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2005-02-07 12:56 PM

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Subject: Chi vs. Pose
I have an ongoing battle versus shin splints. I am nearly certain it is due to my flat feet since the tenderness is on the inside of my shin. Even though I started slowly, had my orthotics updated and got some shoes to deal with pronation (& icing & advil...) the tenderness still keeps coming back. I'm taking some time off from running (again) but got thinking that maybe my technique (or lack of technique) was helping to cause the problems.

I've seen a few people mention that Pose running and Chi running have helped them improve and I think they both claim to help prevent injury. Is there anyone out there who knows what the difference between the two is or are they basically the same? Is there a big difference in your running before pose/chi and after as far as technique? Thanks.

Drew


2005-02-07 1:23 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose

I can't comment on Chi or Pose, but your situation sounds similar to mine (orthos + MC shoes + ibuprofen as daily supplement), and I found out that I had run on a stress fracture for over a year.  My podiatrist could not think above the ankle and finally referred me to an orthopedic specialist who diagnosed me correctly.  If you haven't had this looked into, especially if the pain is only in one leg, you should consider it.

2005-02-07 1:27 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
The techniques are very similar. The founder of Chi running was a participant in at least one POSE clinic prior to writing his book. When my daughter, then 11 years old, wanted to start training for triathlon last January, I spent a significant amount of time researching running technique. I spoke with her Doctor, several high school running coaches and a couple of triathlon coaches. My daughter was still quite young and I was concerned about growth plate damage. I read nearly everything on both the POSE site, the CHI site and several barefoot running sites. I chose to hire a POSE Running coach and my daughter is now a POSE runner. I am also a firm believer in less is more in running shoes. In any case, I believe the success of these running techniques is directly related to doing the drills and excercises. It is a re-learning process for most adults and it takes time to build the appropriate supporting muscles. I would suggest finding a coach or attending a clinic if you can.
2005-02-07 1:29 PM
in reply to: #113887

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
Sorry, that post was by me. I didn't know realize she was logged on. I'll half to look more closely next time.

Edited by Hermom 2005-02-07 1:29 PM
2005-02-07 3:01 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
I had the same tenderness on the inside of my shins as you did and it was diagnosed incorrectly. The first doctor said shin splints. The second doctor said hamstring tendinitis. I was able to clear it up by doing some strength training and jump roping. The second doctor said it is commonly mis-diagnosed but after reviewing my history that is what he came up with. I am now using the Chi method. I am flat footed and wear orthotics. I wear a motion control shoe but in about another month I will go to a stability shoe and see how I do. I can say that for the first time in my life I truly am running pain free. I'm not fast yet but pain free. I'll will work on speed later in the spring. I'm just happy to be running.

Mike
2005-02-07 3:11 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose

I don't know the difference between Chi or Pose.  But I can tell you what I know of Pose.

I had pretty severe ITBS as a heel striker.  I was a heel striker for about 20 years.

When I hired a coach last year he suggested I switch my gait to forefoot landing, which I did.  I had absolutely no ITBS that year of training.

I just recently hired a Pose coach to teach me the technique.  He said I was 70% of the way to running pose so I guess my "before" and "after" running technique wasn't that much different.

However, what I can tell you is that from now (running Pose as best I can) and then (heel striker) I have no ITBS trouble and am dramatically more efficient in my running!  My pace at LT actually went down running Pose vs running just forefoot landing with absolutely no training.  Now that is significant improvement in efficiency in my opinion.



2005-02-07 4:26 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose

From everything I've read it really seems to me that Chi and POSE are just slightly different ways of thinking about the same biomechanics. Efficient running technique is a matter of the laws of biology and physics. If you think about those things in terms of energy, focus, and balance as in Asian philosophy (yoga, tai-chi, various martial arts, etc.) then Chi running is goint to connect with you better. If you prefer scientific method approach to the same information and technique, then go POSE...

my $.02

2005-02-07 6:19 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
Thanks for the replies. I had a freeling they were pretty similar. I don't think its a stress fracture yet since its not pinpoint and both legs are tender, although the left one is worse. More frustrating than anything else. I've already joined the TI cult so maybe I'll be a Poser now too.

Drew
2005-02-07 6:33 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose

Interesting question. I train at a tri center in Houston where they have recently switched from a Pose coach to the Chi method. The rationale as I understand it was that the Chi method was more straightforward. Also, the coaches felt the Chi method was similar in some ways to TI, which is the swim program they use (and I am a huge advocate of as a beginning swimmer).

