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Truth or Fiction? (Page 2)
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 2008-03-12 1:58 PM in reply to: #1267655 |
Champion  6786      Two seat rocket plane |  Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction?kimj81 - 2008-03-12 1:50 PM ride_like_u_stole_it - 2008-03-12 9:38 AM Literature, like any other art, is a relationship between the object and the viewer, or the words and the reader. You bring yourself, and your history, beleifs, perceptions (all of your self) to the table, in the best cases, you walk away with an experience that affects (or changes) and hopefully contributes to the depth of yourself. This is true of both fiction and non fiction. Non fiction can be transformative in a very direct and easily perceptable way, you may learn to swim better, or how to make coq au vin, or lay cinderblock walls. Fiction, done well, can transform your perspective on life, or some aspect of it. Art creates a common language that ties society together and allows for the continuity of our most deeply held beliefs from one generation to the next. One can dissect the mating behaviour of rennaissance youth in a dry historical tome (and be factually correct) or you can look to Romeo and Juliet to see the meaning of such behaviour as it continues to relate to our own time. I'll stop now. Now I feel like a big loser. Though I do think you dismiss non-fiction a little too narrowly. There is so much more in the category than How-To's. You're absolutely right, I did not in any way mean to denigrate non-fiction there are biographies and histories and tales of adventure (and cycling for that matter....ahem). These can be enlightening, transformative, and do absolutely contribute to (some would say make up the backbone of ) our, or any, culture. Rather what I wanted to point out is that there is truth in fiction, and value beyond "mere entertainment". Just keep reading, just keep reading.....
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| 2008-03-12 2:14 PM in reply to: #1267168 |
Elite 3519 San Jose, CA | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? Non-fiction usually cannot hold my attention. Maybe I need the escape from reality. I like fantasy books and mysteries. And of course many of the classics. It was once said to me, that the health of a society can be measured by its art and literature, when governemnt cuts funding to these things, a noticable decline in social health can be seen. I think every type of book has its place and its reader. Some people can read a smutty novel and come away more enriched and refreshed than if they read a biography. One of my favorite authors uses social satire in his fictional writings. It is very clear that the world he writes for is a parallel to our own and the comments he makes are not only funny, witty but also wise! Fiction not only refreshes my soul, but inspires my imagination and it also often teaches me to be a better person. Edited by runningwoof 2008-03-12 2:15 PM |
| 2008-03-12 2:15 PM in reply to: #1267168 |
Got Wahoo? 5423 San Antonio | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? A good story teller, or good story at all, is universal, whether it's a story about what happened with Fido, the WW11 bomb squad doberman or Flippo the space travelling frond. Reading takes you to another place/time/existence in a way that nothing else can; in your head. It doesn't matter if it's non fiction or fiction, as long as it's good; which for me is in direct proportion to how much meaning can be infused into the fewest words possible or how well it's written. Well written words trigger concepts and context that grow and build on the textures imparted by the next and previous words. I've re-bought several of my favorite books, and have several copies of many as well. I'd never get that involved or enthralled to a movie or TV show. |
| 2008-03-12 2:22 PM in reply to: #1267168 |
Elite 3972 Reno | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? You have already dismissed the entire generas (sp?) of literature as the opposite of "truth", so I don't know where to begin. Just because novels or poems may not be a direct account of events does not mean that they do not contain truth. I just listened to an NPR discussion on themes in literature that are relative to the Spitzer debocle. Hamlet to the Scarlet Letter. good stuff. Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. |
| 2008-03-12 2:24 PM in reply to: #1267773 |
Elite 3972 Reno | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? tmwelshy - 2008-03-12 2:15 PM A good story teller, or good story at all, is universal, whether it's a story about what happened with Fido, the WW11 bomb squad doberman or Flippo the space travelling frond. Reading takes you to another place/time/existence in a way that nothing else can; in your head. It doesn't matter if it's non fiction or fiction, as long as it's good; which for me is in direct proportion to how much meaning can be infused into the fewest words possible or how well it's written. Well written words trigger concepts and context that grow and build on the textures imparted by the next and previous words. I've re-bought several of my favorite books, and have several copies of many as well. I'd never get that involved or enthralled to a movie or TV show. yup |
| 2008-03-12 2:26 PM in reply to: #1267815 |
| Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? bootygirl - 2008-03-12 3:22 PM Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. An engineer/math/numbers person who can talk to me about books/art/music is seriously the hottest thing ever... |
| 2008-03-12 2:29 PM in reply to: #1267815 |
Master 1420 Running trails in S. Ontario | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? bootygirl - 2008-03-12 3:22 PM You have already dismissed the entire generas (sp?) of literature as the opposite of "truth", so I don't know where to begin. Just because novels or poems may not be a direct account of events does not mean that they do not contain truth. I just listened to an NPR discussion on themes in literature that are relative to the Spitzer debocle. Hamlet to the Scarlet Letter. good stuff. Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. I didn't dismiss either fiction or non-fiction. If you read my original post I was asking Bters what their preference was and why. So far this has been a great discussion with a lot of different views! |
