Weight routines/exercises for swimming.

In the latest "Triathlete" magazine in the supplement ( The Road to Kona), p10 there is a whole article about strengthening swim specific muscles.
They look mighty hard to me!

I'm curious about opinions on this as well.  I have always had a big and strong back from power lifting and olympic lifting but when I recently got back into the weights, I found that it was making the swim more difficult for me. I have backed off the weight a bit and doubled my reps and that seems to help.  I do sets of 20 whereas my previous workouts (which targeted size and strength) were 8-10. 

Jackjack - thanks, and I've been looking everywhere for the current issue, but it's nowhere to be found....

Scout21

Can you get to the pool 3-5x/week?  If so, the best way to get better at swimming is to spend time swimming (preferably with a coach on deck).

Swimming is not strength limited but rather technique limited and technique is best refined in the pool.

Shane

Hi -- just a question about this (not arguing your point).  Agree that technique is #1.  However, to go faster doesn't it take strength? Isn't it about pulling your body through the water?

I ask because I notice that swimming faster does not move me much faster.  However, swimming stronger, pushing harder against the water, does.  It's also more exhausing, both for my muscles and my heart/lungs.  My form is not great, and I'm still learning.  But I am thinking the same would apply, only more so, for people with good form.

Wouldn't strength training help with that (in addition to the frequent swims)?

I've been doing standing bent arm lat pulldowns (recommended in a couple of books, and I think somewhere on here).  I am getting better, but I couldn't attribute that improvement to weight-lifting vs. just swmiing.

Thanks!

Thanks, and yes I do get in the pool 3 or 4 times a week, and a typical workout is between 2500 and 3000 yards.  I'm not looking for a gym routine to replace my swim workouts, but to supplement the pool work that I'm doing. 

Unfortunately coaching is not something that I'll be able to do.  My local masters group isn't coached (so I guess it isn't a true masters group).  I may look into a few lessons if I'm able to find a teacher at my Y that can do stroke analysis.

Scout21

Definitely; pushing harder (without slipping) will allow you to swim faster and it is more exhausting, however it is not strength limited.  The actual force applied to the water is relatively low and increasing maximum force through strength training has not been shown to improve distance swim performance.



Not likely; pre teen females can break 20 minutes for 1500m and it is doubtful that many triathletes would be less strong than a pre teen female.  Despite being stronger, very few triathletes can break 20 minutes for 1500m so if you want to swim faster, I would take the strength session and make it another swim.

There are many reasons to strength train, to be a faster endurance athlete isn't one of them.

Shane

The 3-4x/week for 2500-3000 yards is going to lead to the improvement you seek.  If coaching or lessons is not in the cards, if you can find someone to video you and post a link here, you can often get some good feedback from some very knowledgeable people.

Shane

Dry-Land StrechCordz Usage Guide - I like some of the ones in here for using with resistance bands.  I use the bands when I'm traveling in hotel rooms and stuff, they seem pretty good.  

Also, check here http://beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=691you should be able to do the arm ones (and some others) with bands.

I don't think it is necessarily true that strength training doesn't help swimming. My high school coach always encouraged dry-land training to supplement our swims (although he did not coach our weight sessions, there was a group of swimmers that would go after practice). Exercises that work your lats, shoulders, and forearms will improve the force of your pull to an extent, but more important, development of these muscle group will improve your muscular endurance, thus allowing you to maintain a stronger pull for longer distances - you don't want to be maxing out or anything, just develop lean muscle in those areas with high reps/sets on low weight. In addition to weights, paddle sets in the pool will work these muscle groups extensively while also helping you to develop a good form.

I don't completely disagree with Shane, though, because as he said, strength training will not benefit a poor technique. But once the technique is there, it definitely helps.

Isn't the cross sectional area (when viewed from the front while swimming) of most teenagers substantially less than adult triathletes?  That coupled with form and a good cardio engine probably allows a small non-muscular person to swim that fast.  I'm no expert, just my initial reaction.

