So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... (Page 2)
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2009-01-21 1:30 PM in reply to: #1920518 |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Daremo - 2009-01-21 1:10 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 1:32 PM Daremo - 2009-01-21 12:15 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:40 PM EDIT:I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically incapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. That is not really right. What's "not right"? I understand the rules; I was simply stating that I have never observed it in the races I've participated in or watched. Which is why I would think someone would really stand out if they chose to do so. Wow, pretty touchy aren't we? You stated you understand the rules. But in your previous post you said that the person wearing it either did not understand the rules or is incapable of swimming without it. Two very not-so-nice things to say. Because you have demonstrated that you do NOT understand the rules. The rule states (verbatim): Now, if you choose to be judgemental about whether or not someone has chosen to race within the rules albeit intentionally deciding to not go for AG placing, then that is entirely up to you. But to me, that is not very "Beginner Triathlete" like .......... Thanks for your post. Edited by lisac957 2009-01-21 1:31 PM |
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2009-01-21 1:39 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Ok, so it appears the majority would not wear one at above 78....I didn't think there was any doubt as to the legality of wearing one...It is totally legal....It was more a question for those who show up to do a race for the sake of doing the race. Someone said those who wear it are in it to "just finish" (or something close to that)....My response to that is: What percent of us are REALLY in it with a shot to podium? After all this is BEGINNER triathlete...But that, finishing, is always my goal....I ain't gonna be marked by the fast guys as a threat!! I posted the question from a personal standpoint of: I have swam (swum?) 1.2 miles, well, actually done 2.5 without stopping in a 50m pool, so I know I can do the distance. I have done an Oly in the ocean...I guess that distance is something like .93 mi in the swells and chop... I am NOT in contention to podium. My last race, the overall 2nd thru 4th place finishers were all in the 40-44 AG...MINE....So that isn't a concern....So if I don't use one, I expend more energy to still finish MOP...where I finished all 5 of my races last Summer. Is there REALLY a difference? I would NOT be cheating. It isn't like people who draft on the bike and cheapen their own experience. I would be doing the distance. Is 2 tenths of a degree and no wetsuit worth not wearing one??? I haven't made up my mind. I doubt it's over 78. Last year it was 77 point something and they obviously looked for a cold spot to get that reading. The consensus was it was probably 79+....anyway....i'll keep pondering and putting in the laps.... |
2009-01-21 1:59 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I think using it in warm water is defeating the true intentions of the wetsuit. They are there to keep you warm. Now, we all know that they make you faster in the water as well (especially for slower swimmers). By eliminating the the safety issue, you are only using it for speed. Now I suppose if the water was extremely rough safety would jump back into the equation so I would have a different take. If the reason is that you are worried about completing the swim without a wetsuit b/c of ability, the purist in me says go train more. Hypothetical: Would you draft on the bike if the result wasn't a penalty, but merely taking you out of contention for awards?
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2009-01-21 2:22 PM in reply to: #1920630 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... tjfry - 2009-01-21 2:59 PM I think using it in warm water is defeating the true intentions of the wetsuit. They are there to keep you warm. Now, we all know that they make you faster in the water as well (especially for slower swimmers). By eliminating the the safety issue, you are only using it for speed. Now I suppose if the water was extremely rough safety would jump back into the equation so I would have a different take. If the reason is that you are worried about completing the swim without a wetsuit b/c of ability, the purist in me says go train more. Hypothetical: Would you draft on the bike if the result wasn't a penalty, but merely taking you out of contention for awards? I would imagine that USAT made the rule since there are many people who are not comfortable in the water and it does tend to be the one predominant part of the sport that gives people the most uncertainty. But they also recognize the physiological issues and as such do not allow anyone to wear one over 84 (as listed in the rule I posted) to avoid overheating. I've personally done a practice 4,400 in the pool in my wetsuit before IMFL. The pool temps were around 80 - 82. I survived ...... but I also briefly stopped every 500 for a quick drink. As for the hypothetical? Me personally, never. But it would be too hard to enforce first of all, and second would pizz off people like me who would end up with a train behind them. and the energy savings from a swim draft (which is legal) or a wetsuit buoyancy benefit (say 5 - 10 seconds per 100 in perfect conditions) are not nearly as beneficial as drafting on the bike. All you have to do is look at the 40+ year old women setting 2:15 splits down in Clearwater for that ......... |
