Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: scoobysdad on 2012-09-12 9:21 AM

Anti-American protesters attack a U.S. embassy and consulate, leaving a U.S. ambassador and several other Americans dead. Some reports indicate an al-Qaida flag was raised over the embassy in Egypt, and the Egyptian president has yet to condemn the riot.

The U.S. initially issues an apology to Muslim people for an obscure documentary film made by an American/Israeli citizen that is critical of Islam and may have inflamed tensions. Of course, yesterday also marked the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Meanwhile, in the U.S., President Obama refuses to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu during his U.S. visit later this month regarding the prime minister's concerns with developments in Iran and the Mid-East.

What is your take?

I can't shake the feeling we are seeing 1979 play out all over again.




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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: GomesBolt on 2012-09-12 9:30 AM

Just posted a thread and you beat me to it.

I'll post my comment here.

Sad to hear about the US Ambassador in Libya. My prayers go out to The people on both those diplomatic missions. I hope the Marines who are moving toward Tripoli never have a reason to point a weapon.

I grew up an Embassy brat in Mexico and Guatemala. We had attempted coups (golpes) so regularly in Guatemala that they were planned into the school schedule like snow days. As a kid, we thought it was great. Our non-embassy friends would come to our house and stay for a few days (we had a guard on the house during these) and we'd have a good time. Little did we know then that was because it was a civil war and we were very valuable targets.

Our diplomats are the outstretched hands of our country and the majority of them know the dangers and do a great job across administrations. Sad day.

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: tuwood on 2012-09-12 9:49 AM

Agree, it's a sad day.

I think from a political standpoint this is going to force the President to defend his foreign policy strategy with the Arab Spring and Israel.  One could argue that Obama is almost weaker on foreign policy than he is on the economy.

I honestly don't understand for the life of me what Obama is doing with Israel.  I will give him one thing, he's ignoring the political consequences for whatever agenda he's working towards.

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Romans 8:28 <><

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: Gaarryy on 2012-09-12 9:56 AM

This is too close to 9/11 for me to really buy into the  "someone not from the USA that lives in California, made a movie where scenes got on youtube so we are rioting"   Parading the dead body in the streets. Reports that the security forces told the rioters which building the envoy was moved to...    Just difficult for me to believe that right now

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: mr2tony on 2012-09-12 10:04 AM



The flag they flew was not an al qaeda flag, it has scripture written in Arabic say `Mohammed is the only god' or some such thing that makes it look similar to scripture al qaeda uses. In fact it's a commonly used scripture by conservative Muslims, all of whom are NOT al qaeda.

Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong.

Finally, Netenyahu has said Obama refused to meet while Obama says no meeting was requested. It's a he-said he-

The main point of contention between the U.S. and Israeli governments right now is that the Obama Administration doesn't like that Israel is basically telling us how to conduct our foreign policy with regards to Iran, saying we MUST draw a line on their nuclear weapons development.

Personally I agree and disagree with Obama. I agree that we shouldn't let a foreign government dictate our foreign policy, but I think we should be taking a harder stance with Iran.
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Me ``Well it's easy. Swim til you're done. Bike til you're done. Run til you're done.''
Big Appa ``I can get old drunk guys to feel me up but not any chicks FML. AND he didn’t even buy me a drink after… jack hole.''

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: scoobysdad on 2012-09-12 10:12 AM



That alone is an interesting juxtaposition of statements.

So... how is there a moral equivalency in killing a U.S. ambassador and several other Americans in supposed retaliation for some rinky-dink documentary film made by an Israeli living in America (and it just happens to take place on 9/11)?




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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: Big Appa on 2012-09-12 10:18 AM

Why would be using free speech be wrong? I haven’t seen the this video so I don't know if it's hate speech or just a contradictory view but either way I think if you speak out against someone they retort in violence it's wrong.

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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: BrianRunsPhilly on 2012-09-12 10:45 AM

Mohamed al-Zawahiri -- the brother of al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri -- added, "We called for the peaceful protest joined by different Islamic factions including the Islamicc Jihad (and the) Hazem Abu Ismael movement."

"We were surprised to see the big numbers show up, including the soccer Ultra fans," he said. "I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced?

How would we react? There might be protests, but we damn sure wouldn't be killing people. Freedom of speech, even though it may be hateful or disgusting, is a constitutional right and a cornerstone of our legal and societal systems. Civilized people respond in a civilized manner.

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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: mr2tony on 2012-09-12 10:47 AM



I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. And the Obama Administration's statements are in agreement with one another -- attacking a religion is bad, as is attacking and killing people in the name of religion.

