run volume per week until marathon build

this really depends on a number of things, what your exact goals are, how your body responds, where you are at now, etc.

i am planning on running 50ish mpw for 5ks, but am trying to see where i can get myself, and i feel thats about hte limit i can run and still get in tri training.

assuming your body can handle it, the more you run, the faster you will go.

IMO, the more, the better. If you can safely build to 40+ mpw and hold it there for several months before you even begin a marathon training program, you're more likely to have a successful race. I believe there are certain physiological adaptations that occur when running higher volume over an extended period that can't be acquired through other avenues.

Before I start my marathon specific training I will likely be running between 80-100 mpw. During the marathon training I will actually run less, but the focus will be different.

For a first marathon, probably 25-30 miles per week base and then build to 40-50 for the last 2-3 months would be ideal, if your body can handle it.  For a first marathon I built to 25-30 miles per week for base and then built to 40 miles per week for the last two months and was able to run the whole way (not so fast the last 3 miles 8)). 

I have done roughly 25 miles per week base for 2 years now with a build up to 45 miles per month for a 2nd marathon in January.  When I start approaching 50 miles per week I have run into some big fatigue issues, so I do see that there are some body addaptations that are trying to happen for me at 40 -50 that were not happening in the 35-40 mile per week range, but it is taking a while.  I see age and no run background as making this adaptation take longer, but well that is what it is. 

Enjoy the training, don't go out to fast in your mary.  It is great that you are taking this long to train for it and not just trying to blast it out in 3 months or whatever. 

I found the high mileage plans left me sore and feeling like I was going to get injured. I followed the FIRST marathon training program, which has you running 3 days a week with no more than about 30ish miles in a week and it worked great. I finished my first marathon feeling good, and the soreness was gone after about 2 days of rest. I didn't start running again seriously for about 2 weeks but I was amazed at the recovery. On that plan I set me pace to allow me to hit a Boston QT and I did it by more than 1.5 minutes (3:08:20). Thats not to say that the other plans will not work but I found the less days/mileage left me feeling more energetic and less sore than the more typical high mileage 4-5 days a week plans. Here is the plan:
http://www.furman.edu/first/2006%20marathon%20training-first%20mara...

The only thing I would suggest is that if the starting week distance workout of 8 miles is to long, then take another 2-3 weeks to build up to it, but if not 18 weeks is more than enough time to prepare for a marathon. Good luck!

Wow that is reallly low miles and only 1 16, 1 18 and 1 20 mile run.  I would be scared to enter a marathon on such low miles.  I am glad that you achieved so much on so little.  It would be nice to see how a typical person does for a first marathon based on that program.  3:08:xx is just way fast and puts you probably in the top 5 percent of marathoners.   

I'm using the FIRST program to train for a 5/1 marathon - I'm hoping I have the same experience you did. I seem to "break down" at about 40 mpw (I'm 48), yet I run fairly well (1:38:40 1/2 last week). The FIRST plan makes sense - I bought the book and am actually going to the run camp in March. We'll see...

The FIRST program does work for some. But it is definitely for the gifted runners who wish to race hard using it.Make no doubt about it - you WILL run faster with more mileage. When you hit that point where you feel like you're going to break down, that's when you need to be very careful, but not give up. If you can break through that barrier, you will hit a whole new level of performance.This happened to me several times in the rampup from a lifetime average of 35mpw gradually to 70+mpw. I felt like I was going to break several times, backed off, but didn't give up. Ran huge PRs across the board in the process.For marathons, in general, more miles = better race. You can do it on less, but don't expect to be anywhere near where you would be with higher mileage.I also find a lot of people give up prematurely and sell themselves short when they ramp up. They tell themselves all they can do is x amount of miles, but they don't train for, say, 16-20 weeks on a structured program commensurate with their ability. You need to do this type of training to break through those perceived mileage limitations safely unless you're a gifted runner.

Edited by agarose2000 2009-12-17 9:10 PM

i started training for a HM 7 weeks ago had never run more than 4 miles, now i am running 10 mile at 8mins 30 secs and it feels good, i am running 22 miles a week now but the program i am following takes me up to 29 max by week 14 this is a 16 week plan , It has been easy and very well thought out. If i follow the plan i should be able to run my HM in 1 hr 52 mins so far i am right on target, also my 5k time is down from 25mins 23secs to 23 -40...that was 3 weeks ago i am sure i am faster now. The program i follow is by smart coach at runners world.
good luck 

Sorry i ment to type 1hr and 56 mins

Not to hijack the thread, but I am doing the FIRST marathon training program and have had some concerns only running three times a week and doing a 16, 18 and 20 mile runs once.

My thoughts are to throw in a recovery run once or twice a week to get some "extra" miles in, and since I have been running for a while, I figured I can handle the extra load, I am going to take up the longer runs to get some more 18's and 20's in.

Any thoughts on modifying this plan to get some better results.

The FIRST plan is definitely all about intensity and low volume for a marathon (or a half).  For those who did it the other way (super volume buildup), and have had great PRs as their mileage went up, I have a question for my own curiosity.  Did you ever try the ultra-intensity approach of something like FIRST before upping the miles to see what would happen with really high intensity running vs. higher volume?

