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2014-01-18 9:16 AM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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Expert
972
5001001001001002525
Falls Church
Subject: RE: It's a January weekend

Points for the week:

3 lbs lost = 30 points

498 minutes = 16 points

Total points = 46

Did I do that right?

Have a great week everyone.



2014-01-18 11:25 AM
in reply to: hoffsquared

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New user
431
10010010010025
Hingham, MA
Subject: RE: It's a January weekend
Originally posted by hoffsquared

Points for the week:

3 lbs lost = 30 points

498 minutes = 16 points

Total points = 46

Did I do that right?

Have a great week everyone.




Are you taking the day off tomorrow? Sunday is post night.

You short changed yourself add another 5 points for not gaining.

Otherwise great job! Thanks!

2014-01-18 5:04 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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80
252525
Subject: RE: swimming endurance
My weakest area is the swim, so that is what I am hoping to get better at. Lately, I have noticed how lacking my endurance is. I'm slowly increasing the distance I swim, but I am having to rest every 50 yards, out of breath. THe first 25yards seem fine, but I turn around and feel like I've been swimming forever.
I'm trying to work on all the pointers mentioned in all of Scotts posts also. I love the idea of counting using the lane dividers. Bilateral breathing is going to take awhile, I can see. I've also noticed I'm lifting my head to breath on my dominate side, probably more than I should.
I know consistency is the key, so I keep trying to improve slowly. How long should I expect before I don't tire so easily? It worries me because I know I won't be able to rest in 3 months, when my tri is.
2014-01-19 6:47 AM
in reply to: Kris67

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Royal(PITA)
14270
50005000200020001001002525
West Chester, Ohio
Subject: RE Challenge

Weekly totals:

2 lb lost  =20

no gain =5

minutes exercise 779 =help me out here, I forget how many points per 30 minutes

2014-01-19 8:17 AM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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80
252525
Subject: RE: RE Challenge
1lb lost = 10pts
No wt gain =5 pts
7hr exercise=14pts (1 pt per 30 min, right?)
Total 29 pts
2014-01-19 8:58 AM
in reply to: Kris67

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Official BT Coach
18500
50005000500020001000500
Indianapolis, Indiana
Gold member
Subject: RE: swimming endurance

Originally posted by Kris67

My weakest area is the swim, so that is what I am hoping to get better at. Lately, I have noticed how lacking my endurance is. I'm slowly increasing the distance I swim, but I am having to rest every 50 yards, out of breath. THe first 25yards seem fine, but I turn around and feel like I've been swimming forever. I'm trying to work on all the pointers mentioned in all of Scotts posts also. I love the idea of counting using the lane dividers. Bilateral breathing is going to take awhile, I can see. I've also noticed I'm lifting my head to breath on my dominate side, probably more than I should.

I know consistency is the key, so I keep trying to improve slowly. How long should I expect before I don't tire so easily? It worries me because I know I won't be able to rest in 3 months, when my tri is.

Hi Kris,

Struggling after only 25 yards pretty clearly says that swim fitness is an issue. We need to look at the 'whole swimming picture' to get an idea of what is going on and how to fix it.  Just increasing the distance is not the answer in and of itself.  I say all the time that if you are swimming with poor technique, it simply does not matter how far you swim.  You will struggle to improve.  Technique MUST come first.

That said, I have a couple questions so we can get an idea of what is happening -

What does your typical swim workout look like?  Meaning what are you doing?  Are you just getting in the water and swimming laps?  Or do you have a set plan that you follow (try to follow?)?  If you have a set plan, what is it?

How long have you been swimming?  More accurately, how long have you been training specifically for a swim event (in this case triathlon)?

 



2014-01-19 10:44 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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80
252525
Subject: RE: swimming endurance
I just started swimming laps the end of Dec. I just get in and swim laps- started at only 200 yds and increased with each session, partly looking at the BT training for a sprint. I've never had a coach so I not sure what I doing right or wrong. I had been feeling I was improving but the last week and a half it's felt harder. It may be I'm tired from all my other training? I've also been concentrating on the tips I've read here and maybe that's messing me up?
2014-01-19 11:36 AM
in reply to: Kris67

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238
10010025
Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: swimming endurance
.5lb lost = 5 pts
no gain = 5 pts
328min = 10 pts

total = 20 pts

Have a great week everyone!
2014-01-19 12:45 PM
in reply to: 0

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New user
431
10010010010025
Hingham, MA
Subject: RE: swimming endurance
Originally posted by k9car363

What does your typical swim workout look like?  Meaning what are you doing?  Are you just getting in the water and swimming laps?  Or do you have a set plan that you follow (try to follow?)?  If you have a set plan, what is it?

