General Discussion Triathlon Talk » heart rate question Rss Feed  
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2004-12-28 2:22 PM

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Subject: heart rate question
I just got a hrm for Christmas...
so I used it this morning in spinning, and my hr didn't go above 153. I am almost 28, so as far as I know, max hr is around 192 for me. (220 MINUS my age = 192)
When it was at 153 I felt like I was working almost as hard as I possibly could...
What I am wondering is this:
Is 153 high enough or should I be trying to get it up even higher?
I feel like if I went to 180 I would have a heart attack.
Is the 220 - your age = max hr formula pretty accurate?
Any help is appreciated, thank you in advance


2004-12-28 2:32 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
Search through old posts over the last couple months, there's been some good discussions. To answer some of your questions:
- The consensus on 220-age is that it is pretty much worthless for fit people. Zones determined by max HR aren't very acurate either.
- A better way to determine HR ranges may be to use the 180-age, and then tweak it up 5 (if real fit) or down 5 (if just starting), stay below this for base (i.e. aerobic) training. So for you, start with 152 and then adjust it based on your fitness level.
- You mentioned you were spinning. Most people find their HR zones are about 5-10 bpm lower for biking than running (which is what the above zone is based on). So maybe try staying b/w 135 and 145 would be a good first shot.
- I'm younger than you (26), and for base training I am definitely below 153 on the bike, more like below 145. I wouldn't worry about getting up above 153.

You'll probably get more acurate answers from smarter people, just my $0.02
2004-12-28 3:16 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
Hey Lizzie,

I think most of your training shouldn't be at your max HR. Also, I kinda remember reading somewhere that you take your Max HR and figure out your max HR at 80%, 60%, 40%... etc

I'm so rusty in this, but I know that the majority of your HR training should be done at like 40-60%.

Good luck... did your HR monitor come with a manual... I think there's directions in there for finding out the percentages.

2004-12-28 4:34 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Wisconsin
Subject: RE: heart rate question
Check out the articles from this website, I've had the same problem too, but these offer a really good max HR test and it's really easy to understand.

Adam
2004-12-28 5:18 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Keller Texas
Subject: RE: heart rate question
Hey, I got a heart rate monitor for Christmas too. And I used it for the first time at my spinning class this morning. I maxed out at 167 but averaged 134 over the hour. It is pretty cool watching my rate go up and down, but I am not sure were I really need to be. So far it is just another big boy toy from Santa.

Steve
2004-12-28 8:31 PM
in reply to: #96612

Member
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Sycamore, IL
Subject: RE: heart rate question
220-Age is pretty close estimate of your max HR. There are more accurate formulas, but this is
the standard most people use. You are 28, so max HR would be 192.
However, you typically want to exercise in the range of 65%-85% of your max HR. So your training range would be
124-163. Staying in this range will keep you aerobic, above this range will bring to closer to anaerobic training and your
lactate threshold. Staying in this range is typically known as Zone 1 to 2 training. It is alright to do some intervals at a higher HR
after you have established a base training for several weeks. Great book on HR training is Be Iron Fit by Don Fink.


2004-12-28 8:56 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
I agree there were a couple of very good articles on heart rate and obtaining your max and good work out range on here. It was a two part article.
2004-12-28 9:26 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Master
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Subject: RE: heart rate question
FYI - my actual max (seen at end of 5k races) is 12 beats higher than what 220-age would give me. I'd recommend trying to get an actual max rather than relying on a formula. And everybody is different, so don't worry if your actual max is way higher or lower than what the formula gives.

And as for the previously mentioned Be IronFit book, well, yeah, it gives a quick and dirty explanation of zones, which is good. But I think it's too simplistic as far as saying use 220-age to get max..period! Not even a mention that the formula is just a generalization.
2004-12-28 11:19 PM
in reply to: #96735

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Sycamore, IL
Subject: RE: heart rate question
Runnerx - Notice my reply stated there are betters ways to determine max HR than 220-age.
2004-12-28 11:28 PM
in reply to: #96612

Subject: RE: heart rate question
Hey Lizz - I don't know anything about heart rates, but you have a rockin' website!! I love the fish sculpture.



(sc_fish.jpg)



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2004-12-29 12:22 AM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question

Hi,

A few thoughts for you:

  • Base your training zones on tested lactate threshold (field test is ok) or percieved exertion. Age-based formulas may work for statistical populations but not for individuals. Your training zones are particular to you, not anyone else. That said, using lactate threshold as the reference point for your zones is better than max heart rate, as good things (and bad) happen according to where you're training in relation to lactate threshold.
  • In the early season you may want to use percieved exertion rather than heart rate zones. Why? I've found that it takes 6-8 weeks to accrue training adaptations that make your heart rate more "sticky," or for your zones to reflect your percieved exertion (PE, or RPE, rate of percieved exertion). In other words, in January, easy feels easy but your heart rate tells you you're about to implode....and you haven't even left the couch. I have my atheltes use PE as the primary tool, heart rate as secondary until we can do a field test, after about 8-10 weeks. At this point I've found their resultant training zones more accurately reflect their PE.
  • Field test: if you've read Friel's Triathlete Training Bible you'll recognize this one: warm up and perform a 30 minute time trial, as if racing. At the 10 minute mark hit the split button on your heart rate monitor so you can record your average heart rate for the last 20 minutes. Record this number. This is number is an often "good enough" estimate of your lactate threshold. However, one modification I often use is to employ a little SWAG. For example, if the athlete is experienced, motivated, has a history of competitive athletics, etc, I'll bet that they can hold an effort at or near LTHR for as long as 45-50 minutes. I'll subtract 5-7bpm from this number and call that their LTHR. We'll then refine it through experience.