Attacking one's religion is a bad thing because it shows religious intolerance regardless of the religion being attacked, wouldn't you agree? Now, while the filmmaker was an idiot, no, it doesn't justify any sort of violent attacks on ANYONE, especially to the scale of what we saw in Libya and Egypt.

People attacking and killing in the name of religion -- this is why I'm an atheist.
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FishrCutB8 ``...and you are Agent Double-O-Goggles...''
Me ``Well it's easy. Swim til you're done. Bike til you're done. Run til you're done.''
Big Appa ``I can get old drunk guys to feel me up but not any chicks FML. AND he didn’t even buy me a drink after… jack hole.''

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: mr2tony on 2012-09-12 10:51 AM



I never said using free speech is wrong. But just because it's your right doesn't make it right.

People say racist, sexist, religionist, whatever-ist things all the time. Sure they can do it, but does that make it right?

Violence is never the answer, that's a given in a civilized society.
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FishrCutB8 ``...and you are Agent Double-O-Goggles...''
Me ``Well it's easy. Swim til you're done. Bike til you're done. Run til you're done.''
Big Appa ``I can get old drunk guys to feel me up but not any chicks FML. AND he didn’t even buy me a drink after… jack hole.''

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: Gaarryy on 2012-09-12 10:54 AM

 

 Exactly it happens quite often actually..  South Park is pretty good about picking on everything, but even when they were going to do show on Muhammad Comedy Central edited them quite a bit.  That Never happed  for all the episodes of thier Jesus character.  (which were quite funny) .   Maybe Christians are just used to it or have a better sense of humor.   It might be me or what gets reported but it seems that when ever Muhammad is going to be portrayed poorly, certain groups of muslim object by using threats of violence or actual violence

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: scoobysdad on 2012-09-12 11:00 AM



My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities".

Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt.

It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world.



Edited by scoobysdad 2012-09-12 11:01 AM

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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: drewb8 on 2012-09-12 11:07 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/us-ambassador-to-libya-and-3-embassy-staff-members-reportedly-killed-in-libya/

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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: mr2tony on 2012-09-12 11:09 AM



I agree with you on all counts (edit) except the last statement about how the president reserves his passion.

I feel he should've said `Yes the guy's an idiot but he is also an American idiot, and therefore has the right to express his idiocy. Furthermore, we've decided to stop giving money and other assistance to Libya and Egypt because they obviuosly don't value us as an ally if they're allowing their people to kill our ambassadors and troops and attacking our embassies. Also, any more attacks on our embassies, which are in fact considered U.S. soil, will be seen as an act of aggression and we will defend ourselves.' But that's not very diplomatic, I guess.

Edited by mr2tony 2012-09-12 11:12 AM

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FishrCutB8 ``...and you are Agent Double-O-Goggles...''
Me ``Well it's easy. Swim til you're done. Bike til you're done. Run til you're done.''
Big Appa ``I can get old drunk guys to feel me up but not any chicks FML. AND he didn’t even buy me a drink after… jack hole.''

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: BrianRunsPhilly on 2012-09-12 11:18 AM

I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists.

From Fox News-

President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. 

"Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. 

"Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding:  "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."

 

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2014 Goal: Plan less, race more. Local sprints, 5 k's, couple Oly's.
This is supposed to be fun, right?

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: mr2tony on 2012-09-12 11:21 AM



New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador.
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FishrCutB8 ``...and you are Agent Double-O-Goggles...''
Me ``Well it's easy. Swim til you're done. Bike til you're done. Run til you're done.''
Big Appa ``I can get old drunk guys to feel me up but not any chicks FML. AND he didn’t even buy me a drink after… jack hole.''

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: scoobysdad on 2012-09-12 11:36 AM



What about the attack in Egypt? Why did Obama not even mention the attack on the U.S. consulate in Egypt in his address?

Why the initial apology by the U.S. embassy?

http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html

They certainly seem to be drawing some measure of moral equivalency between speech and violence there.




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RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: antlimon166 on 2012-09-12 11:38 AM

i saw an interview last night where an analyst for some terrorism and foreign affairs think-tank said that this kind of action in Libya and Egypt is becuase a growing majority of people of these countries don't distinquish the difference between an 'american individual' and the 'american governmet'.  so when some individual american yahoo mouths off or makes a ignorant video the people in these countries imediately blame the U.S. as a whole.  i definately agree with that statement and i think this kind of logic will only cause things to, unfortunately, get worse before they get better.

the quran burnings are another example...some idiots burn some qurans to show their personal beliefs, and the response from those same populations in muslim countries was that all americans should die. 

RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks
BY: antlimon166 on 2012-09-12 11:43 AM

i hope he means, "we'll give the Libyan govt a chance to help, but if they don't, we'll hunt them down on our own...no matter what anyone says.  becuase that's what happens when you mess with us."