How long have you been swimming?  More accurately, how long have you been training specifically for a swim event (in this case triathlon)?

 




Scott - Thanks for mentioning the plan thing.

I spoke with my master class instructor and he was onboard for adjusting my training for a 1 mile swim. I think that means I don't have to use the kickboard, fins and do his drills but I need to talk to him about an actual plan. I think he is very good and I am developing a good base. Write from the startt he has me breathing bilaterally and brushing my thigh with my thumb so I think that is a good start but I know I have a long way to go. I have to put in more hours which I am more than willing to do because I enjoy it so much.

BTW - My daughter Rose who is a freshman in high school started swim team for the first time 6 weeks ago and is doing great. She had never done any competitive swimming before, not even a length and she is already looking awesome. During the first week quite a number of kids dropped out but she said she would give it another week and stuck with it. I went to a meet the other day and was totally amazed, head was nicely in the water, she was breathing bilaterally and getting a good kickoff with her flipturns. I was totally amazed at the transformation over a 6 week period and she told me about the workouts and they are 3x what I have been doing. So I guess it is time to step up my game.

I'll keep you updated on the plan but if you have any suggestions or sites to visit that would be cool.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

GO PATS!!!



Edited by JREDFLY 2014-01-19 12:48 PM
2014-01-19 2:12 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

Subject: RE: swimming endurance
I have not posted at all so i have to make up for 2 weeks if that is acceptable

Beginning weight = 147 lb Current weight = 144 lb

Weight loss = 3 lb = 30 points

2 weeks X no gain = 10 points

exercise in 2 weeks = 5 hours = 300 minutes = 30 points

total = 70 points

Does that sound right?

thank you.

charlotte

2014-01-19 2:14 PM
in reply to: charlotte hobbs

Subject: RE: swimming endurance
Originally posted by charlotte hobbs

I have not posted at all so i have to make up for 2 weeks if that is acceptable

Beginning weight = 147 lb Current weight = 144 lb

Weight loss = 3 lb = 30 points

2 weeks X no gain = 10 points

exercise in 2 weeks = 5 hours = 300 minutes = 30 points

total = 70 points

Does that sound right?

thank you.

charlotte

Sorry error 300 minutes of exercise = 10 points
total = 50 points




2014-01-19 5:48 PM
in reply to: charlotte hobbs

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Expert
1007
1000
Missouri
Subject: RE: swimming endurance

2#'s lost = 20
no gain = 5
343 minutes = 11.4

total = 36.4

Janet

2014-01-19 7:16 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Royal(PITA)
14270
50005000200020001001002525
West Chester, Ohio
Subject: RE: RE Challenge

Originally posted by QueenZipp

Weekly totals:

2 lb lost  =20

no gain =5

minutes exercise 779 =help me out here, I forget how many points per 30 minutes

at 1 point/ 30 min rounding up on the division =26 points exercise (25.9) =51 points this week

2014-01-19 8:14 PM
in reply to: 0

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Official BT Coach
18500
50005000500020001000500
Indianapolis, Indiana
Gold member
Subject: RE: swimming endurance

Originally posted by Kris67

I just started swimming laps the end of Dec. I just get in and swim laps- started at only 200 yds and increased with each session, partly looking at the BT training for a sprint. I've never had a coach so I not sure what I doing right or wrong. I had been feeling I was improving but the last week and a half it's felt harder. It may be I'm tired from all my other training? I've also been concentrating on the tips I've read here and maybe that's messing me up?

Hi Kris -

First, I don't know which Sprint plan you are following, but none of them are really 'right' for a beginning swimmer, regardless of what they may claim.  According to my calendar, you have 14 weeks before your Sprint.  The swim distance will be +/- 750 yards (or meters, whatever, not that big a difference).

So let's talk about how to best get ready to swim the distance.