My advice: just run, run often, and run easy to steady. What do I mean by that? Apply the test of Repeatability by asking yourself "Is this combination of volume and intensity repeatable, both mentally and physically?" In other words, could you physically repeat the workout tomorrow if you had to? More importantly, would you WANT to repeat it. If the answer is no, reduce the intensity of the session first, the volume second. Your number one goal should be to just run, frequently, week after week, month after month. That's about as sexy as it needs to be sometimes.

Cheers,



2004-12-29 12:39 AM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
Rich's advice seems sound, also:

You'll probably have a different Max HR for each sport, IE. your biking MHR will be ~10-15 beats lower than your flat running MHR will be ~5-10 beats lower than your hill running MHR.
2004-12-29 1:13 AM
in reply to: #96768

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Subject: RE: heart rate question

In my experience, max heart rate just isn't very useful. The age formula is useless. The only "reliable" method to test it is to essentially put a gun to your head and make you drill yourself up a hill. If you've ever done an MHR test it is NOT fun. If we can establish useful training zones with a less painful method, isn't that preferred?

Before you do a test, ask yourself: is the information you gain going to be useful in your training? The classic is to perform LTHR testing every month in a "rest" week. You drill yourself in March and determine your LTHR on the run is 170. You drill yourself again in April, during a rest week, and determine that your LTHR is...170. What did you learn? Not a whole lot unless you maybe determine your pace at LTHR and use that as an additional intensity measurment. But in the meantime you've tested yourself during a rest week, and probably did bike and swim test as well during that rest week. Not very restful

The HRM is a tool and just like any other it's only as useful as the skill of the user. Much of that skill is acquired through time on the road and in the saddle. Be patient and use the HRM as a window to look into your body and see how it reacts to different training and environmental stresses. THAT is very useful information on race day.

Cheers,

2004-12-29 8:01 AM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
A lot of good comments in the previous posts, but I'll throw my $0.02 in. I had open heart surgery four years ago (valve replacement), so I'm rather tuned into what's going on with my heart. The (180 - age) + 5 formula works well for me in determining my aerobic threshold, which is where I want to be during most of my training and racing. The only time I get close to my max heart rate is during my speed workouts when I'm doing short intervals followed by recovery periods. I usually feel I'm making progress in my conditioning when I see measurable performance improvement while keeping my heart rate at the same level.
2004-12-29 10:16 AM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
You guys gave me so much useful info...THANK YOU!
This morning it got up to 159 in spinning, and I noticed the difference (lots of hill sprints!!)
I am going to spend more time looking at all the info above later on, but I think the hrm is going to be most useful in seeing my progression as my heart rate stays the same but the work begins to feel easier.
Thank you all!

Oh and thanks for the compliment on my art as well I love Tim Burton, he is an influence on my sculptures....
2004-12-29 12:16 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
All this talk of determining HRmax and other parameters has me wanting to get my true values. Does anyone have a ballpark for what it would cost to have a session with a sports physiologist, get chained to a treadmill, covered with electrodes and a tube stuck in my mouth to determine the actual clinical values for HRmax, VO2max, and whatever else they measure? I suppose a cardiologist at the local hospital could do it also but I'm not sure they are very interested in helping me train for triathlons...they probably have more important issues to dal with...like heart surgery and stuff.


2004-12-29 12:57 PM
in reply to: #96879

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
TH3_FRB - 2004-12-29 12:16 PM

All this talk of determining HRmax and other parameters has me wanting to get my true values. Does anyone have a ballpark for what it would cost to have a session with a sports physiologist, get chained to a treadmill, covered with electrodes and a tube stuck in my mouth to determine the actual clinical values for HRmax, VO2max, and whatever else they measure? I suppose a cardiologist at the local hospital could do it also but I'm not sure they are very interested in helping me train for triathlons...they probably have more important issues to dal with...like heart surgery and stuff.


Fitness Concepts in Fairfax (not too far from Norfolk) charges $150 (or $115 if you bring a buddy). I've never been there and don't know anything about them. Here's the site: http://www.fitness-concepts.com/
2004-12-29 1:45 PM
in reply to: #96612

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
That's exactly what I'm looking for. That's a nice discount for bringing a friend too..I'll have to find someone else interested.

Thanks!
2004-12-29 1:48 PM
in reply to: #96910

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Subject: RE: heart rate question
Ken is a coaching colleague and good friend. He's one of the best and you can't go wrong with his help.
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