General Discussion Triathlon Talk » I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear Rss Feed  
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2008-06-15 2:09 PM


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Subject: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear

Google is my friend, but it still didn't make me clearly understand what really happens in some cases.   And, with my first tri coming up, I'm a bit anxious.

OK, so I understand that in passing you have 15 seconds to complete the pass once you enter the 7 meter zone.  I also read that once the you're passed, you have to drop completely behind the zone before passing them.  And I believe I understand that you are considered to have passed a person once your front wheel gets in front of theirs and it is then their responsibility to drop out of the zone.

So what happens if the passer bogs down right after they pass?  For example, let's say rider A starts to pass rider B.  Rider A gets far enough past that his rear wheel is even with rider B's front wheel.  Then for some reason (say the grade increases and rider A isn't as strong climbing as he thought) rider A bogs down and rider B is fully prepared to ride at a significantly faster speed than rider A.  Does rider B still have to slow way down to drop 7 meters back before passing?  Or is the "must drop back before repassing" really intended to keep riders from riding side-by-side and if something like I described happened it's really within the rules.  From a strict reading, it sounds like it would be a violation because 1) rider B didn't drop back 7 meters and 2) rider B passed on the right.  But wouldn't that strict reading then apply even if something like a chain coming off, or a badly missed shift, or a flat happened to rider A???

Or maybe this doesn't ever really happen in tris, but I just know that it was common on my club rides for newer riders to think they were stronger than they were, blow past me at the base of a hill and then I'd be overtaking them 5 seconds later.  I also know that since I'm slow in the pool I'm going to be riding with some of the less experienced cyclists at first.  Basically, I want to just ride my own time trial for the bike portion, but it doesn't sound like it's that simple...



2008-06-15 2:37 PM
in reply to: #1467625

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Coach
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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
it is simple: ride staying on your ride, pass on your left, keep 3 bikes in between a rider in front, as soon as you pass and the road is clear get to the right again and if some passes you drop behind before you repass. If some passing you gets a flat or something like that they will slow down and as long as you are clear to go you'll be ok and good to go. if you dont want to fall behin someone after they pass you, don't let them pass you in the 1st place
2008-06-15 3:08 PM
in reply to: #1467625

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2008-06-15 7:06 PM
in reply to: #1467625

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
Wolfgate - 2008-06-15 2:09 PM
Or maybe this doesn't ever really happen in tris, but I just know that it was common on my club rides for newer riders to think they were stronger than they were, blow past me at the base of a hill and then I'd be overtaking them 5 seconds later.



That happened to me last year at a USAT sanctioned Olympic. Just so happened that the offical's motorcycle was behind me, taking down my number. I was going about 5mph... what am I supposed to do, stop?

Basically, respect the zone around other riders and don't draft. I think thats what the rule is trying to ensure.
2008-06-16 6:25 AM
in reply to: #1467892


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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
steves_training - 2008-06-15 8:06 PM
Wolfgate - 2008-06-15 2:09 PM Or maybe this doesn't ever really happen in tris, but I just know that it was common on my club rides for newer riders to think they were stronger than they were, blow past me at the base of a hill and then I'd be overtaking them 5 seconds later.

 

That happened to me last year at a USAT sanctioned Olympic. Just so happened that the offical's motorcycle was behind me, taking down my number. I was going about 5mph... what am I supposed to do, stop? Basically, respect the zone around other riders and don't draft. I think thats what the rule is trying to ensure.

I guess this is the most likely scenario of what I was getting at.  With the rule stating you have to pass within 15 seconds, and with so many new racers expected in my triathlon, isn't it likely that people will overcommit to what they're capable of?  Isn't it to be expected that someone will spend more energy than they really have available in order to make a pass, get in front of the other rider, and then slow way down?  And if so, does that really require the passed rider (who might have just been maintaining a steady effort) to reduce his effort even more to drop back 7 meters before he resumes his steady effort and repasses?

 

2008-06-16 9:17 AM
in reply to: #1468306

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
Wolfgate - 2008-06-16 7:25 AM

I guess this is the most likely scenario of what I was getting at.  With the rule stating you have to pass within 15 seconds, and with so many new racers expected in my triathlon, isn't it likely that people will overcommit to what they're capable of?  Isn't it to be expected that someone will spend more energy than they really have available in order to make a pass, get in front of the other rider, and then slow way down?  And if so, does that really require the passed rider (who might have just been maintaining a steady effort) to reduce his effort even more to drop back 7 meters before he resumes his steady effort and repasses?

If you don't want to have to drop back, don't get passed. 

The answer to your question is, yes, you must ALWAYS drop back 3 lengths before re-passing or risk a penalty.  It may not always be called, and I often see it broken in races, but it is the rule.



2008-06-17 4:57 AM
in reply to: #1468632

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear

If you don't want to have to drop back, don't get passed. 

Exactly (:

2008-06-17 7:05 AM
in reply to: #1470899


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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
Tri-FatBoy - 2008-06-17 5:57 AM

If you don't want to have to drop back, don't get passed. 

Exactly (:

 Which is helpful advice, really. ;-

I think the number of answers like this has also answered the question.  So even if someone passes you and then proceeds to slow WAY down immediately, you also have to slow WAY down to drop back before re-passing them.  That's clear.

So would passing and then slowing way down be considered bad form?  Or does it happen and it's viewed as just part of racing.

