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2005-04-18 4:58 PM

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Subject: Iron Distance Bike Speed
What sort of speed can one cover for the 112 miles. I'm trying to figure out what a goal time should be. Just like I can run a half marathon in 1:30 doesn't mean I can run a 3:00:00 marathon, so I'm curious how much one slows down over distance on the bike.I bike 57 miles the other day, going 18.4 MPH Average for the ride. What pace would you all "guesstimate" that I will go on race day.


2005-04-18 7:07 PM
in reply to: #144151

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
How far out is race day?

At IMAZ I actually did better in both splits of the 112 miles than I did compared to any 1/2IM that I have been in. My training rides that were 56 miles were roughly 3 hours (depending on weather conditions) and I finished the 112 in just a touch over 6 and I felt as 'fresh' as I did on any transition run or brick during my training.

I would say that your bike speed will drop off less significantly than your run would when you begin to double the mileage.
2005-04-18 11:47 PM
in reply to: #144151

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
I guess it depends on how much you train, how well you pace yourself and how well you execute your nutrition plan. There are many factors that go into an IM bike split not to mention that 26 miles of running should be on your mind during the 112 mile bike. ;-)

2005-04-19 10:53 AM
in reply to: #144151

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed

Devo, My race is in September, so quite a ways out.  Are you thinking I'll get faster?

As far as thinking of running the marathon after, I keep that in mind.  I'm going at a very moderate pace when biking.  My age is 24, and my max heart rate is somewhere in the low 190's.  When I'm biking my heart rate averages around 130.  So I'm not hammering and spiking my heart rate.

Does that give any more insight?

2005-04-19 11:42 AM
in reply to: #144489

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
Another thing that you need to consider is the course. I prerode Az twice. Both times I did it in 6:30 or so and that was an easy pace. Come race day they changed the course adding more turns and it was way more windy than the 2 times I rode it in the past, so even knowing what I capable of, on race day things changed so you just have to roll with what you get.
2005-04-19 12:23 PM
in reply to: #144489

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
if you train at about 20 beats below LT, this is about right for IM.


2005-04-19 4:54 PM
in reply to: #144489

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
timbarcz - 2005-04-19 8:53 AM

Devo, My race is in September, so quite a ways out.  Are you thinking I'll get faster?

He was probably wondering how you would progress from your current high water mark of 56 miles at 18.4 MPH to 112.  If your race is in September, you can probably expect to be able to maintain that same speed as you progress through long rides.  My speeds on long rides ranged from hi 17's on days when the wind was howling and I crashed nutrition-wise to hi 19's on my good days.  On race day, I averaged 19, but the wind was howling.

Just remember that the key to a good Ironman is a good run, and the key to a good run is not slowing down on the run, and the key to not slowing down on the run is not wasting your effort on the bike.

2005-04-19 8:32 PM
in reply to: #144151

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
Thanks for the info.  So if 18.4 is relatively easy for me to maintain you say stay there and focus on running after going that speed rather than speeding up in order to "bank" time?
2005-04-20 8:52 AM
in reply to: #144903

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8763
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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
Think about the IM bike as a warm up for your run. It's imperative that you ride within your limits - and in my opinion you should throw mph out the window. With my athletes, I first determine their LT or Lactate Threshold. From here I can figure out their Aerobic Threshold which is where you should be doing most of your IM training. The priority in IM racing/training is nutrition/pacing. If you ride to a certain mph, you risk the chance of blowing up and walking the marathon. For every mile that you walk, you can take away 1 mph from your bike split. That is how important is to run the whole marathon and not try to 'bank' time. I see lots of studs out there ride a 5:05 and run (walk) a 4:50 or something marathon. It happens all the time.

For my 4 IM bike splits where I was 5:30-5:39 (see I don't even know what mph that is - probably around 20?) I trained and raced by HR/cadence. I have also run in the 3:40 range too, so I wasn't killing myself to ride those times. To be successful at IM, in my opinion, you need to forget the mph and just ride to HR, that is how you will improve and have the best day for you.

For an example on what HR you should be training at: My LT is 155 on the bike and I train at around 125-140 - and those HR #s line up with what I want to shoot for on race day.

I can't emphasize enough how important letting go of time and mph goals is - anything can happen on race day - and using HR or even better watts will help you have your best race.

