. Do them. Don't do them. Whichever works best for you.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: RedCorvette on 2011-06-30 6:51 AM



This.

Mark

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"It doesn't get easier, you just get faster" Greg Lemond
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RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: moldoverb on 2011-06-30 7:17 AM

Wait, we run around in spandex shorts and sausage-casing tops, half the time covered in advertising, and you are worried about looking like a dork?

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2014 Goal: Plan less, race more. Local sprints, 5 k's, couple Oly's.
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RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: H20 Killer on 2011-06-30 7:21 AM

One thing I find perplexing about the tri crowd is the reluctance to take the next step in each discipline to put them on par with folks who excel in a single discipline.  Doing flip turns is a basic skill for being a good swimmer and there's no arguing that at all.  If you don't do them, fine, but don't expect your swimming to be as good as it should be.  If you honestly think that coming to a dead stop, grabbing the wall, doing the breath gasp, pushing off in the water plow position and going a whopping 1 yard underwater is good for your swimming, keep it up.  Otherwise, learn to flip.  I've heard every tri excuse in the book for not flipping but the moment a non flipper gets it down the story changes immediately and is always accompanied by "why didn't I learn to do this sooner?"

And, another curiosity about the reluctance of tri geeks to do flip turns is their willingness to slap on every swim training toy made, which have absolutely no benefit for the average triathlete swimmer.

Go to a pool with a good group of swimming triathletes.  Every single one will be dong flip turns.  Hmmm, kind of makes you wonder.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: DanielG on 2011-06-30 7:29 AM



But then again it's difficult to listen to single sport people who argue with triathletes that beat Craig Alexander out of the water and who always deride ear plugs as a method of stopping dizziness even after ten people who reply saying all their dizziness went away as soon as they started wearing ear plugs.

But when such people keep insisting their way is right, it IS amusing so there are the snicker points for such postings if nothing of substance.

RE: Who does flip turns and why?
BY: bzgl40 on 2011-06-30 7:31 AM

Your comments kind of conflict with each other.  I am lucky enough to have an olympic swim coach in the family.  Sadly for me he lives far away but he was here long enough to teach me flip turns in like 5 minutes.  Others have tried and failed.  But, as he was giving me instructions for the rest of my swim training he told me the toys I should buy.  So, if real swimmers flip turn and you say we should too cause we want to step up to the next level then shouldn't we then also use "toys" cause well, the real swimmers do?  Granted you have to know when and how but that's a different argument.

I flip turn cause it actually makes swimming more interesting and fun for me.  I find I stay in the grove better.  I don't find it takes extra energy to do.  If anything, now that I know how to do them to stop and turn at the wall without the flip turn seems "harder".