2008-06-17 8:33 AM
in reply to: #1467625

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear

If it's done on purpose, then surely it is bad form. But probably it is mostly done out of ignorance (of one's own ability). In running, inexperienced runners do this all the time (although the consequences are far less severe) -- they blow by you at the base of a hill, then maintain the ideal line (the one you want to run except their rear end is in your way) while gradually slowing down, so that you have to go around them to pass. Yes, it is annoying. It's the price you pay for letting inexperienced cyclists like me join your race.

When does ignorance turn into bad form? Well, I guess if someone habitually does this and fails to learn, then eventually he or she becomes officially annoying and should know better and deserves a dope slap. If a person makes the mistake once or twice and then learns from the mistake, well, as I say, one of the great things about this sport is that anybody can join, and in that case, this sort of thing will happen.

EDIT:  Now, of course that's my uninformed and inexperienced opinion.



Edited by mdickson68 2008-06-17 8:35 AM
2008-06-17 8:45 AM
in reply to: #1467625

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear

Pardon my confusion, but I have the WORST possible background on this (I used to race many years ago, so we ALWAYS drafted right up against the wheel).

It seems the key to avoiding the problem is to not be "overtaken" (don't let the front of his/her wheel get past yours), at which point the person has to either pass or fall back within 15 seconds, yes?

If you get passed, how fast do you have to "immediately" move to the rear and out of the drafting zone?

2008-06-17 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
windandsurf - 2008-06-17 8:45 AM

Pardon my confusion, but I have the WORST possible background on this (I used to race many years ago, so we ALWAYS drafted right up against the wheel).

It seems the key to avoiding the problem is to not be "overtaken" (don't let the front of his/her wheel get past yours), at which point the person has to either pass or fall back within 15 seconds, yes?

Once the person enters your draft zone from behind, the only way he can legally exit your draft zone is to pass you. He has fifteen seconds to do so. He cannot legally "fall back" out of your draft zone.

 

If you get passed, how fast do you have to "immediately" move to the rear and out of the drafting zone?

It's never been specified to me, but I assume fifteen seconds.



2008-06-17 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
the bear - 2008-06-17 10:01 AM

Once the person enters your draft zone from behind, the only way he can legally exit your draft zone is to pass you. He has fifteen seconds to do so. He cannot legally "fall back" out of your draft zone.

 

So, rider A attempts to pass rider B by entering the draft zone of rider B. Rider B speeds up and rider A cannot pass in 15 seconds. In fact, rider A cannot pass at all. Rider B drops his , thereby causing rider A to "fall back" out of the draft zone. Is this illegal on Rider A's part?

Second scenario; rider B does not drop rider A, however rider A cannot overtake rider B in 15 seconds. They are now going the same speed, and rider A cannot clear rider B's front wheel. Who is supposed to do what?



Edited by mrbbrad 2008-06-17 10:55 AM
2008-06-17 10:59 AM
in reply to: #1471548

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
mrbbrad - 2008-06-17 10:52 AM
the bear - 2008-06-17 10:01 AM

Once the person enters your draft zone from behind, the only way he can legally exit your draft zone is to pass you. He has fifteen seconds to do so. He cannot legally "fall back" out of your draft zone.

 

So, rider A attempts to pass rider B by entering the draft zone of rider B. Rider B speeds up and rider A cannot pass in 15 seconds. In fact, rider A cannot pass at all. Rider B drops his , thereby causing rider A to "fall back" out of the draft zone. Is this illegal on Rider A's part?

 Yep. Don't enter the draft zone unless you are sure you can pass.


Second scenario; rider B does not drop rider A, however rider A cannot overtake rider B in 15 seconds. They are now going the same speed, and rider A cannot clear rider B's front wheel. Who is supposed to do what?

Rider A has fifteen seconds to overtake Rider B. Again, don't enter the draft zone unless you are sure you can pass.

2008-06-17 11:09 AM
in reply to: #1471548

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Subject: RE: I've read the bicycle passing rule - but one thing's still not clear
mrbbrad - 2008-06-17 11:52 AM
the bear - 2008-06-17 10:01 AM

Once the person enters your draft zone from behind, the only way he can legally exit your draft zone is to pass you. He has fifteen seconds to do so. He cannot legally "fall back" out of your draft zone.

 

So, rider A attempts to pass rider B by entering the draft zone of rider B. Rider B speeds up and rider A cannot pass in 15 seconds. In fact, rider A cannot pass at all. Rider B drops his , thereby causing rider A to "fall back" out of the draft zone. Is this illegal on Rider A's part?

Second scenario; rider B does not drop rider A, however rider A cannot overtake rider B in 15 seconds. They are now going the same speed, and rider A cannot clear rider B's front wheel. Who is supposed to do what?

In either case, if Rider A cannot pass within 15 seconds after first entering the draft zone they are subject to a drafting penalty.  Rider B does not have to do anything and is riding legal.

So going back to the OP, if a 'lesser rider' is gunning it to try to pass you and then slow down, your options are to gun it even harder and force them into a penalty (i.e., don't let them get by you) or slow down after they get by to get out of the draft zone within 15 seconds. 

It may be 'bad form' to do this repeatedly (push past and then slow down), but it is perfectly legal.  It happens to me A LOT in longer races.  Many people ride up hills much harder than I do, but then ease up as they crest the hills.  I ride up the hills slower, but maintain my power over the top of the hills so begin accelerating much faster than they do.  If I get passed near the top of a hill, I almost always have to slow down my desired pace in order to drop back out of the zone first.  Yes, it's frustrating.  But my alternative is to ride harder than I'd like up the hills and cook my legs.  I prefer to save them for the run and pass those riders later. 

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