I have said repeatedly that technique trumps everything else.  You can get in the water and swim lap upon endless lap, but if your technique is flawed, you are wasting your time.

This is going to perhaps be counter-intuitive, but here is a plan that will get you ready for a sprint over the next 14 weeks.  If my wife was going to train for a sprint, this is what I would suggest she do.

Start by reviewing all the stroke technique information on my website, http://goscottgo.info/index.php/swimming-technique.  Next, go to http://swimsmooth.com/, and watch the animation of 'Mr. Smooth' swimming.  We won't worry about the minor differences between 'his' perfect freestyle and my perfect freestyle.  The differences are minute enough so as not to matter.  Don't be afraid to 'assume the dry-land swimming position' right there in your living room and making sure you understand proper technique (stand upright, bend at the waist until torso is parallel to the floor, one hand above your head, the other behind you as if you are horizontal in the water and "swim").

During EVERY rest period in each workout over the following 14 weeks you should be thinking about PERFECT technique.  Review in your mind all the various tips you have heard.  Maybe review my website and revisit 'Mr. Smooth' each week just to confirm proper technique in your mind.

Week 1. Next week, only do 3 swim workouts of 400 yards each.  Get in the water and do 16 x 25 with 60 seconds rest between repetitions.  YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH PACE AT ALL.  The ENTIRE focus of these workouts is ABSOLUTELY PERFECT STROKE TECHNIQUE.  If you fatigue to the point that your technique breaks down, take an extra minute of rest.  If that does not improve the technique, get out of the water, go home, and try again next time.  This is important - when you have gone 400 yards, get out of the water and go home!  Don't try and add yards, you will defeat the whole purpose which is to commit perfect technique to muscle memory.

If you can get with a coach, even for a session or two, this would be the time to do it!  There is no replacement for a coach on deck.

Week 2.  Do the same thing, 16 x 25, however with 45 seconds rest between repetitions.  Everything else applies exactly as 'week 1.'  Make sure that you are breathing to both sides (bi-lateral breathing).

Remember technique!

Week 3.  Three swim workouts, however up the yardage to 600 yards per workout.  4 x 25 easy warm-up with whatever rest you need between reps.  Then 4 sets of 25-50-25 ladder with 60 seconds rest between repetitions.  To make sure it is clear, swim 25, rest 60 seconds, swim 50, rest 60, swim 25, rest 60, repeat.  Follow with 4 x 25 easy cool-down, again on whatever rest works for you.  The same thing applies here as all the previous workouts.  If you fatigue to the point your technique begins to break down, take an extra 60 seconds rest.  If that does not improve the technique, get out of the water, go home and try again next time.

I CAN NOT overstate this - if you are continuing to swim after your technique breaks down, you are doing yourself a disservice!

Week 4.  Same as week 3, however reduce rest period to 45 seconds.  Everything else applies as in week 3.

Focus on perfect technique!

Week 5.  Three swim workouts and increase the yardage to 800 yards.  4 x easy 25 w/30 seconds rest to warm-up.  Follow with 4 sets of 25, 50, 75 ladder @ 45 seconds rest.  Follow with 100 easy cool-down (preferably swim 100 yards non-stop at EASY pace, enjoying perfect technique).  Milestone week - at the conclusion of the first workout in week 5 you will have gone further in one workout than the distance in a sprint triathlon swim!  You are getting there!

Week 6.  Three swim workouts.  This will be the first week of true endurance training.  The goal is to build to at least 1.5-2.0 times the race swim distance in any given workout (750 yards swim distance, workout goal 1,125 - 1,500 yards).  Keep yardage at 800 yards.  2 x 50 easy warm-up.  Then 6 x 100 with 60 seconds rest.  Follow with 4 x 25 cool-down.

As the distance increases, it is very important you concentrate on proper technique.

Week 7-10.  Three swim workouts.  2 x 50 warm-up.  Follow with main set, building repetitions of 100's with reducing rest.  Here is what I mean.  Week 7 up yardage to 1,000 then add 200 yards each succeeding week through week 10 ( 7- 1,000, 8 x 100; 8 - 1,200, 10 x 100; 9 - 1,400, 12 x 100; 10 - 1,600, 14 x 100).  Through each week, on each day, reduce rest period by 10 seconds per repetition (for example, Mon - 60 rest, Wed - 50 rest, Fri - 40 rest then reset to 60 seconds at start of next week with longer overall distance).  Follow with 2 x 50 cool-down.  If this doesn't make sense, send me a message and I will try and clarify.

