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2008-04-18 12:38 PM

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Subject: Resting between Swim Intervals

I understand the benefit of swimming faster sets of 50m, 100m, 200m, 400m, etc... to get faster, of course!  I also do some straight-through swims of 1,000m, 1,500m, etc... to build endurance.  For those intervals of shorter sets, I generally take 20-60 seconds to catch my breath.  The harder/faster I swim, the longer the rest interval.  For all-out 50's, I rest a full minute.

Today, I did 100's at T-minus 5sec pace and rested 30sec between each.  Basically 100's at RPE 7-8 (1:40/100m) on the 2:10's.

It's been suggested that this is too long and that 10 seconds would be "better."  It just doesn't make sense for me to do a 10x100m with 0:10 rest intervals.  Why not just do the 1,000m continuously?  I mean, really, what's the point of a 5 or 10 second rest!?  If I'm swimming at an easy enough pace to only need 10 seconds rest, I might as well not rest at all.  Just keep swimming!



2008-04-18 12:41 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
I agree.  One of the staples of my swim workouts is 5-8 x 100 at foundation pace with 5 seconds of rest.  WTF?  What does 5 seconds do?  I just swim through it, to be honest....
2008-04-18 12:44 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
If I'm doing 100's I usually take 10 secs rest max. I'm usually doing sets though on something say 100 on 1:30. That usually means towards the beginning of the set I'm getting more rest and typically towards the end hanging on for dear life to make the set.

5 secs to 10 secs rest is pretty norming for 50 and 100's though.
2008-04-18 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
100's w/ 10sec Rest Intervals is a swimming staple. It really forces you to work hard but does provide sufficient rest to catch your breath and settle down your HR before pushing off again. This kind of near constant stimulus really helps. In your case, you should try doing a set of 10x100 on the 1:50. You can dtermine how much rest you get by how fast you and you will have to really work hard towards the end, but it's a great kind of workout. I also agree that straight swims are excellent, but they provide a different kind of stimulus, constant effort, anbd chances are the pacing is less.

Edited by bryancd 2008-04-18 12:49 PM
2008-04-18 12:52 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
:30 sec definately too long for a 100.  My master's coach usually gives us :10 maybe :15.  I definately feel pretty good after the rest too.  Now that being said, I did 2 OW swims this past weekend in races with a wetsuit and I felt better last summer w/o a wetsuit when I was pretty much just doing straigt swims.  I dont' know if it was the wetsuit or the swimming sets that messed with me but I definately was slower this weekend.  I do like swimming sets especially with a team, it makes the workout go so much quicker.
2008-04-18 12:54 PM
in reply to: #1347486

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

bryancd - 2008-04-18 12:48 PM 100's w/ 10sec Rest Intervals is a swimming staple. It really forces you to work hard but does provide sufficient rest to catch your breath and settle down your HR before pushing off again. This kind of near constant stimulus really helps. In your case, you should try doing a set of 10x100 on the 1:50. You can dtermine how much rest you get by how fast you and you will have to really work hard towards the end, but it's a great kind of workout. I also agree that straight swims are excellent, but they provide a different kind of stimulus, constant effort, anbd chances are the pacing is less.

x2.

Today's workout for me was 5 x 100 on 10" and then right into a 500 while trying to hold the same pace as the 100s.  Then take 30" and repeat.  It's a VERY different workout than a 2000m straight swim.  In general, much more valuable for me as my body learns to push the pace.  This eventually, of course, leads to faster 2000m swims.



2008-04-18 12:57 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
I am working with an endurance swim plan, and after the main set of 1,000 - 1,100 (currently) it breaks down to set of 100's (4X) then 50's (4X). The rest between each set of 100's or 50's is four breaths. I take real deep breaths, but still, I would say 15 seconds rest between the sets. The little rest helps build endurance, and "at pace" with little rest helps build speed endurance. So you can keep at pace for longer.

Trust me, near the end of my workout I am loving the four breath break before starting again.
2008-04-18 1:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

I think if I did 100's with 10 second rests, my times would look something like this:

1:39, 1:41, 1:42, 1:43, 1:44, 1:45, 1:46, 1:47, 1:48, 1:49...

On the otherhand, a straight 1,000m at 1:50/100m pace seems quite manageable.  I guess I treat the swim intervals too much like track intervals and tend to go pretty hard.

2008-04-18 1:01 PM
in reply to: #1347522

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
mbmoran2 - 2008-04-18 1:00 PM

I think if I did 100's with 10 second rests, my times would look something like this:

1:39, 1:41, 1:42, 1:43, 1:44, 1:45, 1:46, 1:47, 1:48, 1:49...

