Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? (Page 4)
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2008-02-26 1:51 PM in reply to: #1236537 |
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2008-02-26 9:42 PM in reply to: #1235602 |
Extreme Veteran 498 Carpinteria, Ca. | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? I would say you are taking it too personally. The majority of the answers to the other thread I read were responding no, so technically it was a negative connotation, saying no is by definition negative, but at no time was it a bash on coaches, if there weren't coaches out there half the info we consider elementary in endurance sports would be a mystery. I am a DIY kind of guy, I will gladly knowingly pay double to do make something myself that I could buy ready made, as long as I can make it at least as good that is. Buying books and coming to this website is one of the ways I "coach" myself, but if I ever felt I needed a coach, I would not hesitate to hire one. But there are a lot of questions out there for the OP to answer to determine it a coach is a good fit, could be just the thing, or could be oil and water. |
2008-02-27 12:14 AM in reply to: #1235662 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? PennState - 2008-02-26 7:59 AM Yeah, get over it. There is no real animosity against coaches. I am a physician, and there are far more people who are 'anti-physicain' than anti-coach... it's just life. People are entitled to their opinions, even when they aren't the same as yours Take it all less seriously... you'll live longer How should I feel if I'm a physician AND a coach? Edited by AdventureBear 2008-02-27 12:14 AM |
2008-02-27 12:31 AM in reply to: #1236298 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? velocomp - 2008-02-26 11:31 AM But... I think that anyone can if they want to spend the time learn as much from books and experience and free resources as the coaches can teach them. Truth be told the coaches were taught or learned this stuff too. And it's not rocket science. I see where you're coming from, but the comment above is also a bit simplistic. I learned to be a doctor because I was taught by other people. Therefore anyone else can learn it to if they want to spend the time to learn, so there is no reason anyone has to go to a doctor because you can learn it yourself and be a self-doctored patient. But seriously, your point is well taken...becoming a level 3 (entry level) USA Cycling coach costs $30 and you take a book test. Becoming a level 1 (entry level) USA Triathlon coach costs about $350 and a weekend seminar with elite/olympic coaches as your teachers. The opportunity to sit down and talk with great coaches like Jack Daniels, Hunter Allen, Bobby McGee, Alan Ley on a peer-to-peer level, and be able to email them at any time for input is not something you can get from a $20 Beginner Tri Plan Book. You also should take into account your coaches educational background and their understanding of exercise physiology, nutrition, sports medicine etc. Of two Level 1 USA Triathlon coaches, one who has an MS in Exercise Physiology vs. one who is an Accountant or an Engineer...it's pretty clear which one is going to have a better educational background for coaching. |
2008-02-27 4:50 AM in reply to: #1236537 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? nancylee - 2008-02-26 2:45 PM To say that because someone is a novice, and ONLY doing sprints, there is NO need for a coach, that is elitist. People cannot judge what another person needs, and that is, I think, where the conflict developed on this thread. Do I NEED a coach? I think I do. Others might say I just WANT a coach. So who decides? Need is a pretty black and white word. Maybe "need" is the wrong word. As another poster pointed out, there are just a few "needs" in life--shelter and food pretty much encompassing them. Past that, , the desire to have a coach them becomes based on a person's wants--they want to be as fast as possible, or they want to have someone hold their hand. That pretty much sums it up, I think. Nancy--it sounds like you fall into that second group, and that's absolutely fine. There's nothing at all wrong with it, and probably a whole lot right with it. |
2008-02-27 6:35 AM in reply to: #1235602 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? |
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2008-02-27 6:38 AM in reply to: #1235602 |
Elite 2527 Armpit of Ontario | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? In many ways, I guess I've had a coach (or coaches) for the last three years - here on BT. It's been stated before, the credentials of any "coach" are questionable and open to interpretation, as amiine stated, "anyone can be a coach" but I would maintain that I've gained a plethora of training advice from the both experienced and often novice members here on BT. Without this website and forum I would be nowhere near as knowledgeable about tri training and the sport in general; what I can learn (by occasionally having to decipher and decide for myself and weed through general consensus and opinions) in a few weeks may have taken me many seasons to learn on my own or by reading books written by so-called experts. So BT is my coach. Members such as the ones that have responded to this post like amiine and the bear and many, many others here on the BT forums who are always quick to chime in when a beginner begins to be fed false or misleading responses to their posts or have no problem calling out so-called experts, are my coaches. And FWIW, the top pros and elite triathletes have the best coaches money can buy, and they still melt down on occasion.
