liquid calories vs solid calories

Don't use juice..I've read over and over not to use that in training..I've forgotten why but think it has to do with the type of sugar it has.

Everyone is different so your trying out your IM nutrition now is wise and you'll learn what your body can handle.  

I'm training for IM as well. My calorie goal is similar. Every 20' I take some type of food that is 35-50 calories and on the 3rd one I take a gel so that equals about 200 calories of food/gels per hour. Then I drink Gatorade Endurance. I try to drink 1.5-2 bottles of liquid an hour and I combine GE and water with nuuns for electrolytes. My coach wants me to try more solid food and see how it makes me feel.

There are a few issues, your stomach can handle only about 6-8% concentration of carbs to digest them well. So adding more calories in without more liquid can make that concentration go up and it could your digestion slow down and take blood away from your muscles to try to either digest what you took in. 

Have you done a sweat test to determine your sweat rate? You can back into how much you need to drink, how many calories you get from what you drink, then add in gels/bars/solid food.

http://www.trihardermultisports.com/THM_SwRate.aspx

Some folks train with super concentrated bottle of calories and chase it with water. I wouldn't do that as if temperatures are high or low and outside the norm often folks take in the same about of concentrated calories but not enough or to much water and it messes with the proper concentration of carbs for ideal digestion. Plenty of people do it.

Living off the stuff they have on the IM course makes it easier as you can restock on the fly and if you drop something you can get more at the next aid station.

You may want to post your question on the IM board as well. You'll get lots of different opinions and ideas. 

Disclaimer: I'm not a nutrition expert.  

If your stomach is feeling uncomfortable it may be because you're taking in too many calories per hour, especially if its in solid form.  Everyone is different, but 400 cal/hr is often too much for your body to handle.  Your conclusion that you need even more calories is a classic mistake (see #3) that athletes make with their nutrition.  Here's another article that may help.  I'm not promoting Hammer products (I use Infinit), but they have some good nutrition articles on their website.  Good luck.

I'm with Birkie.  That's a lot of Kcal.  BUT, the upshot is that you are finding out now vice right before your race. 

My small recommendation would be to go to a mix of solid and liquid (while decreasing your intake a bit) and then see if you want to go to liquid.  I made the switch to all liquid for HIM and am contemplating it for IM this year.  I will decide once I experiment and see what works.

Also, you can look at the types of bars you are taking too.  I played with 4 different types when i was taking bars.  They all digest differenctly, IMHO.

Not sure why that is the case.  Gatorade is all simple carbs like sucrose and fructose.  Same sort of simple sugars in fruit juices.  The only difference is in fruit juice they are all natural (hopefully) and not syruppy artificial corn based crap like in Gatorade.  Not too mention that fruit juices often have more electrolytes than most sports drinks.

There may be some other reason, but I've never heard of it.

imho liquid vs solid doesn't matter.  What matters is what's in the stuff and how you are taking it.  There is a critical concentration of stuff that will absorb in your GI tract.  If what you eat does not have enough water with it, it takes longer to digest and can actually start to pull water...aka gut bomb.  Certain carbs also take longer to digest then others and can delay 'gut emptying'. 

So you can't just eat a bar or eat a Gu and expect to be good.  You need to drink water in order to actually digest the stuff.  Think of a Gel as one of those frozen cans of fruit juice concentrate.  They are convenient to carry, but you still have to add water.

Personally, I find that I can stomach just about anything on the bike, but running I can only stomach certain gels.  I can tolerate Gu on long, slow runs, but not on harder tempos or racing.  Gatorade and powerade is a major gut bomb, but I can suck down hammergel all day.  I personally attribute it to the fructose levels (hammer has the least, while the drinks have the most).

Because warm OJ or apple juice tastes like a$$? 

JohnnyKay - 2008-05-06 11:10 AMBecause warm OJ or apple juice tastes like a$$? 

Yes, that is true!!  Good enough reason for me!

I also target 400 calories per hour on the bike and about 250-300 of that is solid food. I have found that Little Debbie oatmeal snack cakes (at 170 calories per pop) are great because it's not a heavy solid food. I alternated eating those with half of a clif bar, or clif shot bloks, or gummy worms. So far during my IM training it works great. I tried PB&J uncrustables last year for my HIM training and it was too heavy but the little debbies seem to work quite well. I know nutritionally they aren't great, but they work.

On the run I can only do hammergel, water, and coke. No sports drinks at all.

I'll try and look it up in my tri nutrition book I have.

On a side note I want alternative nutrition options come IM day if what I'm doing isn't working I have back up plan A, B, etc. This week my 6 hour ride/run brick I'm drinking only Gatorade Endurance about 12 bottles and 6 gels..yum yum.

On the run I have gels on the 30' & 60' and shot blok at 15' & 45' so I take in almost 300 cal/hour. Maybe being slow makes my stomach handle it better. I did a 1/2 Mary and it worked fine. I do have an iron stomach and hardly have issues.

I haven't read thru all the replies, I am 225-230 and shoot for 300-400 calories an hour.  I use 90% liquid in the form of Infinit.  On longer (6+) rides, don't get hungry.  My bike infinit has a little protien.  My run infinit is identical, just no protein.

I have gels, a payday, and sometimes a P&J, but that's just for variety, as I get sick of the same stuff after 6 hours.

See Peeing on the bike thread