I hope this helps
2005-04-20 9:30 AM
in reply to: #144151

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed

I have said this before, and I believe it is useful to mention it here.  Training and racing an Ironman is easy.  Yeah, I know it's freaking hard, but it's easy because you train yourself to go at an easy pace all day long, just like a golf cart.  You go out, flip the switch to "on" and just run, run, run or ride, ride, ride.  The hard part is doing it consistently and extending your endurance past your previous limit. 

So that's why I say that this 18.4 current average, which is easy for you, is what you should strive to maintain as you extend your endurance.  To say that correctly, you should determine the HR that corresponds to the 18.4, and maintain that HR zone for all your training and racing.  (Of course I don't own a HRM, so all of my training was based on feel and perception.  Real caveman here.)

2005-04-20 10:55 AM
in reply to: #144151

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed

I have finished reading an interesting article by Rich Strauss entitled " Important Information for IM Participants!".  It offers very good advice on pacing one's self for each segment of the IM.  The bike pacing section will be of particular interest to you; it is broken down into four parts.  Of particular interest is the author's contention  that the first 30 miles will "make or break your bike leg" and, therefore, suggests an easy pace, even holding back in order to allow the heart rate to settle back from the swim.    

site:  http://www.trinewbies.com/Article.asp?ArticleID=107



2005-04-20 11:04 AM
in reply to: #145077

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed

Sound advice there Mike!  Althought I've never correlated the 1 mile walking = 1 mph loss on the bike, but that seems close enough.  I think your idea of  just focusing on HR, PE, Cadence & Power on the bike is a good suggestion.  Very often,  many get too caught up in maintaining a certain speed and push way too hard for the bike.

There is no way of accurately estimating the eventual bike split in the IM.  Just pace right,  eat right, ride easy and get the time when you hop off the bike

For all of us thats not RACING an IM,  the bike leg should NEVER be hard work.

2005-04-20 11:12 AM
in reply to: #145178

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed
Thanks. Even for those guys at the front end of the race they aren't riding that hard - pretty much top of their aerobic zone - saving themselves for the run. The guys who go off the front and blow up on the run, those are the guys that went too hard.

If you know your watts and what watts correlate to in tems of speed, you could predict your IM bike time. But this would really only work on a flat IM like FL. Watts is a great tool to have as it takes a lot of guesswork out of the riding.
2005-04-21 12:42 PM
in reply to: #144151

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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed

It's only natural to wonder and do the what if game, especially as you get closer to the race. Your build confidence in your fitness, we're competitive peeps, and you start to conjecture about how fast you can ride the bike leg or what your split will be. Perfectly natural. However, as Mike pointed out, this can be fatal on race day. Your much more important split is your bike/run brick. A 5:20 bike isn't much good if it results in a 5:20 run (walk). A 5:35/4:00 is much better.

Consider this: booger/cruise the swim and you'll only go about 5' "slower" than normal. Cruise/booger the bike (assuming no mechanicals) and you'll probably leave about 15' on the course, unless you completely implode yourself in the first half. But implode on the run and you're looking at walking 16-17' miles vs running 9-10'. Do the math on 20 miles like that and you'll see the IM is about not slowing down on the run.

The difficulty is that we have so few times to practice an IM in an actual race. We're lucky to do 1-2 per year. 3 is VERY tough to pull off. My best executed race was IMWI'02 on what I consider to be mediocre fitness. I'm much more fit now and am working hard to get back to the execution place I was 3 years ago. This is largely a function of:

  1. Holding my IM bike fitness in reserve to use on the run. This past Sunday I cruised to a 4:56 for 112. Flat course and I had good winds, but I can ride all day at 22+. However, at CDA I'm prepared to sleep to a 5:15-20 to yield a sub 3:30 run.
  2. Identifying my "One Thing" now, so I have absolute focus on race day. http://www.cruciblefitness.com/etips/IMMental.htm  For me, it's a 3:30 run, yielding about a 9:45 (52/5:15-20/3:30). Why? That's my potential. I want to do it, get it done, take off the IM hat until I turn 40 in '08 :-)

So, just train using HR, watts, speed, whatever. Lots of info and training plans on my site to help you. Ok to play the what if game but on race day be humble and conservative.

2005-04-21 1:10 PM
in reply to: #144151

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Master
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Subject: RE: Iron Distance Bike Speed

Great advice!   Definitely makes sense when you put it into that perspective.  Thanks Mike.  Thanks Rich!!

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