The harder you push yourself, the more important you focus on technique.

Week 11-12.  Four swim workouts.  Yardage goes to 1,700.  2 x 50 warm-up.  Then 2 x 200 easy pace with 60 seconds rest, follow with 6 x 100 with 30 seconds rest (the pace on these 100's should be harder, think 'uncomfortably comfortable'), follow with 2 x 200 easy pace with 60 seconds rest.  End with 2 x 100 EASY cool down.

Week 13.  Three swim workouts.  1st and 3rd workout, working on speed just a little bit.  2 x 100 warm-up.  12 x 50 with 20 seconds rest.  These will be very difficult repetitions - they are SUPPOSE to hurt!  Be very aware of your stroke technique and guard against technique breaking down.  The early part of this session will feel OK as you are swimming a short distance with a good rest period.  By midway through the set, you should find that 20 seconds rest is just enough to get your breathing back under control.  By the end of the set, you will be gasping for breath as you begin the last repetitions.  Follow with 2 x 100 cool-down.  2nd workout, repeat one week 11 workout.

Week 14.  Three swim workouts.  Day one - 1,200 yards, 200 easy warm-up, 8 x 100 with 45 seconds rest, 2 x 100 cool-down.  Day two - 1,000 yards, 200 easy warm-up, 12 x 50 with 45 rest focused on perfect technique, follow with 200 easy cool down.  Day three - 800 yards, 2  x 50 warm-up, 6 x 100 with 60 seconds rest focused on technique, 2 x 50 cool-down.

I suggest you review the 'plan' before each workout.  Understand what you want to accomplish that day.  This plan obviously does not include specific work on kicking or pulling which may or may not be necessary.  I strongly encourage you to find a coach as there is simply no substitute for 'eyes on deck.'  If you are able to find a coach, then I would defer to his/her judgement on workout progression.  Absent a coach, this plan will get you ready for a sprint triathlon swim.

Hope that helps!



Edited by k9car363 2014-01-19 8:53 PM
2014-01-19 8:16 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

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Official BT Coach
18500
50005000500020001000500
Indianapolis, Indiana
Gold member
Subject: RE: RE Challenge

2.3 pounds lost - 23 points

No gain - 5 points

607 minutes workout - 20.2 points

48.2 points total.

2014-01-19 8:31 PM
in reply to: #4915093

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Master
2146
200010025
East Side of the Bay
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum (all levels welcome)--CLOSED
Looks like week 3 will be a reboot. Week 2 started well but complete fail by the end. I think the stress of the past week caught up to me once hubby got home on Wednesday. No ambition at all.

Week 2
0.5 lb gain: 5 point penalty
200 minutes exercise: 7 points

Total: 2 points yup 2. Only up from here.


2014-01-19 8:43 PM
in reply to: 0

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Official BT Coach
18500
50005000500020001000500
Indianapolis, Indiana
Gold member
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum (all levels welcome)--CLOSED

Originally posted by KOM

Total: 2 points yup 2. Only up from here.

Hey Kathy -

It doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down.

What matters is how many times you get back up!

Onward and upward!!!



Edited by k9car363 2014-01-19 9:41 PM
2014-01-19 8:55 PM
in reply to: k9car363

Subject: ...
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2014-01-19 8:57 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: ...
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Edited by Dogpaddle 2014-01-19 9:07 PM
2014-01-19 10:07 PM
in reply to: QueenZipp

Regular
1126
100010025
East Wenatchee, Washington
Subject: RE:Challenge
Man, this forum is awesome. The training minutes you guys are putting up are incredible. I'm a slacker with only 480 minutes.

Keep it up!

