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My swim video - please critique
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 2009-05-11 9:25 PM |
Member 38 |  Subject: My swim video - please critiqueOK. I've yet to do a triathlon and I'm working on my swimming. I'd like for ya'll to tell me what you think ... I've been to a Master's swim class but don't get much feedback. It's 6 minutes long ... the first 2 minutes or so is head on, the middle 2 minutes is from the side and the last 90 secs is just me swimming a little faster because I think I may change my stroke slightly. Thanks for any input. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF0-40FYqBA |
| 2009-05-11 9:29 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
Pro 4189   Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Will post tomorrow, tried to form a better critique, but my pain killers/sleep pills are kicking in and I'm getting crazy. |
| 2009-05-11 9:30 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
Veteran 195 Millstadt, IL | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique I'm no swim expert, only been doing it for a short time myself, but it looks to me like you're not rotating your body on both sides. You roll on your left side to breath, but you never really roll on your right side. I think if you focus on swimming longer you'll get that rotation from the other side, which should help propel you through the water. |
| 2009-05-11 9:57 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
Veteran 139 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique I just watched the first minute or so. It looks like your head might be down under water a little to much. Also, I can't tell with your arms, but when they are going under you, almost want them to cross underneath rather then going straight. you might already be doing this, can't tell. |
| 2009-05-11 10:15 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
Extreme Veteran 689 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique i'm no expert but it looks like you're not finishing your stroke on both sides. what another person said you should try to be longer in your stroke. During your pull, your opposite arm/front arm sinks a little before you start your catch.. |
| 2009-05-11 10:50 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
| Member 6 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique From what I could see in the video, I would say that your arm position and stroke turn-over is where you could improve. From the point of view in the video, your stroke resembles what is called a catch-up stroke - where each hand waits in the forward position for the other to catch-up before starting the next pull. I would start with getting down the arm stroke first, then work on increasing your turn-over rate. Once you get the arms down, read up on body rotation and kick speed. Good - Luck |
| 2009-05-11 11:02 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
| Member 6 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Sorry, for clarity, the catch-up stroke looks to be stalling your forward movement. Consider moving your arms through your stroke in more opposing positions - one forward, one back etc. |
| 2009-05-11 11:16 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
Expert 977 Huntington Beach | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Your stroke looked much better in the final minute of the video (when you sped up a bit). When you were going slow your stroke did look a bit like a catch-up stroke. You should really work on alternating the sides on which you breath. Try breathing every third stroke. Based on the sweet words of your wife/girlfriend as she videos, you are blessed to have a personal cheerleader.  |
| 2009-05-12 1:10 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Regular 69 Spokane WA | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique I swam competitively in high school, and my advice is worth what you paid for it. It looks to me like you are cutting your arm stroke short. You should extending your arm backward to finish your stroke. Your hands should exit near your hips. Think long arm strokes. I reviewed the video again, and your left arm is not extending as far back as your right. Maybe try some drills with arm paddles. Edited by photonic 2009-05-12 1:17 AM |
| 2009-05-12 1:31 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique I like the fact that you are alternating breathing...not by breathing every 3, but by breathing towards the same side of the pool with each length that you do...first to the right, then to the left, so good work on that. Your arms seem to cross over (or cross under) as you pull through the water. I think you are losing a lot of forward propulsion by failing to keep a high elbow on the power stroke. Your arm sinks, your hand slinks through and you pull out of the water early...more pronoucned in the non-breathing side arm, and more pronounced when you are breathing to the right (and pulling the left arm out early) I think you are using a lot of energy in your kick...there is a lot of churn in the water. While I am a big advocate of the kcik adding propulsion to an already good arm stroke, I am not a fan of the reverse (making up for lack of forward movement in the arms by kicking harder). Finally I also think you looked better when you sped up. Just because you are doing a "slow easy" set does not mean that you should not try to achieve maximum forward propulsion with your arms...the form of your pull stroke should not change significatnly when you speed up, just your cadence (and therefore the force of the pull). Watch this: http://www.haloswimtraining.com/guest/index.php Click on teh "HEC" link on the right, "High elbow catch" as well as teh Power Stroke video PS My advice is also worth what you are paying for it. Also remember that opinions are like belly buttons (everybody's got one) Edited by AdventureBear 2009-05-12 1:32 AM |