As newbie triathlete, that never swam laps before last year, I find time in the pool (3x per week) the number one factor in improvement but my shoulders, back muscles and triceps (having never really been used my entire life) always feel like they are in the rebuilding phase. I think weight exercises 1-2x a week are helping me too. 

While you may believe that strength training will transfer to gains in the pool, the research does not bear this out.  As I said, there are many reasons for strength training but faster endurance performance is not one of them.



If you want to build "muscular endurance" for a sport, the training needs to be specific; so to improve swim performance, you need to swim.  If you are lifiting weights you will get better at lifting weights but not likely faster in the water.



I would suggest skipping the weight room and just swimming (a small amount) with paddles.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2010-01-09 4:14 AM

While the cross sectional area presented to the water of a preteen female will be less than the average adult triathlete the additional strength of the adult will more than compensate for this.  Swimming fast does not require the ability to apply a high force to the water but rather a relatively small force to the water many times.  That is, it is about the power of the swimmer, not their absolute strength.



Precisely.

Shane

Ok so if you are looking for some strengthing exercises for at home I can give you some ideas for ones that our swim coach had us do in college. You dont really need heavy weights or need to go to the gym. If you have stretch cordz and maybe 5 or 10 lbs dumb bell you have more than enough. 

Using the Stretch cordz there is a variety of exercises. The main ones which will strengthen your swimming muscles are simulated the freestyles and butterfly  stroke movement with the cords. You want the cord to have good resistance so it has tension the whole way through the pull. You can do sets of 2 or 3 maybe :40 sec on and :10 sec rest then just right into the next exercise after the :10 seconds. Other exercises you can do is biceps, chest, rows, etc all with the cords, so right down a sequence of exercises then go!http://www.active.com/swimming/Articles/Stretch_Cords__The_Key_to_Offseason_Swim_Training.htm

There is some stretch cord ideas I found quick. but the butterfly and freestyle  will definitely be helpful if done right. 

If you have 5lbs weight work on  doing exercises for your scapula. Lay flat on your stomach and take the 5lbs weight in your hands, raise you chest slightly off the ground and start with your arms straight out in front of you and make little arm circles with the weights for maybe :30 secs then arm circles with your arms straight out to the side for 30 then down by your hips for 30. This will help strengthen the scapula muscles in the backs of your shoulders which are essential for swimmers. 

These are just a couple to help you get started, there are things in the pull that will help as well. Like sculling, pulling with a pull buoy, vertical kicking (leg strength), tarzan drill (swimming with your head out of the water looking forward).

Hopefully this was helpful for everyone.  

Micheal Phelps started strength training after he won his first 6 gold metals and 2 bronze.  You can do pretty good without hitting the weight room.  It helps more for sprinters (50m or 100m) then for any distance that a triathlete will swim.  I lift 1-2x a week but not for swim performance.
 

Ditto on the cord exercises. Lat. pulls using the cord on a door and tricep extensions done by turning away from the door are probably the best ones.

Curls and seated rowing (I suppose one-arm lifts while bent over a bench or chair would work at home) are also good for working the recovery muscles.

Push ups and sit ups are also helpful & easy to do at home.

It's also a good idea to regularly work the rotator cuff muscles. shoulder rolls & arm lifts with just a little bit of weight are two that come to mind.  Google "rotator cuff exercises"  you should find plenty of resources.


From actual experience, technique training will only get you so far. If you don't do weight training, you will be more prone to injury and your swim times will plateau. It's simple, the more water you pull, the faster you go. If you aren't strong enough to pull the water, your technique will fail and you'll end up with one of those high-turnover, low-speed strokes that lead to injury.

Go to the weight room, you'll improve faster if you do

Dan

He still did strength training, it just wasn't body-builder weight training.

