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2009-01-19 6:20 PM

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Champion
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Calgary
Subject: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon
So this is my question. I have been going out for 10ks during the week, feeling pretty good. Takes me about an hour, feels really good. I run at a 6 min/km pace, feels really good. I can also do it at about a 5:35 pace, which hurts a bit but I can make it through it.

Now, on my long runs, which are moving up to 3 or more hours now, I am working on keeping my pace constant. I suck at it.

So I am training for this 50k, working on my pace. It is driving me batty. At the start of the run I try to slow my pace down, it is painful, but I can manage to slow it to 6:15, I go like that for an hour or 80 minutes and then BOOM I start plumeting, down down down to ilke a 7:20 pace. I guess I just have to start even slower.

So I am working on pacing, man, I just wish there was a way to train the second half of a long run without going through the monotony of the first half, you know what I mean. Is there a way?


2009-01-19 7:06 PM
in reply to: #1917054

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Elite
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Austin, TX
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Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon
You shouldn't be running your long runs at anywhere near the pace of your mid-week runs. In fact, your long runs should be anywhere from 20-45 seconds per kilometer slower than your GOAL pace. You do have a goal pace, right? If not, go here: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

Now for the real issue, there are a couple of ways to get your body ready for that second half. One is the fast finish run. McMillan has a great description of it, too: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/marathonlongrun.htm

Another method is to run the middle third of your run at your goal pace, and then slow down again for the final third.

ETA: These runs should be alternated with your long slow runs, not done week after week.

Edited by dgunthert 2009-01-19 7:07 PM
2009-01-19 7:27 PM
in reply to: #1917054

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Champion
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Calgary
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon
That really helped, thanks.

Part of the problem is I don't really have a recent race time. But I have done 10k in 55 minutes in training so I put that in there.

I will try that fast finish. I have read all that stuff before but I am so immature when it comes to running a lot of it goes over my head, and then I forget about it and don't come back to it when I am ready for it.

Thanks.
2009-01-20 7:28 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Runner
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon

This works:

Long run Saturday.  Medium-long run Sunday.  That run on Sunday will be on tired legs.

2009-01-20 7:49 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Bob
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Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon

Don't forget to keep up on your nutrition and hydration. This plays a huge role in any runs 1 hr or longer. Start your sugar intake early and keep on it every 20 or 30 minutes to keep the glycogen stores tapped off.

In the 2 marathons I have done I have negative split both of them and passed 30-40 runners in the last 6 miles and I attribute a good part of that to keeping up with my nutrition.

Good luck!

2009-01-20 10:38 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Champion
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Calgary
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon
Okay, so this is a stupid question:

How am I going to be able to run a Marathon at 6:08 / km when my long training runs are run at 6:30 / km?

Is the answer as simple as saying that, "it is going to hurt a lot for the second half" Because maybe that is the answer, as I have done a half training run in 2:10 including a warm up and cool down and still felt pretty good and I just have to suck it up for the second half.


2009-01-20 10:59 AM
in reply to: #1918024

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Elite
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Austin, TX
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Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon
Your training runs are slower because you need to be able to keep training in the days after it. The marathon is faster because you're not worried about the next couple of days or even the next couple of weeks.

Look at it this way. Your training plan (random example) says to go do a 20-mile run on Sunday, take Monday as a rest day, and then run again on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. If you're training right, you can do that. Also, if you're training right, you'd be able to go a lot faster on Sunday if you didn't care if it wiped you out completely.

I encourage you to use the paces the McMillan calculator gave you IF you've got a decent reference time (PR for a 10k or longer). I've found it to be pretty accurate and an excellent tool.
2009-01-20 11:03 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Master
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Tiger's Den
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon

My coach has me do my long runs with varying paces. For example, when I was doing my IM training, a long run of 20 miles mile go something like this....

5K warm up

5 X 5K where 1,3,5 are at 10K pace, 2 & 4 are at MP.

balance cool down.

She is famous for giving me long runs where the speed work is at the end. Another example for me might be 5 mile warm up, 5 miles at MP, 1 mile ez, 2 miles HM pace, 1 mile ez, 2 miles at 10K pace, 1 mile ez, 1 mile at 5K pace, 2 miles ez cool down.

I have had very few long runs where it was all ez pace. In fact, maybe in 2 years I might have had 3 or 4.

2009-01-20 11:17 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Bob
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Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon

The second 1/2 of a marathon doesn't have to hurt. Aside from nutrition, as I mentioned before, you will also be rested and tapered. A lot of people forget about that. Your pace can easily be :30 to 1:00 faster being tapered well from your long run paces.

It's important to go into the race relaxed and ready rather than nervous and tense.

2009-01-20 11:36 AM
in reply to: #1918095

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon

rstocks3 - 2009-01-20 12:17 PM It's important to go into the race relaxed and ready rather than nervous and tense.

And adequately trained* .......

(*Adequately trained varies per individual fitness level and past training experience.)

2009-01-20 11:47 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Elite
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Alturas, California
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon

I just did my first marathon, so yay I get to comment on this.  Ya long runs were at around a 10 min per mile pace sometimes 11 min per mile pace depending on fitness, fatigue etc. 

For me the guiding principle was percieved effort.  I ran my entire marathon by percieve effort, basically at a conversational level z2 or whatever.  This put my first half as faster than my second half because it was much harder to run that last 4 miles than it was to run the first 13.  I was able to not walk at all. 

Basically you need to build up the endurance at a pace you can maintain so that you can maintain a pace at a given percieved effort level.  You can then inch up the pace while maintaining the same effort on the long runs.  On your other runs you work on improving speed, and ramping your system to have more power, red blood cells, fast twitch mucles, all that stuffs.  But on the long runs you need to develop that staying powa to get you to the end without burnin to a crisp and walking 6 miles. 

Anyway my 2 coppers, follow a decent plan, get in 3-4 20 mile runs and get weekly vollume up to 45-50 miles per week and you will be ok in a first marathon (at least that was my plan and it worked well for me). 

Oh and it was true about the taper knocking that much off.  I did a 21 mile run 3 weeks before the mary at a 9:15  pace and ran the marathon at an 8:40 pace, almost 30 min off what I had expected due to that taper and race effort (ya I tossed in another 15 min based on assuming I would drop off from the 9:15 pace over the last 5 miles to make up the difference in the math there). 

 



Edited by Baowolf 2009-01-20 11:52 AM


2009-01-20 11:56 AM
in reply to: #1917054

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Bob
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Binghamton, NY
Subject: RE: how to practice the "second half" of a marathon or half marathon
I think your volume can be much lower than that if you are doing a lot of bike training. The long runs are important but I was only doing 20-25 MPW in the month before Steamtown Marathon in October. (My running volume has never been very high but I did have a very good base with IM training.)
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