On the otherhand, a straight 1,000m at 1:50/100m pace seems quite manageable.  I guess I treat the swim intervals too much like track intervals and tend to go pretty hard.

Try for:

1:45, 1:45, 1:45, 1:45...

2008-04-18 1:03 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
mbmoran2 - 2008-04-18 1:38 PM

I understand the benefit of swimming faster sets of 50m, 100m, 200m, 400m, etc... to get faster, of course! I also do some straight-through swims of 1,000m, 1,500m, etc... to build endurance. For those intervals of shorter sets, I generally take 20-60 seconds to catch my breath. The harder/faster I swim, the longer the rest interval. For all-out 50's, I rest a full minute.

Today, I did 100's at T-minus 5sec pace and rested 30sec between each. Basically 100's at RPE 7-8 (1:40/100m) on the 2:10's.

It's been suggested that this is too long and that 10 seconds would be "better." It just doesn't make sense for me to do a 10x100m with 0:10 rest intervals. Why not just do the 1,000m continuously? I mean, really, what's the point of a 5 or 10 second rest!? If I'm swimming at an easy enough pace to only need 10 seconds rest, I might as well not rest at all. Just keep swimming!

The point is to gradually get better by swimming somewhat/slightly faster than your T-pace. Your all-out swim pace and form is nothing like your 1000-1500m TT pace and form and never will be so don't worry about training like that. For example, my race pace is like 1:18-20 per 100yds, so if I swim pretty hard 100 repeats at 1:15/100 on 1:30 or 1:40 one day I should be able to hold that pace for races if I train correctly.

I don't go out and sprint 200m repeats on the track to get my half marathon time down, right? So why would I do all out 50m swim repeats and expect that to work any different.

The point is to push yourself a little bit often, not too much all at once.



Edited by dck4shrt 2008-04-18 1:16 PM
2008-04-18 1:10 PM
in reply to: #1347522

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
mbmoran2 - 2008-04-18 1:00 PM

I think if I did 100's with 10 second rests, my times would look something like this:

1:39, 1:41, 1:42, 1:43, 1:44, 1:45, 1:46, 1:47, 1:48, 1:49...

On the otherhand, a straight 1,000m at 1:50/100m pace seems quite manageable.  I guess I treat the swim intervals too much like track intervals and tend to go pretty hard.



Right, that makes sense, it's not all that different but it "feels" different doing the intervals, it "feels" hard because that little faster pace adds up to fatigue. JK is correct, i't best to try and hold a pace as much as possible for the entire set, so 1:45 would be a great target for you. That :05/100 will "feel" hard to hold by the last few, but that's the point.


2008-04-18 1:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

kproudfoot - 2008-04-18 12:52 PM :30 sec definately too long for a 100.  My master's coach usually gives us :10 maybe :15.  I definately feel pretty good after the rest too.  Now that being said, I did 2 OW swims this past weekend in races with a wetsuit and I felt better last summer w/o a wetsuit when I was pretty much just doing straigt swims.  I dont' know if it was the wetsuit or the swimming sets that messed with me but I definately was slower this weekend.  I do like swimming sets especially with a team, it makes the workout go so much quicker.

or maybe it was the fact that the course was a bit long ?? 

2008-04-18 1:17 PM
in reply to: #1347499

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
JohnnyKay - 2008-04-18 9:54 AM

bryancd - 2008-04-18 12:48 PM 100's w/ 10sec Rest Intervals is a swimming staple. It really forces you to work hard but does provide sufficient rest to catch your breath and settle down your HR before pushing off again. This kind of near constant stimulus really helps. In your case, you should try doing a set of 10x100 on the 1:50. You can dtermine how much rest you get by how fast you and you will have to really work hard towards the end, but it's a great kind of workout. I also agree that straight swims are excellent, but they provide a different kind of stimulus, constant effort, anbd chances are the pacing is less.

x2.

Today's workout for me was 5 x 100 on 10" and then right into a 500 while trying to hold the same pace as the 100s. Then take 30" and repeat. It's a VERY different workout than a 2000m straight swim. In general, much more valuable for me as my body learns to push the pace. This eventually, of course, leads to faster 2000m swims.



x3

It's the "bread & butter" of endurance swim workouts.

My main set yesterday was 15x100m (:10RI). I can't wait for those 40x100's in June and July.

scott
2008-04-18 1:20 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
mbmoran2 - 2008-04-18 1:38 PM

I understand the benefit of swimming faster sets of 50m, 100m, 200m, 400m, etc... to get faster, of course!  I also do some straight-through swims of 1,000m, 1,500m, etc... to build endurance.  For those intervals of shorter sets, I generally take 20-60 seconds to catch my breath.  The harder/faster I swim, the longer the rest interval.  For all-out 50's, I rest a full minute.