| 2008-03-12 2:33 PM in reply to: #1267168 |
Champion 6786 Two seat rocket plane | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? Cool, you just threw down post 1K in a literature discussion |
| 2008-03-12 2:39 PM in reply to: #1267168 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? |
| 2008-03-12 2:40 PM in reply to: #1267872 |
Master 1420 Running trails in S. Ontario | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? ride_like_u_stole_it - 2008-03-12 3:33 PM Cool, you just threw down post 1K in a literature discussion Kinda evens out the fact that it was in CoJ |
| 2008-03-12 4:02 PM in reply to: #1267835 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? wurkit_gurl - 2008-03-12 12:26 PM bootygirl - 2008-03-12 3:22 PM Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. An engineer/math/numbers person who can talk to me about books/art/music is seriously the hottest thing ever... Is this typical with all dancers? My better half seems to like me a little and I'm an engineer who loves opera/ballet/ and reading..... Maybe I should introduce some of my engeering friends to my SO's friends.... Oh yeah, I like fiction most. But some of my favorite stories EVER are non-fiction. Into thin air, Into the wild, and Bringing down the house. I read all of those more than once. Movies were made from all of them too. Edited by Aikidoman 2008-03-12 4:04 PM |
| 2008-03-12 4:03 PM in reply to: #1267815 |
| Elite 3130 | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? bootygirl - 2008-03-12 1:22 PM Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. in my case this has not worked.
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| 2008-03-12 4:07 PM in reply to: #1268121 |
| Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? Aikidoman - 2008-03-12 5:02 PM wurkit_gurl - 2008-03-12 12:26 PM bootygirl - 2008-03-12 3:22 PM Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. An engineer/math/numbers person who can talk to me about books/art/music is seriously the hottest thing ever... Is this typical with all dancers? My better half seems to like me a little and I'm an engineer who loves opera/ballet/ and reading..... Maybe I should introduce some of my engeering friends to my SO's friends.... Haha, I don't know |
| 2008-03-12 4:59 PM in reply to: #1267168 |
Champion 11641 Fairport, NY | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? I typically read non-fiction but I'm currently on a bit of a Mark Twain kick. Just as thought provoking as any non-fiction out there and as entertaining as the printed word gets. |
| 2008-03-12 11:21 PM in reply to: #1267854 |
Elite 3972 Reno | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? pinktrigal - 2008-03-12 2:29 PM bootygirl - 2008-03-12 3:22 PM You have already dismissed the entire generas (sp?) of literature as the opposite of "truth", so I don't know where to begin. Just because novels or poems may not be a direct account of events does not mean that they do not contain truth. I just listened to an NPR discussion on themes in literature that are relative to the Spitzer debocle. Hamlet to the Scarlet Letter. good stuff. Why do we take literature classes in high school and college, even if we are studying to be Engineers? I had a professor in college who told us this: So we do not bore others to death at cocktail parties. I didn't dismiss either fiction or non-fiction. If you read my original post I was asking Bters what their preference was and why. So far this has been a great discussion with a lot of different views! The OP was titled "Truth or Fiction". I have bolded the part that made me believe you believe "fiction" is the opposite of "truth". And now that I have reread "meh, so what, I just wasted my time essentially learning nothing", I think "dismiss" is an appropriate word. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Edited by bootygirl 2008-03-12 11:31 PM |
| 2008-03-13 1:22 AM in reply to: #1267168 |
Master 1903 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? I think both have a place. Sometimes its a physical place. Mom read to us kids when we were little (and later not so little) and even now I like a "story" before bedtime. No hard thinking, no comparative analysis on the author's viewpoint, a good story. Similarly, I need some good fiction on the train. If its 'deep' reading, I miss my stop.  Usually, non-fiction requires more concentration, so there's other times and places for that. |
| 2008-03-13 1:59 AM in reply to: #1267168 |
| Los Angeles, CA | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? A great book will be great regardless of whether it is "fiction" or "nonfiction." The reason I use quotes here is that as a person who writes novels (there is no need for the redundancy of fiction novel, the word novel means a book-length work of fiction) I can tell you that there is a lot of "truth" or "reality" that goes into a good novel, and even a book written as an objective history is still seen through the lens of the author's opinions and reasons for writing about it. Therefore, the distinction between fact and fiction in books is not as black and white as one might think. There are novelizations of real events (Norman Mailer's Executioner's Song, for instance) and memoirs and biographies that turn out to be complete fictions (James Frey's A Million Little Pieces). Even Winston Churchill's war diaries cannot be looked at as accurate history, but only the way Churchill remembered it, and anyone who reads about Churchill will soon begin wondering how fictional his recollections might be. When you read Jerzy Kosinski's novel The Painted Bird, it doesn't take long to realize that it is Kosinski's own story of his childhood escape from the Nazis across the hideous wilderness of mid-Century Eastern Europe put into the form of a story, probably to protect him from