General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How much salt / electrolyte? Rss Feed  
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2008-09-11 8:05 PM

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Subject: How much salt / electrolyte?

I consider myself a heavy sweater so am thnking that salt tabs or additional electrolytes (e.g. Nuun) would be a good idea. How do I work out how much I need?

Will get some from the sports drinks, but will never do a long and hard enough training day to replicate an actual race so how do I work out how extra I should be taking in?

Thanks



2008-09-11 8:17 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
This isnt very scientific, but I havent heard of any way to do it with real specificity, people I know and myself have just experimented during training and racing.  Maybe start with 2-3 tablets/caps per hour and work up from there. My understanding is that you are trying to hold off muscle cramps, so let that be your guide. 
2008-09-11 8:25 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
Not nearly as much as you think.
2008-09-11 8:28 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
Gerrard - 2008-09-11 8:05 PM

I consider myself a heavy sweater so am thnking that salt tabs or additional electrolytes (e.g. Nuun) would be a good idea. How do I work out how much I need?

Will get some from the sports drinks, but will never do a long and hard enough training day to replicate an actual race so how do I work out how extra I should be taking in?

Thanks

Pick up some succeed tabs and dont worry about it.  Best shiznat out there IMO.   

2008-09-11 10:17 PM
in reply to: #1669169

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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

I've never cramped in training - only in 2 races:

- Century ride where I probably rode too hard too early

- 1/2 IM - same thing but then had cramps all through the run

Problem is I don't expect to do a 180km ride followed by a marathon in training to really find out what I need.

Might just try popping a few on a long ride to make sure it doesn't disagree with me, and just hope for the best on race day?

2008-09-12 12:55 PM
in reply to: #1669169

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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

Gerrard, I just upped my intake of a particular product  (Endurolytes from Hammer) this year and it has made a HUGE difference for me. No more grey tunnels, spots and just plain bad feelings at the end of races. My HR is also quite a bit lower due to the increase in what I am taking. I weigh 180 lbs and take the capsules on the following schedule:

70-80 F - 2 per hr

80-85 F - 3 per hr

85-90 F - 4 per hr

90+ - at least 5

My coach told me he has people taking 6-8 per hour. It all depends on your chemistry and how much you lose per hour. We arrived at my schedule by increasing the amounts until my body weight would drop no more than 2.5% from the original after a minimum of a 1 hr run or 2 hr bike. Hope this helps!



Edited by fcarter389 2008-09-12 12:56 PM


2008-09-12 1:25 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
I usually consume 400mg an hour in Ironman training. Anytime the temp goes over 90, I up it to 600mg. For the run, I usually do 2 powergels/hour (each gel has 200mg) plus some e-caps. I am 132lbs. I felt GREAT during the entire race, but I was covered in salt residue at the end, so maybe it was a litttle too much.

Edited by maura9900 2008-09-12 1:26 PM
2008-09-12 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

I worked a year to zoom in on what I need...I take 1000-1200-1400 mg an hour depending on the weather.

My coach helped me work it out. Normal sweat 16 oz has 400-600 mg sodium in it. Based on my sweat rate we figured out what I should aim for. I started 700-800/mg an hour and then moved up based on how it workd. It took a year of fine tuning but it works well and I'm good at telling if I need to adjust.

I switched to Powerbar Gels as they have 200 mg and they are on IM courses. Plus Gatorade Endurance..so added up all I got from food and drink and then backed into how much additional I needed. I use Lava Salts as they have about 10x as much as endurolytes and it is easier to take 1 or 2 an hour than 10.

 

2008-09-12 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

If you are cramping, then take some ... if not then dont worry about adding some to your routine if nothings wrong.  It wont enhance your performance, just prevent you from dehydrating.

Hammers Endurolytes are great, along with the Powerbar Gels which have 200mg.  I use Infinit and have about 500mg per serving.  I took several Endurolytes at IMKY 2008 because it topped out at 92F and I am prone to cramping if I dont stay on top of my sodium intake.

2008-09-12 2:46 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
grit_nugget - 2008-09-12 1:39 PM

..., just prevent you from dehydrating.



Careful here. Salt tablets will not prevent you from dehydrating. They are intended to replace the electrolytes lost while sweating during intense exercise, but electrolytes are a very small (relatively) part of sweat - the rest is water. Only liquid will prevent you from dehydrating, so make sure you are taking in enough liquid, and add electrolytes if necessary.
2008-09-12 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
grit_nugget - 2008-09-12 3:39 PM

If you are cramping, then take some ...

In general, it won't help cramping either.



2008-09-12 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
Thanks for the ideas everyone. I'll do some experimenting on the longer workouts to see what works for me.
2008-09-12 4:17 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
MinnesotaBrian - 2008-09-12 2:46 PM

grit_nugget - 2008-09-12 1:39 PM

..., just prevent you from dehydrating.



Careful here. Salt tablets will not prevent you from dehydrating. They are intended to replace the electrolytes lost while sweating during intense exercise, but electrolytes are a very small (relatively) part of sweat - the rest is water. Only liquid will prevent you from dehydrating, so make sure you are taking in enough liquid, and add electrolytes if necessary.


The tablets are used to replace the sodium, potassium and other trace minerals that you sweat out. Without these minerals, your body cannot hydrate efficiently because fluids are not retained within your body long enough to be absorbed for hydration.

Electrolyte replacement is most necessary the more you sweat and the more water you are drinking when you're active for 4 or more hours. This is the point at which hyponatremia occurs (when the body becomes dangerously low in sodium. It’s caused when you literally take in too much water)
2008-09-12 4:21 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

None.  Just more training.