Edited by sty 2008-02-27 6:41 AM |
2008-02-27 6:48 AM in reply to: #1236164 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? WaterDog66 - 2008-02-26 11:52 AM My issue has less to do with what they may or may not know because in the end, their message gets polluted by snarky responses and out and out insults in more than a few cases. (And they all know who they are) I reject the argument that this is a "Public Forum" and this behavior is therefore somehow acceptable. I pay a fee to be here, which, in my opinion, makes that argument less than applicable. It is that sort of arrogance that has driven me away. If they cannot communicate with me in a civil manner, then I have no use for them. I certainly don't need to pay someone to abuse me. Motivation to train is certainly not something that I have a problem with. You got personally attacked and insulted and the moderators didn’t do anything about it? weird cuz they are good at that and they would have even issued a warning… who knows maybe you did or maybe it wasn’t like that, after all there are always two sides for every story. |
2008-02-27 6:56 AM in reply to: #1238119 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2008-02-27 7:05 AM in reply to: #1238125 |
Master 2946 Centennial, CO | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? Of two Level 1 USA Triathlon coaches, one who has an MS in Exercise Physiology vs. one who is an Accountant or an Engineer...it's pretty clear which one is going to have a better educational background for coaching. I completely agree. I have a degree in kinesiology. And I trained and trained with many people during the 10 years I was in fitness. My education and experience is what made me a good trainer. Many people become coaches because they think it will be fun or because they happen to be a great athlete, but only are able to train a person as they train because they do not understand fully how each persons body reacts to stress. Luckily, I have seen many extremely knowledgable and professional coaches here at BT. From Amine to Mike Ricci and yourself included, I have been throughly impressed by the skills and knowledge displayed here. My point comes from the idea that the information is widely available and can be learned by anyone. The medical profession is a little different as it is hard to give yourself a thorough exam. I would not recommend someone self diagnose injuries. But for a healthy person to learn and create a training program for themselves, taking into consideration their needs. That is not really that hard. And they will learn a whole lot more if they put in the time to learn it themselve rather than having someone do it for them. That being said, there is a place for coaches. 1. High risk individuals (injured, sedentary). 2. People who need motivation 3. People who want support and education to reach the highest level of competition. 4. People who want someone else to teach them. I only hope most people get coaches who will teach them what they know and not just tell them what to do. |
2008-02-27 7:10 AM in reply to: #1235602 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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2008-02-27 7:15 AM in reply to: #1238244 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? PennState - 2008-02-27 8:10 AM I(although I have been sick too much this winter, but that is another story...) Stop huffing formaldehyde. Problem solved. |
2008-02-27 7:16 AM in reply to: #1238250 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2008-02-27 7:20 AM in reply to: #1238253 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? PennState - 2008-02-27 8:16 AM Scout7 - 2008-02-27 8:15 AM PennState - 2008-02-27 8:10 AM I(although I have been sick too much this winter, but that is another story...) Stop huffing formaldehyde. Problem solved. but it keeps my HR low...... I KNEW there had to be some trick...... |
2008-02-27 7:56 AM in reply to: #1238240 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? velocomp - 2008-02-27 7:05 AM I added another option above My point comes from the idea that the information is widely available and can be learned by anyone. The medical profession is a little different as it is hard to give yourself a thorough exam. I would not recommend someone self diagnose injuries. But for a healthy person to learn and create a training program for themselves, taking into consideration their needs. That is not really that hard. And they will learn a whole lot more if they put in the time to learn it themselve rather than having someone do it for them That being said, there is a place for coaches. 1. High risk individuals (injured, sedentary). 2. People who need motivation 3. People who want support and education to reach the highest level of competition. 4. People who want someone else to teach them. 5. Athletes who have no time due to busy lives and/or desire to learn in detail about enduracen training, yet they have all the motivation to train for a particualr event(s) I only hope most people get coaches who will teach them what they know and not just tell them what to do. Anyway what you mentioned on the 1st paragraph, that would be the best case scenario, but you also have to consider that when you are coaching you are dealing with different people from different backgrounds, personalities and with different specific needs. I have athletes willing to learn and understand as much as possible why we managed the periodization in a certain way or why we choose to do x or y session. One of my guys even trains a few of his friends on the side and I told him know I would be happy to help/mentor him in anyway possible. Other athletes challenge my knowledge on a regular basis by asking questions from other training approaches they read/hear somewhere and I enjoy that