IM Nutrition - I'm not doing something right

Great idea!  Thanks Kathy!

Is it possible that "gassy" would happen 8 hours into the day regardless of your nutrition?  How did you feel after long rides and did you have any training days that long? 

I'm one for "eat off the land" and luckily can handle just about anything (but then again, my run pace isn't too intense).  Is it possible that you're trying to get too much with Infinit on the bike?  What if you switch your bike nutrition from fluid-based to food-based (and use grocery foods)?  Can you put together 1500 calories of fig bars, paydays, cookies, and bananas (or maybe 1000 calories with 500 from fluids)? 

Does your GI track rebel on everyday eating? 

You're smart, you'll get it figured out. 

Thanks Mike.  Yes, I have a sensitive GI system.  This past IM training cycle the Infinit and Clif Block combo worked great.  I felt fine after long training days.  Mountains of Misery was a 7 1/2 day and I had zero issues.

As far as 'live off the land', I can't do it.  After an hour, my body does not like any sort of sports drink.  I learned that through marathoning.  The only sports drink I found that doesn't cause some sort of distress is Infinit.  That is why I am so confused at this point. 

Women are smart.  That is the first thing my wife said to me last night.  I've used Imodium before, but not during a race.  Hmmmmm. 

Thanks for the input.  Keep them coming!  I do plan on calling the folks at Infinit later this week. 

Did you practice your race nutrition at pace?  I know, for me, it makes a big difference how the run pans out.

It just seems a bit early(5 miles into run) to be having problems which leads me to believe it came from something you did in T2.  I know that, for me, when I mix things with Infinit my nutrition gets all jacked up.  It's only Infinit or something else, not both.

I doubt it was the pretzels, so the immodium may be the culprit.  Just a guess of course.

Thanks for all the new responses.  

This might make sense Andrew and Dan, but I rode Mountains of Misery in May at race effort.  That century ride was 7 1/2 hours with 10,000 feet of climbing.  I never once felt off during the ride.  However I did not do a transition run after the ride.  Like you and Janel suggested I am going to experiment with some HIM training days and longer transition runs to figure things out. 

I am starting to lean towards Imodium being part of the problem.  I was actually counting on Imodium being my salvation on race day, but stupid me never tried it in training.  One of these days I will learn - nothing new on race day! 

I'm glad you posted this.  I've been thinking a lot about race nutrition after signing up for CdA next year, and I have had some serious tummy issues in the past while racing, usually after T2.  I was thinking of trying Infinit, and it's good to know that the Immodium could be a potential problem.

It is very hard to really practice IM race day nutrition.  You might be able to get close thru doing some HIM or race pace training.  But no one really knows what their body is going to do after 9, 10, or 15 hours of going non-stop until they have gone that long.  I did IMCDA for the 5th time this year and finally feel like I had a race that went mostly right.

After reading your account I have one qestion and two comments.

Question - Are you sure it was a nutrition problem and not a pacing problem?  You said "I executed the bike according to plan and never let my HR get too high".  What was your plan?  What are you calling a too high HR?  How did you set these limits?  Was your plan heart rate set too high to begin with?  I do not know if this was your problem and I'm not saying that it was.  However, these are some questions you should be asking yourself.  You may deside that your plan was the right plan for you.  If it was the right plan then we are talking about a nutrition problem and not a pacing problem.

Comment 1 - Are you sure that you were drinking enough water on the bike to support a 300 cal/hour nutrition plan?  I was pushing around 300 cals/hour and had to stop and pee 3 times on the bike.  I know that there are people that can ride 112 miles without peeing and be ok but I'm not one of them.  I know for me that bad things happen when I get a little dehydrated.  I would rather error on the side of being a little overhydrated.  (Before anyone starts talking about water intoxication I said a LITTLE overhydrated not super-saturated.)

Comment 2 - Imodium scares me on race day.  I carry Imodium on race day and have some extra in my SN bag.  But, I really do not understand how it works.  I pack it as part of my last resort plan.  My attitude is that if I start taking Imodium then my day is over and I'm just trying to get to the finish without crapping myself.   I just don't understand how it can shut down GI issues and still allow for calories to get absorbed.  My guess, and it is only a guess, is that once you take Imodium then nothing gets absorbed and you start to bloat up.

My guess is that you came off the bike a little dehydrated, due to this dehydration the unabsorbed calories in your system caused the gas issuse.  If you had dropped your run pace a little and taken in some extra water the issue may have resolved itself.  But the Imodium you took in T2 shut your system down causing the cramping.  Everything you piled on top of the Imodium just sat in your GI since your stomach was shut down.  Again, just my guess. 

I know a lot of folks have great success with Imodium, but I think they take it before the race. 

A quick Google search on Immodium:

Loperamide works by acting on opioid receptors that are found in the muscle lining the walls of the intestines. By acting on these receptors, loperamide reduces the muscular contractions of the intestine (called peristalsis) that move food and faecal matter through the gut.

This reduces the speed at which the gut contents are pushed through the intestines, allowing more time for water and electrolytes to be reabsorbed from the gut contents back into the body. This results in firmer stools that are passed less frequently.