| 2009-05-12 4:46 AM in reply to: #2144886 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique swim1blue - 2009-05-12 12:50 AM From what I could see in the video, I would say that your arm position and stroke turn-over is where you could improve. From the point of view in the video, your stroke resembles what is called a catch-up stroke - where each hand waits in the forward position for the other to catch-up before starting the next pull. I would start with getting down the arm stroke first, then work on increasing your turn-over rate. Once you get the arms down, read up on body rotation and kick speed. Good - Luck This is what struck me the most too. My first thought was that you were doing the catch-up drill - especially with your right hand. Your left arm doesn't start it's pull until your right hand is almost beside the left - the right arm is a little better but could still use some work. I also think you need to extend your reach some more, this will help with rotation. You get some decent extension with the arm opposite your breathing, try to get that on both sides. Overall, it's not that bad. Assuming that's a 25 meter or yard pool, you swam the 100 m/y in about 1:36 so you are doing something right. Keep it up! |
| 2009-05-12 6:01 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Ditto on the catch-up stroke and not finishing past your hips. Also...dude...what's with the trunks? |
| 2009-05-12 7:26 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Pro 4360 Baton Rouge area | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Funny, watching this I could hear my swim coach "Extend and glide with your strokes, rotate from the hips, legs straight don't bend the knees!". I need to get my swim video'd would love to see what I look like. |
| 2009-05-12 8:22 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Expert 1296 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Overall, a fairly smooth stroke that would expected from a beginner. Technically you’re a lot closer than you think. Some things you could improve on: 1. Lose the baggy shorts... 2. A faster arm turnover and less of a catch-up as a lot of people stated above. How do you do this? Get stronger in the water by swimming more yardage and tougher more challenging sets. More frequency in the pool. Adding 1-2 swim workouts a week could make a huge difference. 3. Unless you’re really swimming hard (sprinting, etc...) shift the kick down to a 2 beat kick. Don't turn it off just shift down a gear a focus on stability and body roll from your hips. 4. You’re a touch flat in the water. You could easily rotate a bit more. Be careful here. You don't want to OVER rotate. I noticed that when you breathe you are looking up at the ceiling. You don’t want to do that. Your breath should be a quick turn of the chin to the side. You want to be looking at the lane lines and the lane next to you. If you’re looking up at the roof of the pool your wasting energy. You might not even realize it. Honestly, a few minor things for you will make a huge difference. To me it looks like you are just not strong enough in the water yet. Unfortunately, the only cure for that is to get after it and swim more yardage, more structured workouts over time. It's not something that's going to simply show up in a month. Things will get better and you will make progress but it's more than likely something you want to measure over months/years.... Good luck. Any questions let me know.
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| 2009-05-12 8:31 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Pro 5011 Twin Cities | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Are you left-handed? |
| 2009-05-12 8:40 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Extreme Veteran 495 Stamford, CT | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Ok, I am actually going to disagree with a lot of the above posts here :( The almost catch up stroke you are doing is OK. If you look at the fastest swimmers in the world Phelps, Jensen, etc, and slow mo their stroke they are almost doing a catch up stroke. This is called "front quadrant swimming". The issue that I see with your stroke is that your hand is entering the water at 12 o'clock (imagine 12 is a streamline and 6 is your toes. Instead, try to enter the water and 11 and 1 (or even 10 and 2). To help with this I like to do the clock drill. Start with two normal strokes, two strokes with hand entering at 11 and 1, two at 10 and 2 and two and 9 and 3 then go back in -10 and 2, 11 and 1 normal stroke. The other issue that I see is that you are pulling straight down underneath your body, so you are missing the first part of your catch. When you pull down and enter the water at 11 and 1, pull slightly out and down while keeping your elbow high, then as your hand gets closer to your breastplate, sweep down past your hips. Sorry, this is hard to explain without a visual -but it's kind of like drawing large 3D Ps and Qs (lower case q). Pic from Maglischo's "Swimming Fastest" Edited by jellyfish 2009-05-12 8:42 AM (Picture 6.png) Attachments ---------------- Picture 6.png (29KB - 19 downloads) |
| 2009-05-12 9:13 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
| Member 38 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique I really want to thank everyone for responding and taking the time to view my video. It's hard to believe that so many people would take so much time out of their crazy day and crazy training schedules to help me get better at swimming. Your input was actually very reassuring. The feedback that I had already received from my master's swim class was very similar to your advice in regards to the "catch-up" swimming especially at slower/easier speeds (which makes me more confident that I'm getting good input at the class). I'm really impressed with how you guys can pick out things in other's strokes from a video (which to me just looks like alot of splashing around). Swim1blue, akrenik, axteraa, run4yrlif ... I need to somehow rid myself of the "catch-up" swimming. I didn't swim like that before I started back swimming in November. I was crossing over alot then. I started doing alot of catchup drills and doing TI drills (partial catchup) and this is the result. I'm not crossing over as much, but I've developed this bad habit. I tried last week to be more conscious of "moving my arms through more opposing positions" ... it felt very awkward and my shoulder started bothering me the next day. I think I probably need to work on it outside of the water ... maybe laying on a bench. I know this is going to take alot of effort and awkward feelings to change this habit. Hopefully I'll be able to revideo in about 3 months and show alot of improvement. Matt_d, Trying1, photonic... I'll also try to think more about lengthening my stroke both in the front and the rear (exiting near the hips rather than too early). I think from your feedback that extending the breathing side arm further might help me rotate