2009-01-21 2:31 PM in reply to: #1920518 |
Extreme Veteran 961 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Daremo - 2009-01-21 1:10 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 1:32 PM Daremo - 2009-01-21 12:15 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:40 PM EDIT:I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically incapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. That is not really right. What's "not right"? I understand the rules; I was simply stating that I have never observed it in the races I've participated in or watched. Which is why I would think someone would really stand out if they chose to do so. Wow, pretty touchy aren't we? You stated you understand the rules. But in your previous post you said that the person wearing it either did not understand the rules or is incapable of swimming without it. Two very not-so-nice things to say. Because you have demonstrated that you do NOT understand the rules. The rule states (verbatim):
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2009-01-21 2:36 PM in reply to: #1920669 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Daremo - 2009-01-21 2:22 PM I would imagine that USAT made the rule since there are many people who are not comfortable in the water and it does tend to be the one predominant part of the sport that gives people the most uncertainty. But they also recognize the physiological issues and as such do not allow anyone to wear one over 84 (as listed in the rule I posted) to avoid overheating. I've personally done a practice 4,400 in the pool in my wetsuit before IMFL. The pool temps were around 80 - 82. I survived ...... but I also briefly stopped every 500 for a quick drink. As for the hypothetical? Me personally, never. But it would be too hard to enforce first of all, and second would pizz off people like me who would end up with a train behind them. and the energy savings from a swim draft (which is legal) or a wetsuit buoyancy benefit (say 5 - 10 seconds per 100 in perfect conditions) are not nearly as beneficial as drafting on the bike. All you have to do is look at the 40+ year old women setting 2:15 splits down in Clearwater for that ......... One could argue the time advantages of bike drafting vs wetsuits (Someone I train with swam a 1:20 IM with a wetsuit, 1:47 without) and I know I'm not happy if a wetsuit clad swimmer grabs my feet when it's too warm to wear one, but hypothetically, you could still compare the two. If the only reason is too go faster and make it easier and the rules read:
sanctioned by USA Triathlon up to and including a headwind speed of 15 mph. When the wind speed is at or greater than 15 mph, age group participants may draft at their own discretion, provided however that participants who draft within this wind speed range shall not be eligible for prizes or awards. The draft policy for elite athletes shall be determined by the USAT Athletes Advisory Council. Would you draft? (I may have opened a can of worms here...) |
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2009-01-21 2:52 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
2009-01-21 2:53 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... If it's legal, I wear it; if it's not, I don't. Simple as that. |
2009-01-21 3:13 PM in reply to: #1920754 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... mmrocker13 - 2009-01-21 3:53 PM If it's legal, I wear it; if it's not, I don't. Simple as that. "Legal" as in <78.1 or "Legal" as in <84??? Less than 78.1 IS technically legal, just not award-worthy |
2009-01-21 3:49 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Master 1524 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... lisac957, wow!! okay I don't have 10,000 posts under my belt, am not an expert on the rules and regulations, and am by most standards (starting my 3rd season) and true BEGINNER TRIATHLETE, and i have to tell you, I have not found you to be judgemental OR touchy in the least. An opinion question was posed, and I had the very same exact opinion, if I saw someone in a wetsuit when it was not wetsuit legal.... that either 1) they didn't understand the ramifications (be it passing up the ability to place or break the "rules", however you wish to define it" or 2) they felt like they needed it from either an ability or comfort level perspective (and i further agree that that individual still had some training to do before actually competing in a tri) as a true BEGINNER TRIATHLETE and relatively new blogger I can assure you that there have been people on this site that I find to be "holier than thou", and I can further assure you, it isn't you. I wouldn't take any of this conversation to heart. don't wear the wet suit dude. even if you aren't going there to compete against other people, I would feel (personally) like it was giving me an unfair advantage. Part of the fun of triathlon (i think) is seeing how you improve against others in your age group. You can't fairly gauge that if you don't start on a level playing field. |
2009-01-21 3:57 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... |
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2009-01-21 4:04 PM in reply to: #1920900 |