I'm a little afraid of doing the FIRST because I'm a brand new runner and the paces are just too much, even though I know it's all geared from your race paces.  I just can't hold the paces they are suggesting for the two non-long runs based on my 5 mile TT time.  I like the idea of lower volume running to allow for more biking/swimming, but I want to understand all the pros and cons.

This sounds like your first marathon and when it comes to the marathon, more (mpw) is almost always better.  If you can get to 40, then do it.  Having said that, 25mpw is a decent base when embarking upon marathon training.  I would probably consider 25 to be the minimum base before training.

I would not do the FIRST program as a new marathoner.  Just sayin'.

Okay, I have to chime in on this one. My history first so you all don't think I"m just yakking away.. I have run 15 races of marathon or longer distance, including 7 that were 50ks or longer.
So I have experience with endurance running. I manage to stay healthy 95% of the time and I finish my races feeling tired but good. I am also currently training for an April trail marathon.

There are lots of training programs out there you can look at. For a first time marathon, if your goal is finish happy with a smile on your face, then I would look at the novice program on Hal Higdon's website. www.halhigdon.com
You will increase your long runs and will eventually wind up doing 1 20 mile long run before the race. I honestly do not think you need to run longer than 20 miles, or run more than 1 20 mile training run before your first marathon. His program will increase your mileage gradually with a maximum week of 40mpw. You will be running 4 days a week with one cross training day if you follow his program. This is plenty of mileage to get you to that start and finish line. If you start to feel any injuries coming on or you are really tired, then take one of the shorter run days and go cross train instead -biking is a great way to cross train for running. You won't lose any fitness.. you will be keeping yourself healthy so you complete the marathon.

For your first marathon, just pick a program that fits your schedule and stick to it. Don't worry about any speedwork for your first marathon. You want your body and your mind to get used to the distance. If you want to play around with faster races later, then pick a harder program for your second marathon.

Good luck with training.
Dee

btw, interesting comments on the FIRST program. I have looked it up, but it just seems to be too "number focused" for me.
When I run, I like to just pick my course and go run it. No looking at the watch/pace clock every minute to see if my pace is right. Doesn't that kind of take the fun out of running?

I am not a fast marathoner by any stretch, but I finish and I recover quickly.
And I can run mulitiple marathons a year because I don't overstress my body with high speed and high mileage workouts.

Everyone is different, though.
Find what works for you and stick to it.

i'll bite. first i think you are smart in relaizing this may be a bad choice for a new runner, i would absolutely say it is.

now, my thougths on the program. yes you can get faster doing this. but you will hit a point where that progress stops. running that type of milage, and trying to go that hard, that often, is a recipie for disaster.

another thing to think about, frequncy, and volume for the most part will get most people faster than they ever will get, without EVER adding in harder running. just running a few miles per week more than most people do, on a regular basis, without anything hard, you will get faster.

The real gains to be had through faster running are only going to be seen once you have a huge base ofmiles in your legs and you can then take that and mold it into something faster.

or if you will, look at it like this, if you run 15-20 miles a week, and 10% of that is speedwork, someone running 40 or 50 miles a week is going to be running a lot more total speedwork holding onto that 10%. not only will the higher milage let you build that aerobic engine, it will have your total amount of faster running higher than a lower milage runner. and because you are spreading it over more runs, and keeping most of them on the easier side, you will be keeping your body healthy (or have a higher % of avoiding injury).

Thanks newbz, for a very complete response.  I'll check back in the spring when I've got some miles behind me!

Yes, I used to train super-intensely at 35mpw for 5k-10k races. I did sprints up to 3x/week all-out at peak. I entered some 10milers and half marathons, and would finish a HM near 1:45, and it hurt like heck. Big fade in the end. Cranked it up to 70mpw with Pfitz Advanced marathoning. After one (hard) 18 week cycle, I crushed my 15-year running plateau PRs with a 1:24HM and went straight from a 20:305k to a 18:05 in one fell swoop. (This was amazing to me - I probably had over 50 5ks in the prior decade all between 20:30-22:00, no matter how hard I trained.)I had thought I was completely maxxed out in ability, especially in the 5k, since all the books say it's a VO2-dependent race, and VO2 is genetically determined. Turns out that aerobic endurance still plays a big role in those short races.My first two marathons had 45-50 mpw of less structured training, and went 4hr 7min, 3hr 55min. After that one hi-mileage 70mpw max 18 week cycle, I ran a 3hr 20 on a hilly, tough marathon course. I have since run even faster than that on high mileage. (Not as a triathlete.)I haven't done FIRST, but I know from my personal experience that there is no possible way I could come close to my marathon PRs with such low mileage, as I've gone all-intensity in the past and it didn't work at all for me.I have, however, seen a few gifted individuals run very well with FIRST, and not improve a huge amount after nearly doubling their run volume. I think you'll know if you're one of these folks - you'll be running at the front of the pack after a month or two of training. But for sure, the VAST majority of folks are not so gifted.