very much because it forces me to continue educating myself plus I’ve learned new cool stuff from other coaches that way. Yet I have other athletes with hectic jobs, families, etc and they have no time and/or desire to get into the details of training. They just want someone to set a plan for them (so they don’t have to spend time doing it) and help them accomplish their athletic goals. As a coach you have to adjust and fulfill those needs, and that is a big part of your service as a coach. You are not only prescribing a plan and that’s it, you try to help your guys cope with training while they can take care of their priorities. I agree that endurance training for 90% of the athletes (in particular in this site) isn’t rocket science and by the mere fact that if they do any training and do it consistently they will improve. I’ve said it many times before: coaching a beginner or BOP is not that difficult and anyone can do it, unfortunately these athletes are the ones who sometimes get taken advantage by some ‘coaches’ as they prescribed cookie cutter plans or spout bad advice. In the end any product or service will only be as valuable for you depending on your specific needs or perception of it and your current situation. |
2008-02-27 8:09 AM in reply to: #1235602 |
Expert 750 Harrisburg, PA | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? Probably already mentioned, but the only type of coach I personally would pay for would be a swimming coach. That is the area that has the most technical needs and usually requires someone to observe you and tell you what you doing wrong and what needs to be done. For some, like me, where books and videos aren't enough, money spent on the RIGHT swim coach/instructor is money well worth spent. |
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2008-02-27 8:09 AM in reply to: #1235602 |
Master 1831 Keller Tx | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? I don't get it. For me its accountability, and constant measurement. I pay a coach to point me in the right direction, and to keep me going that direction when I veer off the course. I respect what she says because I know she has my best interest in mind, and is not making emotional decisions about my training....I would be at this point of my IM training. You also have to look at the fact that a coach who is active in your training is more likely to get you to your highest potential faster than a book based program. Not that you can't get there on a prebaked plan, but just like a financial advisor who is good at what they do, you pay them to know what to do, just as much as you pay them to do it. I think the problems between people who don't have coaches, or people who have coaches with different plans are because not all coachs have cookie cutter programs. They aren't supposed to. Edited by Doughboy 2008-02-27 8:20 AM |
2008-02-27 8:59 AM in reply to: #1238343 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2008-02-27 9:10 AM in reply to: #1235602 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? |
2008-02-27 9:17 AM in reply to: #1238464 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? SweetK - 2008-02-27 8:59 AM I have a question about how many of those who retain coaches actually have one-on-one in person sessions versus only telephone and email communication? Well, my coach is in town, but we just communicate via email. He will type out a BOOK to me, so it works out. I have unlimited communication. He doesn't tell me how many emails I can send, etc. I knew a plan like that would not work for me...and it just seemed silly. Oh, and I still only pay $125 a month for unlimited communication. I really like that I can just send him an email asking a question and he responds within about 2 hours. I ask a question and he answers it. If I felt like that wasn't enough, I'm sure he would like me call or go see him. It's nice being able to ask someone questions about YOU and YOUR training plan... and specifics about how the training plan is working for you. |
2008-02-27 9:26 AM in reply to: #1235662 |
Elite 2608 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? PennState - 2008-02-26 8:59 AM Yeah, get over it. There is no real animosity against coaches. I am a physician, and there are far more people who are 'anti-physicain' than anti-coach... it's just life. People are entitled to their opinions, even when they aren't the same as yours Take it all less seriously... you'll live longer If you want animosity, try being a lawyer. |
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2008-02-27 9:28 AM in reply to: #1238499 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? Scout7 - 2008-02-27 9:10 AM Malmo is tremendous. It's the dirty secret that 95% of this is all pretty simple. |
2008-02-27 9:30 AM in reply to: #1238558 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? JohnnyKay - 2008-02-27 10:28 AM Scout7 - 2008-02-27 9:10 AM Malmo is tremendous. It's the dirty secret that 95% of this is all pretty simple. Yeah. I should stop spreading that around. Maybe then I could start a website selling miracle solutions to people. www.ChiaRunning.com I'm gonna be rich. |
2008-02-27 9:31 AM in reply to: #1238558 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? JohnnyKay - 2008-02-27 9:28 AM Scout7 - 2008-02-27 9:10 AM Malmo is tremendous. It's the dirty secret that 95% of this is all pretty simple. My feeling exactly, so it comes down to what is the other 5% worth to me? Marginal cost vs. marginal benefit. |
2008-02-27 9:34 AM in reply to: #1238566 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why the animosity toward Coaching and Coaches? It's like Malmo said... Coaching is about motivating and provoking you to do stuff that you never thought possible. |
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