You will be able to get enough through just regular sport drink consumption (actually too much in many cases) and any sort of food you intake on the course.

See johnnykay's post above about cramping.  Carmping has nothing to do with dehydration of electrolyte "depletion."

2008-09-12 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

Correct, salt tabs will not PREVENT dehydration ... but rather will assist with balancing electrolytes but you still have to take in fluids.  I really didnt think I needed to be that specific.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte

"It is unnecessary to replace losses of sodium, potassium and other electrolytes during exercise since it is unlikely that a significant depletion of the body's stores of these minerals will occur during normal training. However, in extreme exercising conditions over 5 or 6 hours (an Ironman or ultramarathon, for example) the consumption of a complex sports drink with electrolytes is recommended."(-Elizabeth Quinn, trainer and health professional[1] Athletes who do not consume electrolytes under these conditions risk overhydration (orhyponatremia).

As for cramping ... true, cramps stem from a myarid of reasons,  but saying cramping has NOTHING to do with dehydration or electrolyte depletion is absolutely false.  Generally people who ask about adding salt are looking to fix a problem, and in triathlon, its generally a resolution to cramping ... I guess I made an assumption on what the OP had in mind

http://www.triathletemag.com/Departments/Training/2007/Cramping_your_style.htm

The final and most common type of muscle cramping is nutritional cramping. Typically occurring during the summer months, especially during periods of peak heat and humidity, nutritional muscle cramping happens for one of several reasons.

 The first is dehydration. Since athletes sweat at different rates, the rate of fluid consumption required to prevent dehydration and dehydration-related cramping varies from person to person. If dehydration-related muscle cramping is suspected, increasing the amount of fluid taken during and after exercise can help. 

 A more serious variant of nutritional muscle cramping is related to electrolyte depletion, particularly sodium, potassium, calcium and magnesium. Each of these electrolytes helps create a balance of fluid and electrical charges inside the body’s bloodstream. With prolonged and intense sweating, the concentration of these electrolytes can decrease, and one of the early manifestations of this problem can be muscle cramping. It is most likely to occur in hot, humid conditions, but it can occur during any season if electrolyte replacement is not given proper consideration.



Edited by grit_nugget 2008-09-12 5:29 PM
2008-09-12 8:01 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

Sigh ....... all of that is unproven endurance excercise myth.  Just like "lifting will make you a faster athlete."

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/dehydration

Specifically look at the "Muscle Cramps: Part II" about a 1/4 of the page down.

And they are not alone in stating that.  In my study guide for my USAC coaching license it says the same thing.  There is no evidence of excercised induced cramping being correlated with dehydration and/or electrolyte depletion.

But if you listen to the sports nutrition industry, especially tablet makers and sports drink makers, you think that the world is going to end if you do not get 500+mg of sodium in your body each hour ....... when in reality you just need to make sure you take in SOME salt if you are only drinking water so that you do not run the risk of hyponatremia.  You do not need any other electrolyte than that during excercise.



Edited by Daremo 2008-09-12 8:02 PM


2008-09-12 9:09 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
Interesting......

so, what does cause cramping, and what can I do to prevent it. I've never had issues before, but at IMLou, my legs cramped so bad that I could hardly run. I pretty much OD'ed on salt, with no change, I was plenty hydrated.

any ideas?
2008-09-12 9:37 PM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
Daremo - 2008-09-12 9:01 PM

Sigh ....... all of that is unproven endurance excercise myth.  Just like "lifting will make you a faster athlete."

http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/dehydration

Specifically look at the "Muscle Cramps: Part II" about a 1/4 of the page down.

And they are not alone in stating that.  In my study guide for my USAC coaching license it says the same thing.  There is no evidence of excercised induced cramping being correlated with dehydration and/or electrolyte depletion.

But if you listen to the sports nutrition industry, especially tablet makers and sports drink makers, you think that the world is going to end if you do not get 500+mg of sodium in your body each hour ....... when in reality you just need to make sure you take in SOME salt if you are only drinking water so that you do not run the risk of hyponatremia.  You do not need any other electrolyte than that during excercise.

Interesting read ... Im a fan of that site and did not realize there was so much evidence against this 'myth.'  I enjoy drinking the koolaid and subscribe to the salt prevents cramps theory.  In my case it seems to have worked ... as with most nutritional items in this sport, what works for one person often times does not work for another and who knows what real combination of factors has eliminated my tendancy to cramp.  Its a typical piece of advice ... got cramps/take salt, and I cant explain my cure any other way.  

My fluid intake schedule, sodium supplement system makes my body happy and it would take a whole lot of courage to lean towards some of the theories described in those articles (especially since nothing is broken for me).  I find it very interesting the talk about drinking to thirst and how supplementing simply raises the sodium levels in your bloodstream, messing with your osmalality and thus making you thirstier. 



Edited by grit_nugget 2008-09-12 9:40 PM
2008-09-13 6:34 AM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?

The biggest contributor to excercise induced cramping is fitness level and training.  If you go too hard or too far compared to your level of fitness it will leed to cramping (so they say).

I've also overloaded on electrolytes and fluids and have still had cramps in many of my long races.  That is what made me look at alternative reasons as to why I was getting them in longer stuff.

Now there IS a link between muscle cramping and electolyte depletion during normal life ..... like getting "charlie horses" in the middle of the night.  That can be attributed to low levels of electrolytes.

2008-09-13 7:32 AM
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Subject: RE: How much salt / electrolyte?
Well said, Rick. I think this is very often a point of great confusion.
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