Today, I did 100's at T-minus 5sec pace and rested 30sec between each.  Basically 100's at RPE 7-8 (1:40/100m) on the 2:10's.

It's been suggested that this is too long and that 10 seconds would be "better."  It just doesn't make sense for me to do a 10x100m with 0:10 rest intervals.  Why not just do the 1,000m continuously?  I mean, really, what's the point of a 5 or 10 second rest!?  If I'm swimming at an easy enough pace to only need 10 seconds rest, I might as well not rest at all.  Just keep swimming!

I generally recommend for my athletes about a 15-20s rest for hard 100yd/m intervals.  The purpose is to allow yourself to lower your heart rate, but not allow it to go to low.  The goal is to be able to do 10x100 hard on short rest, so that you train your body to be better prepared to do 1000 at the same pace.

2008-04-18 1:20 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

OK.  You guys have given me a personal challenge:

  • week of 4/21:  10x100 at 1:50 on 2:00 (high confidence)
  • week of 4/28:  10x100 at 1:45 on 1:55 (seems doable)
  • week of 5/5:    10x100 at 1:40 on 1:50 (we'll see)

I'm guessing it's better to hold rest intervals constant.   If, one has trouble leaving on the x:xx, it's better to slow down vs. extend rest, right?

 

2008-04-18 1:22 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

Today, I did 100's at T-minus 5sec pace and rested 30sec between each. Basically 100's at RPE 7-8 (1:40/100m) on the 2:10's.

It's been suggested that this is too long and that 10 seconds would be "better."



Sounds like you've gotten faster and need to reset your T-pace! Base -5 will probably give you around 10 seconds rest.


It just doesn't make sense for me to do a 10x100m with 0:10 rest intervals. Why not just do the 1,000m continuously?


You can actually perform more work by taking the RI. Long enough to give you a break, short enough not to matter.


2008-04-18 1:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
mbmoran2 - 2008-04-18 1:20 PM

OK.  You guys have given me a personal challenge:

  • week of 4/21:  10x100 at 1:50 on 2:00 (high confidence)
  • week of 4/28:  10x100 at 1:45 on 1:55 (seems doable)
  • week of 5/5:    10x100 at 1:40 on 1:50 (we'll see)

I'm guessing it's better to hold rest intervals constant.   If, one has trouble leaving on the x:xx, it's better to slow down vs. extend rest, right?

 



As long as the intervals are a reasonable duration, if you come to the wall and only have a few seconds left, you go, don't slow down. If you get to the wall and there's no time left, you go. If you get to the wall and you are over and you still have a few to do, you set the bar too high.
2008-04-18 1:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

bryancd - 2008-04-18 2:27 PM

As long as the intervals are a reasonable duration, if you come to the wall and only have a few seconds left, you go, don't slow down. If you get to the wall and there's no time left, you go. If you get to the wall and you are over and you still have a few to do, you set the bar too high.

What I really need is Bryan on the deck barking at me after each 100m:

"WTF are you doing hangin' on the gd wall!  Get your A$$ in gear and swim!  Swim you MF'er, SWIM!  HTFU and SWIM!!!

 

2008-04-18 1:39 PM
in reply to: #1347454

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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
And just to throw this out there...when you move into your taper you can go back to doing the 100s with a ton of rest, just do them at an even faster pace.

Turn you into a superstar swimmer
2008-04-18 1:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals

it is about intensity and the adaptations it produces; I bet you can't hold your top end speed for 1000 yds straight but you will by breaking it down on 10x100 with :10 rest. Why? because you allow your body to recover from set to set and be able to push as hard on each one. By accomplishing that you are adapting your body to swim faster while producing many physiologically adaptations. Eventually you'll body will grow fitter and your top end speed will become easier and you should be able to swim 1000  at or close that speed.

How long the rest should be? depends on how long are the sets, how hard are you pushing and what the session's goal is...

2008-04-18 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
mbmoran2 - 2008-04-18 1:38 PM

bryancd - 2008-04-18 2:27 PM

As long as the intervals are a reasonable duration, if you come to the wall and only have a few seconds left, you go, don't slow down. If you get to the wall and there's no time left, you go. If you get to the wall and you are over and you still have a few to do, you set the bar too high.

What I really need is Bryan on the deck barking at me after each 100m:

"WTF are you doing hangin' on the gd wall!  Get your A$$ in gear and swim!  Swim you MF'er, SWIM!  HTFU and SWIM!!!

 



What we all need is Bob Stocks to teach us! Hopefully he will chime in here as well.


2008-04-18 2:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
I'm a total nOOb swimmer as you can see from my logs. I've been seeing some improvement lately, but still feel I'm a couple of months of hard work away from swimming comfortabley with the masters class. I swim over in the lap lane during class so I don't clog things up.