Master 1524 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... ChrisM - 2009-01-21 4:57 PM I have worn wetsuits in races in which other people did not. I was training for ironman arizona and using the race as a simulation day. It was wetsuit "legal" Just as the OP's race is "wetsuit legal" And the reaction would be (1) you didn't know the rules or (2) you're a crummy non wetsuit swimmer? Hmmm I think you need a new set of assumptions That is awesome that you chose to use it as practice for an Ironman, but I think as a general rule lisa's assumptions would hold true. do i have stats to back it up, no. but something tells me that the people I hear talking before a race hoping the temp is low enough to permit wetsuits aren't all training for ironman's. short of commissioning a study, we'll never know. awesome for you to make the call to help in a future race, though. great race planning. |
2009-01-21 4:08 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Extreme Veteran 344 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I'm not sure anyone is really being judgmental on this thread but we need to understand that different RD's will impose different rules around the country. From what I have seen around the Southeast, anything between 78.0 degrees and 82.0 you are still allowed to wear your wetsuit, you are just in contention for awards. Past 82 and it is illegal, interesting to see that in some parts it goes up to 84. In my opinion, anything over 76 and I am miserable in a wetsuit, so I wouldn't tell somebody they should do it. But hey, whatever floats your boat I say as long as it's within the rules, and 78.1 is to my understanding so have at it! |
2009-01-21 4:09 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Extreme Veteran 344 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Sorry, meant to say anything between 78.0 and 82.0 and you are NOT in contention for awards. |
2009-01-21 4:17 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Master 1726 Sacramento, California | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Well to add some levity to this discussion I just wish that this was an issue at some of the tris I am thinking about doing...Living in the upper midwest we are lucky to get Open Water temps anywhere near 78 or 78.1 |
2009-01-21 6:55 PM in reply to: #1920878 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... hooslisa - 2009-01-21 4:49 PM okay I don't have 10,000 posts under my belt, am not an expert on the rules and regulations... ........don't wear the wet suit dude. even if you aren't going there to compete against other people, I would feel (personally) like it was giving me an unfair advantage. Part of the fun of triathlon (i think) is seeing how you improve against others in your age group. You can't fairly gage that if you don't start on a level playing field. Right. And if someone has aero wheels or an aero helmet or a $5k wind tunnel tested bike it doesn't feel like it is giving them an unfair advantage? Everyone should be on fixies with the same gearing wearing nothing but a speedo? And you are only allowed a maximum of 5 training hours a week total for all 3 disciplines? Glad you like to race against a level playing field ..... since there is no such thing. And way to backhand people but with sugar on top ........ holier than thou?? Sheesh. Gawd forbid someone should try to help others understand what is "allowed" and what isn't. Aren't we here to help people understand the sport better and advance their knowledge and/or to learn more ourselves? |
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2009-01-22 6:36 AM in reply to: #1921264 |
Master 1524 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Daremo - 2009-01-21 7:55 PM Gawd forbid someone should try to help others understand what is "allowed" and what isn't. Aren't we here to help people understand the sport better and advance their knowledge and/or to learn more ourselves? helping and teaching, awesome. Yours was a debate of semantics. Not necessary. we all understood from the first post the ramifications. |
2009-01-22 7:13 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Regular 501 Essex, England | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I wish we had water temperatures near 78.1 !!!! My 2 OWS races had water temps of 59 and 66 and they were in June and August in lakes !!!
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2009-01-22 9:18 AM in reply to: #1920796 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... 78. I'm certainly not winning anything, but IMO, that's the standard for "legal". |
2009-01-22 9:32 AM in reply to: #1920113 |
Master 2073 The Redlands, FL | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... JorgeM - 2009-01-21 11:32 AM no, I wouldn't wear it. that's why I train and prepare myself to be able to complete the distance with or without one; for me that is a challenge I want to be ready to tackle... +1 An here in South Florida is not usual temps below 78...except by this time....from Nov to March... Edited by velorider62 2009-01-22 9:34 AM |
2009-01-22 9:39 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Veteran 306 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I'll be different. I pray for water temperatures in the 80+ range...so that I can be comfortable without a wetsuit, but if its 83.9, I'll wear the wetsuit. I won't be eligible for awards anyways, and perhaps my swim will could be a tiny bit faster, but I'll wear the wetsuit becase I AM COLD.
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