more on that side (and maybe it would keep me from crossing underneath so much on that side?). AdventureBear ... The nonbreathing arm does cross underneath me. The halo video was helpful and it makes me want to buy one. I'll definitely work on keeping the high elbow. It's amazing what you "think" you are doing right and then you look at the video  Everyone thanks for the encouragement and pointers! Akrenik, that was my wife with the "sweet words" ... I had missed them because the sound was down on my computer ... I had to go back and listen for them when I read your post. She is wonderful and I am blessed. Axteraa, it was a 25 yard length pool. Run4yrlif, I knew someone was going to comment on my trunks. I've got a pair of Jammers which I've only ever worn once (interestingly it was when I was visiting Augusta ... and wasn't worried about running in to anyone that I knew). I think because of your comment, I'm going to wear them when I go to the Y next time ... I just have to get over it, I guess. |
| 2009-05-12 9:39 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
| Member 38 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Since I missed some posts while writing my reply (you guys give awesome feedback) .... |
. Thanks for the clock drill and I will definitely be working on the high elbow/ stronger pull. | 2009-05-12 9:48 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique After reading jellyfish's and your last post, I just wanted to say that I don't think that what you are doing with the catch-up style is drastically wrong, I just think you need to start your pull a little bit sooner. Here is a youtube video showing some different techniques from the 2004 olympics 1500 final. Two of the three swimmers definitely do the catch-up style, but they are starting their pull just a little before you do. Then the third guy (second one they show) doesn't do it at all so obviously there is no 100% right way to do it. |
| 2009-05-12 9:51 AM in reply to: #2145354 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique jellyfish - 2009-05-12 9:40 AM Ok, I am actually going to disagree with a lot of the above posts here  The almost catch up stroke you are doing is OK. If you look at the fastest swimmers in the world Phelps, Jensen, etc, and slow mo their stroke they are almost doing a catch up stroke. This is called "front quadrant swimming". Yeah, but even FQ swimmers don't swim CU strokes. No elite swimmers actually touch one hand with the other (or even comes close to it), as the poster is doing. Typically, FQ swimmers will start the catch when their recovering hand is near thier ear. |
| 2009-05-12 11:10 AM in reply to: #2144795 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique I don't think there is anything wrong with his timing per se, but I do agree that the arm that is "waiting" is not doing anything productive before it pulls. Combinging what peopel have said regarding FQS and body roll...the reason teh front arm "waits" at all is to allow you to rotate your body towards the side of the arm that has just entered, reaching all the way forward (up if you use a standing against teh wall and reaching analogy) to increase the total distance that the arm is able to make on the pull stroke. Without using those two ideas together, both techniques fail to live up to their potential. That's of course not the only way to swim, but if you are going to be using FQS (which is totally fine), you'll need to start integrating reach and body roll. Also, you don't need to BUY the halo trainer, but just visualize it and what it does with the halo. You could even make cardboard cutouts. I tried the trainer for about 2 minutes at a conference and that was enough to give me a sudden "AHA" moment with my stroke and I immediately went and did a workout using that form adn my swim stroke has been improved ever since. Good luck, and post more videos as you continue to improve! |
| 2009-05-12 11:54 AM in reply to: #2145602 |
Extreme Veteran 495 Stamford, CT | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique run4yrlif - 2009-05-12 10:51 AM jellyfish - 2009-05-12 9:40 AM Ok, I am actually going to disagree with a lot of the above posts here The almost catch up stroke you are doing is OK. If you look at the fastest swimmers in the world Phelps, Jensen, etc, and slow mo their stroke they are almost doing a catch up stroke. This is called "front quadrant swimming". Yeah, but even FQ swimmers don't swim CU strokes. No elite swimmers actually touch one hand with the other (or even comes close to it), as the poster is doing. Typically, FQ swimmers will start the catch when their recovering hand is near thier ear. I'm definitely not endorsing a true catch up stroke (or what I like to call "touch and go") but I see way too many swimmers with the exact opposite problem -they have their arms in total opposition. I'd rather see them do catch up to this... I agree with you on "FQ swimmers will start the catch when their recovering hand is near their ear" this is what I would describe as "almost" catch up. wfricks -sorry for confusing you |
| 2009-05-12 12:11 PM in reply to: #2145998 |
| Member 38 | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique Jellyfish ... I appreciate your advice and encouragement too But what I think I'm understanding is that most people think that I'm just a little off and that I don't necessarily need to have my arms in "total opposition" ... I think it would be easier for me to get back to doing the partial/almost catchup stroke (correct FQ swimming) rather than eliminating it completely. |
| 2009-05-12 12:23 PM in reply to: #2144795 |
Master 1411 Lexington, KY | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique The first swimmer in the video above looks like he's almost doing a cu drill. That's a sweet looking stroke. |
| 2009-05-12 10:43 PM in reply to: #2146073 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: My swim video - please critique wfricks - 2009-05-12 11:11 AM Jellyfish ... I appreciate your advice and encouragement too But what I think I'm understanding is that most people think that I'm just a little off and that I don't necessarily need to have my arms in "total opposition" ... I think it would be easier for me to get back to doing the partial/almost catchup stroke (correct FQ swimming) rather than eliminating it completely. Hey, overall, you have a nice stroke so just keep pressing foward. |
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