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2009-03-09 9:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio

caelric - 2009-03-08 10:30 PM Oh, something else to mention.  If you are creative, you can do some interesting things with gearing, cogs, and cassettes.  Theres a guy in the tri forums of Bike Forums.net that uses an XTR rear derailleur (fomr a MTB) with an 11/32 cassette on his tri bike.  He needs the XTR derailleur to match the vast difference in size between an 11 and a 32 cog.  It gives him the top end of an 11, with the climbing power of a 32.  However, the spacing between gears is interesting...

I've gotta ask .... why???  Is he training in the frickin' Dolomites???

I get sick of the fact that in my easy range (on an 11-23) I have to jump 2 teeth sometimes and I'm often "fishing" for the gear I like.  With an 11/32 you have 3 to 4 teeth jumps ...... no thank you!!



2009-03-09 9:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
Daremo - 2009-03-09 7:13 AM

I've gotta ask .... why???  Is he training in the frickin' Dolomites???

I get sick of the fact that in my easy range (on an 11-23) I have to jump 2 teeth sometimes and I'm often "fishing" for the gear I like.  With an 11/32 you have 3 to 4 teeth jumps ...... no thank you!!

 

Lives in a hilly area, I guess.  It might be useful for some of the hillier tris.  Oceanside (CA) 70.3 is pretty hilly, along with others in CA that are quite hilly.

2009-03-09 9:47 AM
in reply to: #2004096

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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
I just want a couple more granny gears and don't know if it's best to change from a 11-23 rear to a 12-25 or 12-27 rear ... or instead keep the 11-23 and get a compact crank.
2009-03-09 10:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
You will typically get more variety by changing out the cassette (not to mention it is much cheaper).
2009-03-09 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
klowman - 2009-03-08 8:58 PM
My question is about up hills though ... I  need more climbing power.  So trying to figure out of it would be better to go from my 11-23 rear cassette to a 12-25 or 12-27 ... or keep the 11-23 and go to a compact crank.


Yes. Just change out your cassette. Standard crank w/11-23 is pretty tough (for me) in hilly areas. Standard crank w/12-27 and most intermediate riders would do fine even in the Triple Bypass (~120m, ~12k climbing).

On ebay new Dura Ace cassettes cost about $100 except for the 11-27 which is more. You'll also need a chain whip ~$25. Takes about two minutes to switch them out and you can find videos on the 'net to show you exactly how.

Once you buy the parts, matching gearing to terrain is free speed in a race.
2009-03-09 2:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio

breckview - 2009-03-09 11:48 AM
klowman - 2009-03-08 8:58 PM My question is about up hills though ... I  need more climbing power.  So trying to figure out of it would be better to go from my 11-23 rear cassette to a 12-25 or 12-27 ... or keep the 11-23 and go to a compact crank.
Yes. Just change out your cassette. Standard crank w/11-23 is pretty tough (for me) in hilly areas. Standard crank w/12-27 and most intermediate riders would do fine even in the Triple Bypass (~120m, ~12k climbing). On ebay new Dura Ace cassettes cost about $100 except for the 11-27 which is more. You'll also need a chain whip ~$25. Takes about two minutes to switch them out and you can find videos on the 'net to show you exactly how. Once you buy the parts, matching gearing to terrain is free speed in a race.

Cool!

Thanks for the info!  I probably could've searched prices on compact cranks, but it seems there are always other hidden costs involved plus how hard it is to change them out.

Sounds like it is pretty easy to change a rear cassette (I imagine changing a crank would be harder) ... and I guess you are saying that if I keep the 11-23 around and I have a race that is flat i could put it back on to pick up that extra high gear for speed.

Thanks again all.



2009-03-09 4:00 PM
in reply to: #2006752

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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
klowman - 2009-03-09 1:44 PM
and I guess you are saying that if I keep the 11-23 around and I have a race that is flat i could put it back on to pick up that extra high gear for speed


Heck yes. But it doesn't matter that much on flat courses since it's tough to push 53/11 on flats (for me anyway). But any hilly course that you can sufficiently get up all the hills in your 39/23, use the 11-23 and then you get the 53/11 for the downhills. It's free speed.
2009-03-09 7:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio

The pros can spin out cadences of 140+ rpm no problem. The sprinters can even get above 170 rpm on rollers - check youtube - they look ridiculous, but it's amazing.

Keep in mind you'll gain a lot more time by being a monster on the hills (or flats) versus trying out to max out your downhill ride. Average speeds from flattish professional time-trials are usually 30-35 mph, which is at the upper limit of a compact crank. (But yes, pros will go 50-60+ on downhills on mountain courses.)

2009-03-09 10:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
agarose2000 - 2009-03-09 8:16 PM

The pros can spin out cadences of 140+ rpm no problem. The sprinters can even get above 170 rpm on rollers - check youtube - they look ridiculous, but it's amazing.

Keep in mind you'll gain a lot more time by being a monster on the hills (or flats) versus trying out to max out your downhill ride. Average speeds from flattish professional time-trials are usually 30-35 mph, which is at the upper limit of a compact crank. (But yes, pros will go 50-60+ on downhills on mountain courses.)

Wow!

I estimate that I get between 37 and 40 mph on my downhills ... I actually spin out on my 53/11 gear ... but then again that is probably only around 95-100 rpm's for me ... I'm sure the pros can spin at 120+ like you say .. so I can see the 50-60 mph ...

But I agree, I would improve my overall bike segment time more by getting faster on hills and flats... cause even though I can go fast on the downhills ... they are over with so quickly that it doesn't gain me much overall ... (see my ealier post about wether people pedal the whole downhill or coast some) .... but hill climbing I'm weak at ... so I need some lower gears.

On flats I get up to about the 53/15 or 53/14 gear ... which according to Bear's chart would be about 27- 30 mph ... which I guess isn't too bad ... but going up even slight inclines I'm in 39/21 or 39/23 .... which means only 13- 14 mph ... but my cadence is also way slow, about 60-65 ... so really maybe only 7-8 mph .... so if I could improve that, that is what I need the most.

2009-03-10 12:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio

Your downhill ability actually may have little to do with your power/endurance, and more with your bike handling skills.

I did a big climb last weekend, and there's a 3 mile bomb downhill on the backside, where we cyclists go as fast as the cars, routinely 40+ in stretches. You don't have to pedal much - I had a 65 year old cyclist (not a super strong one either) riding right on my tail at 45mph, no problem.

I'd also be surprised if you could max out your bike gearing on flat surfaces for more than 3 minutes. 30mph on a true flat for 2-3minutes would be a respectably strong showing, and something that a beginner Cat5 bike racer might be able to crank out. Where I am, even the slower Cat5 riders are strong enough to have the fastest bike splits if they entered small local triathlons, and they are strong enough to aggressively ride anything <6% incline. Don't even ask about the Cat3s and above - those guys power up 15% inclines like no tomorrow!



Edited by agarose2000 2009-03-10 12:15 AM
2009-03-10 9:04 AM
in reply to: #2007684

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Subject: RE: Help me understand cranks/cassette ratio
agarose2000 - 2009-03-09 11:14 PM
Where I am, even the slower Cat5 riders are strong enough to have the fastest bike splits if they entered small local triathlons,

Only if your "small local triathlons" are very talentless. Cat5 riders have less than ten mass race starts or they'd be Cat4. "the slower Cat5 riders" would include those at their very first licensed race. And of course, they'd have to swim before the ride and then save up some energy to run after the ride.

The whole road vs. tri cyclist thing is silly. Cycling is all about miles. Ride 8-10k miles a year and anybody can be cat3 if they race a lot.


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