Also, there was an article about the Pose method in Runner's World a few months back that I felt was fairly negative. They presented pros and cons, but I felt like the cons were significant. Essentially the downside was with the Pose, one may avoid one set of possible injury patterns but inherit another.

I had my first gait analysis two weeks ago, and they will be prescribing some drills for me in keeping with the Chi method. I'll let you know if I find MY Chi......for now I'm going to sit crosslegged and hum to myself, thinking of a happy place until I can go home. :-) C'mon shift change!

2005-02-07 7:02 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
I also am flat footed and wear orthodics. I bought the complete Chi method and Pose method (DVD's audio and books). I liked the idea of Chi especially since my Yoga instructor is listed as a backer. However, I was really pissed off when I watched the video and noticed that he actually lands on his heel first when he runs. I was really dissapointed and will now focus on Pose.

Also, the drills are different as Chi has you kicking your foot back by keeping your knee down as you run but Pose has you lifting your ankle straight up thus bending your knee. Therefore, I would recommend you pick one and stick to it.

Finally, I noticed that my mid sole hurt as I ran because I was not stricking with my heel where all the pading is on my brooks beasts. Therefore, I have taken out my orthodics and am running with a different brooks shoe with less heel build up.

Edited by paulieman 2005-02-07 7:03 PM
2005-02-07 8:21 PM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
I don't think Danny lands on his heel. When I watched the DVD the first time I questioned that also so I got real close to the tv and watched and although it looks like he lands on his heel he leads his foot down with his heel and lands midfoot. That is how I saw it. I find myself doing the same. My heel leads my foot down and I land midfoot. I was kind of thrown by the shadows. I wouldn't hesiate to send him an email and question him about it. Maybe he can clear something up for you.

Mike


2005-02-07 9:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
Mike,

I played the DVD on a 50" Plasma at single step speed and watched carefully. I sent Danny an email about this in case I made a mistake.

Also, regarding the shin splints Pose indicates that if you have shin splints your are probably landing your feet too far in front of your General Center of Mass (i.e. body).
2005-02-07 9:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
Hey Drew,

I've had the same problems. Well, not shin splints anymore.... achilles tendonitis these days (which has been manifesting itself on the inside of my calf muscle about half the way up... I mention it because I thought it was shin splints at first... it's actually where the AT attaches to the muscle). Anyhow, I've been doing ChiRunning and it has really helped. I've also been going to a Physical Therapist and I feel like that will be the long term solution for me. The ChiRunning was great until I lost form or ran on uneven ground. I think the PT's approach of strengthening you to be up to the task (as opposed to making the task easier to meet your abilities... though that is helpful also) is really the solution. Time will tell, though....

Good luck!
2005-02-08 7:56 AM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
I emailed Danny as you suggested. I am attaching his response to my comment on heel stricking to be fair.

Hi Paul,
Thank you for your observations of the DVD. I’m assuming that you were viewing the section on Cadence, where there is a side-shot of me running at different speeds. I do indeed appear to be running with a heel strike...but I’m not. If you have a DVD player that allows you to slow down the motion of the picture, you’ll see that there is no weight on my heel as it strikes the ground. My ankle and pelvis are both very relaxed and therefore offering no “braking” motion to my forward movement, so something quite different is going on. By the time my body weight is supported by my leg, my center of gravity is already in front of my foot. If I were truly heel striking, my weight would be coming down onto my heel as it hits the ground, which would pound my quads and wear down the heels of my running shoes...neither of which ever happens when I run.

The phenomenon of me looking like I’m heel striking tends to happen when I’m running at higher speeds. That’s when it’s most important to not carry any tension in the legs or hips. Any stiffness would immediately translate into impact and be acting counter to all that ChiRunning hopes to further.

The best thing I could tell you to do to overcome your “disappointment” is to feel it in your own body as you run. Pictures can be deceptive, but your body doesn’t lie. If you’re heel striking, you’ll know it and feel it. If you’re not heel striking, you won’t feel anything but the ground going by smoothly underneath you.

Cheers,
Danny
2005-02-08 8:14 AM
in reply to: #113869

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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose
I resumed running about 1 year ago, after a 6 years break... I know nothing about Chi or Pose running but I like technique so I'm very interested with the subject... Can someone point me out to some useful links in the internet ?

Thanks alot !

Christian.
2005-02-08 8:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Chi vs. Pose


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