I have trouble with flip turns because they give me motion sickness, so I almost feel like I get a break on the turns using (I percieve) less energy then flip turns. I also just use fins (no arms) for kicks instead of the kick board, the KB is just too difficult for me at this point & I gave it up last winter.

This has been my routine lately; I start with 600 meters FS, 600 meters just kicking on my back with fins, 600 meters of pulls, & finish it off with 200 meter FS. I feel pretty worked after this. I try to do a half hour of strength training before the swims. I'm just getting comfortable with this routine, so I'll probable up my distance by another 500 meters soon & then max out at 3000 meters per session.

I have had a couple of lessons, and occasionally ask for tips during masters class. I really try to focus on my stroke during my pulls. I can do a 45 second 50 meter, but at this point I'm just trying to build stamina. I do these sessions as quickly as I can with no break except to change equipment.

This year is all base training for me with a few events thrown in for fun. That's why I'm not using a training plan.

Does what I'm doing make sense? Or am I being counter productive? I would really like to do an Oly at the end of the summer, but not sure I'm preparing properly for the swimming. Anyone have suggestings?
2008-04-18 2:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
kproudfoot - 2008-04-18 12:52 PM

:30 sec definately too long for a 100.  My master's coach usually gives us :10 maybe :15.  I definately feel pretty good after the rest too.  Now that being said, I did 2 OW swims this past weekend in races with a wetsuit and I felt better last summer w/o a wetsuit when I was pretty much just doing straigt swims.  I dont' know if it was the wetsuit or the swimming sets that messed with me but I definately was slower this weekend.  I do like swimming sets especially with a team, it makes the workout go so much quicker.


Well, no one believes me... but swimming in a wetsuit slows me down. It changes my stroke just enough that I'm not as effective in the water. In fact, the slowest swim I have ever had was in a wetsuit.

When I have done a wetsuit swim, muscles in my shoulders hurt that NEVER hurt when I swim without one.

I think the more advanced you become as a swimmer, and the more refineced your stroke is... the more stuff can affect your stroke. A wetsuit definitely affects my stroke and not in a good way.

2008-04-18 2:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
Schrup - 2008-04-18 2:41 PM

This has been my routine lately; I start with 600 meters FS, 600 meters just kicking on my back with fins, 600 meters of pulls, & finish it off with 200 meter FS. I feel pretty worked after this. I try to do a half hour of strength training before the swims. I'm just getting comfortable with this routine, so I'll probable up my distance by another 500 meters soon & then max out at 3000 meters per session.

Does what I'm doing make sense? Or am I being counter productive? I would really like to do an Oly at the end of the summer, but not sure I'm preparing properly for the swimming. Anyone have suggestings?


I'm confused as to why you kick on your back for 600 meters with fins. ???? What has made you decided to do this?

I might also add that it would be OK to change up your routine some. Kind of like if you go in and lift the same amount of weights every single day in the exact same way, at some point you stop seeing returns.

If you get the book Swim Workouts in a Binder for Triathlets, you can get some swim workouts to do from there. And you can pick your workout based on what you need to do that day. Endurance, speed, etc.

2008-04-18 2:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Resting between Swim Intervals
KSH - 2008-04-18 2:42 PM
kproudfoot - 2008-04-18 12:52 PM :30 sec definately too long for a 100.  My master's coach usually gives us :10 maybe :15.  I definately feel pretty good after the rest too.  Now that being said, I did 2 OW swims this past weekend in races with a wetsuit and I felt better last summer w/o a wetsuit when I was pretty much just doing straigt swims.  I dont' know if it was the wetsuit or the swimming sets that messed with me but I definately was slower this weekend.  I do like swimming sets especially with a team, it makes the workout go so much quicker.
Well, no one believes me... but swimming in a wetsuit slows me down. It changes my stroke just enough that I'm not as effective in the water. In fact, the slowest swim I have ever had was in a wetsuit. When I have done a wetsuit swim, muscles in my shoulders hurt that NEVER hurt when I swim without one. I think the more advanced you become as a swimmer, and the more refineced your stroke is... the more stuff can affect your stroke. A wetsuit definitely affects my stroke and not in a good way.
I have heard this and I trained with my suit last summer and swam great.  I think my suit might be a little tight in the chest now since I have been doing pushups everyday and have notice some more muscle.  Plus the water has been colder than last year so it kind of takes my breath away.  I will say that when I get going with my suit I feel like I am flying.  Maybe I just am working harder than I should be with the suit on.  I definately have notice soreness after swimming with my wetsuit but not enought to really make me tired.  Fortunately my stroke is anything but pretty so I don't think that is really affecting it.
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