Thanks for the comments T.  As always, you have come through!  This very well could have been a large part of my issue. 

To answer your point on pacing, I don't wear a HR monitor so I can't give you exact numbers.  I've always raced by RPE and think I know my body pretty well.  So, I think I had my pacing where I wanted it, but to be honest I don't know for certain.  With all of that being said, I am going to train and race with a HR monitor in 2010 to keep myself honest.  I am also going to leave the Imodium at home!

Thanks again - see you in 11 months!

333 days!

How much water did you take in, if any, in addition to the infinit? How much sodium did you take in prerace and during the bike, not counting the ecaps?

II executed the bike according to plan and never let my HR get too high.  I took in 5 bottles of Infinit at 300 cals per and 2 packages of Clif Blocks at 200 cals each.  In total 6 1/2 hours on the bike and 1,900 calories. I did not pee on the bike, but did in T2.  All in all, I felt like I was going to execute the day perfectly as I needed to run a 4 1/2 hour marathon for my goal of 12:xx finish. 
>>> how mant grams of carbohydrates did you take x hour? a quick estimate of 300 Kcal + clif blocks 200 Kcal gives me around 125 grams of carbs x hours... That's a LOT! there isn't a definitive number to aim for but studies done suggest our bodies can only process around 60-80gr of carbs per hr, IOW we usually can process and absorb around 1-1.3 gr/1min, depending on your diet, fitness, racing/training intensity, temperature, weight, etc. How tall are you and how much do you weight?

I got off the bike a little gassy, but nothing bad at all.  In T2 I took one Imodium. I also took 3 E-caps at that time (which I've done in training).  Here is where I might have made some mistakes that ruined my race.  My original plan was to run with my Fuel Belt filled with Infinit and Clif Blocks.  Not being of sound mind 8 hours into the day I decided to leave my Fuel Belt in T2.  I thought the Clif blocks and water could get my through.  However in my rush to get out of T2, I not only left my Fuel Belt behind, I also forgot my Clif Blocks.  At that point my run nutrition plan was screwed so I was forced to live off the land - something that has not worked well for me in past.  The first five miles of the run were fine and I was running right at my goal 9:30 pace. I drank some water and had a few pretzels.  Somewhere between miles 5 and 6 I got gas pains like I've never felt before. I took one more Imodium, but that didn't help. The only thing that made me feel somewhat comfortable was walking a very slow pace.  So that is how my day ended I walked slowly from Mile 6 on.  I tried everything at the feed stations - coke, chicken broth, cookies.  Nothing helped.  Every time I tried jogging I had to stop.  In the end I finished, but my marathon took over 6 hours. 
>>> you obviously did some stuff you are not used ot and that problably added to the problem but *my* guess would be you took way more carbs of what your body needed and could processed. To fix the problem you just added more hence you had a lnog 6 hr walk. Did you gain weight or were super bloated?

I would work with your coach on a good racing fueling plan or if it is up to you then cut back on the fueling and start with less. Think of it as cooking; if you season your meal too much you wont be able to take it back, however if you season it little by little you will find the right amount for you.

For nutrition I prefer to KISS it and think in terms of carbohydrates rather than calories because total kcal might sound enough but it might not be providing you with the source of energy your body needs for fuel (still 500 kcal x hr seems a lot to me). Why don't you shoot for around 60-75 gr of carbs. 1 bottle (around 20-24oz) of infinity x hour with 40 gr of carbs plus either 1 cliff gel or 6 blocks (25 hr of carbs) total 65 gr of CHO. try it on your next long session and see if it works, if your fitness is there and exercise at adequate intensity keeping proper pacing and you fade away towards the end or on the run then add a bit more for next time (5-10 gr of CHO) and try again.

For the run it is harder for your body to process carbs hence 30-60 gr might be as much as you can handle x hr. Again after trying the above on a long ride do a transition run and see how it feels. For th run you can do some sports drinke 20 oz x hr or do water/coke plus a gel.

Some general rules:

- beofre training/racing shoot for 2-2.5 gr of crabs x kg of body weight 2-4 hrs before the race/session; if going less than 2 hrs go with the lower end if going 3-4 > hrs go with the higher end
- a good basic baseline for fuelingis: 60-70 gr of crabs x hour. Take this in your favorite way: only sports drinks, sports drinks and gels, water and gels, etc.
- depending on body weight, fitness level, temperature and racing intensity a good starting point for fluid inatke is between 20-32 oz x hr.
- when hot drink more fluid (with less carbs) are you body will need more for hydration but do to extra work done by your body to keep you cool taking too many carbs might cause GI.
- when cold drink a bit leas as your body won't need as much to keep you cool)hydrated but you might need to keep same avg. carbs x hrs (or even a bit more) to keep you warm.

Good luck!

This time around I am most definetely going to do some longer transition runs.  I didn't do anything over a couple of miles after a bike this time around.  Hmmmm - 40k bike / 10 k run X 3.  Sounds like a long but very useful day!   Thanks!

Great information here - thanks Jorge!  Now I just need to digest all of the advice I've received here (pun intended)!  Then, it's practice, practice, practice.