Steve
2014-01-20 8:06 AM
in reply to: lutzman

Expert
1384
1000100100100252525
Charlottesville, Virginia
Subject: RE:Challenge
Here are my scores... a bit disappointing on both counts, but that makes 3 pretty decent build base weeks in a row for me, which is an improvement over Nov/Dec. Swim in starting to feel right again and I've even had a spring in my run for a couple of miles this week :-)

Weight - no change = 0 points + 5 point bonus for no gain = 5
Training = 330 min = 11 points

Total for week = 16


2014-01-20 8:06 AM
in reply to: k9car363


80
252525
Subject: RE: swimming endurance
Thank you Scott- I will print this out and make it my plan. I have been reading your site and looked at mr smooth, which is very cool.
2014-01-20 9:18 AM
in reply to: Kris67

Regular
1126
100010025
East Wenatchee, Washington
Subject: RE: weigh in
Here's the tally:

Dropped .5 pounds to 163.5. and had 480 minutes of training last week.

  • 5 lb = 5 points
  • No gain = 5 points
    480 mins = 16 points

    Total = 26

    Steve
    2014-01-20 10:03 AM
    in reply to: 0

    New user
    431
    10010010010025
    Hingham, MA
    Subject: RE:Challenge
    No weight loss = 5 pts
    180 minutes working out = 6 pts
    Total 11 pts

    Steve - Another nice avatar. I'll be routing for your Seahawks now that my Pats are out. My kids think the new uniforms are very cool.

    Scott - Nice job on the Sprint training schedule. I wish I had that last year, I wasted too much time killing myself trying to do consecutive laps. Luckliy I had a few Scottisms (reach & brush thumb to thigh) in my head to help. I just started back last week because my pool is at Umass and was closed during the holiday break. I was thinking of maybe using this schedule to start over to build up to my 1 mile swim by the end of the summer but then I noticed that my workouts last week were pretty much like your week 13. I did 16 50s with 15 second breaks and was trying work on form and breathing again. I felt fairly strong but did feel some breakdown on my stroke here and there. Could you point me to any good schedules for my situation (beginner swimmer looking to increase distance while perfecting form)?

    I am hesitant to give advice on this forum because I am new to the sport but just as an FYI for the newbies you are really lucky to have found this thead that has Steve for running, biking, Tri strategy and Scott for swimming. These guys were a big help to me last year and will have you working out with a purpose not just working out for the sake of putting in miles and laps. If you are working out with bad form or without a purpose you are just wasting your time.

    Being a recent newbie I just thought I would offer a little info on your first Triathlon swim. Arrive early and get in a small practice swim, it will take some of the nervousness away. Line up on the outside and if there are still quite a number of people in front of you wait 5-10 seconds, then go. Don't worry about doing the entire distance in your training, you can always flip over and do the the backstroke or go to your rest stroke if needed. It is good idea to have a fallback (safety) stroke because you may need it anyway if conditions get rough. Work on your form in practice, you will know what I mean after your first tri-swim and seeing a bunch of people swimming with their arms and heads swinging all over the place. If you follow Scotts schedule and get to the pool at least three times per week for 4 to 5 months you should be ready to do this safely and have confidence in yourself because you know you put in the time and trained for it the right way.

    Once again, I just have to mention that this is a great schedule for beginner swimmers. Like Scott said I think all the other sprint schedules assume you already have some swimming experience which quite a number of us do not - Thanks Scott!

    Anyway good luck and have fun!



    Edited by JREDFLY 2014-01-20 10:14 AM
    2014-01-20 11:55 AM
    in reply to: 0

    New user
    431
    10010010010025
    Hingham, MA
    Subject: Counting lenghts in the pool
    I use an ironman watch in the pool - I just hit the orange button after every 2 lengths - works pretty good and I can keep track of my time also.

    I got it on Nashbar - http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_542630_-1___202557and it is 25% today for $50 but you may be able to find it cheaper if you shop around.

    I like the watch because it also has intervals (for running) which some ironman watches don't have. It also comes in handy when I forget to charge my garmin.

    I heard the absolute end all swim watch is the Finis Swimsense for $150 - http://new.swimoutlet.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=24120&colo...

    It actually senses your turns and records them automatiacally. See DC Rainmaker review. He has some great reviews on other equipment also, including heartrate monitors.

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-reviews/finis

    Not sure if Scott adheres to this rule but I heard hardcore swimmers wouldn't be caught dead with something on their wrist.

    BTW - Love the lane marker idea though - very cool!



    Edited by JREDFLY 2014-01-20 9:02 PM
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