his own memories, and certainly to protect us from the realities of those events. You may enjoy reading books designated as nonfiction because you like reading about events purported to be true, or in which the characters are based on actual people, but every word is written by an author with an opinion about the person or event, and they are writing to convince you that theirs is the right opinion, sometimes even if they aren't trying to. There are many books written about World War II and the fire-bombing of Dresden, Germany, yet no historical account has anywhere near the impact of Kurt Vonnegut's brilliant account of the event in his amazing novel Slaughterhouse Five. If you're buying a novel at the checkout stand, you're choosing something written on approximately a fourth-grade level, so of course it's going to seem like a waste of time, and in fact is a waste of time. If you work your way up to William Faulkner (and just like triathlon, reading prodigious literature requires practice and step-by-step level attainment) you're going to find an author who wrote about the truths of the human condition, from his own point of view, who could render a sense of place that has rarely if ever been duplicated in literature since then, and with an amazing technique known as stream of consciousness, in which you'll actually glean the story from the thought stream of the characters. This is amazing when it happens, and is exhilarating and marvelous and satisfying as well. Judging all fiction by a book you didn't like is like saying all 47-year-old men are slow because I'm slow. Great books usually don't fall in your lap, they must be sought out. That's why when you take a literature class, the books are unfamiliar, not the ones you've seen at the chekout stand. My point is that to enjoy reading you have to seek out a good book, regardless of whether it is a novel or a work of nonfiction. Sometimes a great book is both. |
| 2008-03-13 8:19 AM in reply to: #1267168 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? I have enough 'real' life with 4 kids, my wife and I working opposite shifts, and taking care of patients, many of whom with terminal diagnosis.......thus I read mainly fiction. Well, the word 'read' should be used lightly here. I am reading a Lee Child book currently (another of the Jack Reacher series) but a lot of what I 'read' is books on cd/tape from the library. I just don't have time to grab a book and turn page after page. Listening in the car allows me to actually finish the book. As an example, I picked up my book yesterday and started reading 30 pages behind where I left off but b/c it had been so long since I had read any of it, I didn't realize it until I used up most of my lunch..... |
| 2008-03-13 2:24 PM in reply to: #1268939 |
| Subject: RE: Truth or Fiction? Scone_Mason - 2008-03-13 2:59 AM A great book will be great regardless of whether it is "fiction" or "nonfiction." The reason I use quotes here is that as a person who writes novels (there is no need for the redundancy of fiction novel, the word novel means a book-length work of fiction) I can tell you that there is a lot of "truth" or "reality" that goes into a good novel, and even a book written as an objective history is still seen through the lens of the author's opinions and reasons for writing about it. Therefore, the distinction between fact and fiction in books is not as black and white as one might think. There are novelizations of real events (Norman Mailer's Executioner's Song, for instance) and memoirs and biographies that turn out to be complete fictions (James Frey's A Million Little Pieces). Even Winston Churchill's war diaries cannot be looked at as accurate history, but only the way Churchill remembered it, and anyone who reads about Churchill will soon begin wondering how fictional his recollections might be. When you read Jerzy Kosinski's novel The Painted Bird, it doesn't take long to realize that it is Kosinski's own story of his childhood escape from the Nazis across the hideous wilderness of mid-Century Eastern Europe put into the form of a story, probably to protect him from his own memories, and certainly to protect us from the realities of those events. You may enjoy reading books designated as nonfiction because you like reading about events purported to be true, or in which the characters are based on actual people, but every word is written by an author with an opinion about the person or event, and they are writing to convince you that theirs is the right opinion, sometimes even if they aren't trying to. There are many books written about World War II and the fire-bombing of Dresden, Germany, yet no historical account has anywhere near the impact of Kurt Vonnegut's brilliant account of the event in his amazing novel Slaughterhouse Five. If you're buying a novel at the checkout stand, you're choosing something written on approximately a fourth-grade level, so of course it's going to seem like a waste of time, and in fact is a waste of time. If you work your way up to William Faulkner (and just like triathlon, reading prodigious literature requires practice and step-by-step level attainment) you're going to find an author who wrote about the truths of the human condition, from his own point of view, who could render a sense of place that has rarely if ever been duplicated in literature since then, and with an amazing technique known as stream of consciousness, in which you'll actually glean the story from the thought stream of the characters. This is amazing when it happens, and is exhilarating and marvelous and satisfying as well. Judging all fiction by a book you didn't like is like saying all 47-year-old men are slow because I'm slow. Great books usually don't fall in your lap, they must be sought out. That's why when you take a literature class, the books are unfamiliar, not the ones you've seen at the chekout stand. My point is that to enjoy reading you have to seek out a good book, regardless of whether it is a novel or a work of nonfiction. Sometimes a great book is both. Also many excellent points here |
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