Treadmill running vs. outside running question

I'm not sure what you mean by no airflow but when on a TM there is no air resistance.  Even if there is no headwind, you still have to push air out of your way when you run outside.  When you are on a TM, you are not moving any air so you should be faster. 

Think of how slowly you can run when you're waist deep in water.  Air is a fluid....just not as dense as water.

~Mike

By airflow I meant something to cool you off vs. sweat like a pig like I do on the TM.

The science behind your statement does make sense, however.  Outside of that, everyone goes slower indoors, which furthers my hypothesis that something in my form is messing me up outside.  Like I don't push off correctly or something (no need to push off on a T-mill that's running underneath me)?

I also go faster on a treadmill than outside.  I think it has to do with a couple of things - first the treadmill does the work of pacing, so you don't have to.  No slowing down (for inclines or headwinds, or laziness), and no accelerations.  So the pace is more consistent.  Second, the treadmill has more "give" than asphalt or concrete, so you get less leg fatigue, which makes it easier to keep the pace going longer.

I found it similar with my hiking treadmill (that has a 5% decline and up to 50% incline) - I can maintain a more consistent speed even with a pack than I could when I was actually out hiking on "mountains" of Pennsylvania (where the highest elevation is still lower than the lowest point in Colorado).

I agree with your conclusion Scott but from my 'engineering perspective' this is not correct.  The up/down bounce and spring of a treadmill is WASTED energy.  It does lessen fatigue however as it lessens the impact.  This is the same reason we use hard bottom biking shoes and not cushioned running shoes.  That continual compression/decompression of the sole of a running shoe adds up to a whole lot of wasted energy. 

This issue is really about fatigue not speed.  Least that's how I read things.  The only difference in the physics of running on a TM and running outside is wind resistance and bounce...and the fact that you are locked into a specific pace.  I can see that one might change their stride length - whether intentional or not - and this will change one's fatigue level also.

Teadmills are a tool.  They have their place.  We just need to be careful not to become too reliant on a tool.

~Mike

Interesting stuff.  For the record, my conclusion holds true with HR data, for those that put forth the hypothesis that I just ran too slow outside and the T-Mill was "forcing" the pace.  But I agree with those that said there's more pace variation outside obviously.  I've got a lot of miles on my legs, so I stay pretty consistent outside, but not perfect.

Seriously, I run 8m/m pace outside and I'm "ok".  I set the T-Mill on a 7m/m pace without difficulty.

Obviously outside I have to MOVE myself forward.  I'd just heard over and over again that most folks are slower on the 'mill.  Hoping for that magic bullet of untapped potential that might exist if my issue pointed to a problem with running form or something.  Doesn't sound like it (not that my form is perfect or anything, but there's no simple answer it would appear).

That is a good point, and hard to figure.  But, as I stated early, I sweat like a pig pig pig on the T-mill since air movement is very lacking.  And, being in the upper midwest, we don't get a ton of uber-hot days, but it can be humid.  Pleanty of nice cool days in the 40s-50s too though, and it's not like my pace rockets up 30s to 1m per mile on those days.

I think 'Kido nailed it.  I am faster on the treadmill, and I think it is because I am only having to keep my legs moving fast enough to keep up with the belt moving under me, rather than outside where I would have to propel my entire body forward at that pace.

The up/down bounce when you run outside is wasted energy.  The up/down bounce on a treadmill allows the belt to move under you.  The greater your "hang time" on a treadmill, the more the belt can move under you, so you can look to go really fast by prancing/hopping (i.e. bouncing up/down a lot and minimizing the contact time with the belt). 

Morey, have some of your peeps watch your up/down motion when you run outside (as well as left/right).