Edited to fix my lame spelling

Edited by oldntrin 2010-01-09 1:48 PM

Scout21,
Looking at your logs for the last month, I'd say hit the pool at least 2x per week and work on building up your yardage to 3500.  Work in incorporating some pull sets (~20% of your total yardage) into you sessions as well as longer intervals.  I think your fast enough to limit drills to 10% of your total yardage.

I see that you are using swimplan.com workouts and they are great.  However, I found that they incorporate a lot of 25 and 50 yard repeats.  You need to go longer sometimes (like 1000 yard sets) and then sometimes do sets of 50s all out.

I'd suggest you check out Swim Workouts in a Binder.  They have really good workouts that are divided into workouts for distance, speed and form work.  Mix these up and you will be fine.

Swimming strength isn't built in the gym. It's built in the pool.  Most people are limited by their swim fitness rather than arm strength. 

That might be your opinion though the available evidence suggests different:

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1993 Aug;25(8):952-9. Links
Dry-land resistance training for competitive swimming.
Tanaka H, Costill DL, Thomas R, Fink WJ, Widrick JJ.
Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN 47306.
To determine the value of dry-land resistance training on front crawl swimming performance, two groups of 12 intercollegiate male swimmers were equated based upon preswimming performance, swim power values, and stroke specialties. Throughout the 14 wk of their competitive swimming season, both swim training group (SWIM, N = 12) and combined swim and resistance training group (COMBO, N = 12) swam together 6 d a week. In addition, the COMBO engaged in a 8-wk resistance training program 3 d a week. The resistance training was intended to simulate the muscle and swimming actions employed during front crawl swimming. Both COMBO and SWIM had significant (P < 0.05) but similar power gains as measured on the biokinetic swim bench and during a tethered swim over the 14-wk period. No change in distance per stroke was observed throughout the course of this investigation. No significant differences were found between the groups in any of the swim power and swimming performance tests. In this investigation, dry-land resistance training did not improve swimming performance despite the fact that the COMBO was able to increase the resistance used during strength training by 25-35%. The lack of a positive transfer between dry-land strength gains and swimming propulsive force may be due to the specificity of training. 

Though I doubt that'll change your opinion.

ETA - I forgot to mentioned; there are good reasons to incorporate dry land strenght training/drills such as muscle memory or addresing muscle imbalances (though the latter can be prevented by swimming all 4 strokes) but to improve performance based on the available evidence it is not one on of them.

Edited by JorgeM 2010-01-09 3:55 PM

I respectfully disagree.

Here's something a little more recent & with a larger population. Short story, strength training works -- "Though I doubt that'll change your opinion."

Another thing to keep in mind is that these studies are performed with competitive swimmers. In the case of some(many?) people at beginnertriathlete.com, I'd assume that swimming has been a casual, at best, endeavor before triathlon training. Consequently, the muscles used for swimming are not as developed as those in competitive swimmers.

On the other hand, there are certainly plenty of folks on this site who are very strong but do not swim very fast. Working solely on technique is certainly the right way to go for them.

I bought an amazing book... Swimming Anatomy... I shows the different muscles that are used for different strokes and what exercises to do for them.

Really great stuff.

Smart move. As an endurance athlete, we are better served doing higher reps with lower weights. I could go into a ton of explanation, but you seem to get it.

I'm about to test out with NASM for my personal training cert and I have been reading about training programs and reading information on how to help endurance athletes... vs. people in the gym who want cosmetic muscle.

That study doesn't support your opinion in particular for for our sport. Improvements during a 50 meter all out test? of course ST can produce results; anaerobic and aerobic efforts are two different things.

Your point about beginnertriathlete.com, well, since techinque is the usually the #1 issue regarding speed/perfomance and strenght has little do with our abilityt to produce work over time, based on the available evidence I would say most beginner swimmers will be better served by swimming more with professional instruction rather than wasting time with ST.

Yup.  I agree with Jonathan, Shane, & Jorge.

1.  Swim more.
2.  Find a way to get help with your technique.  Be it private instruction, some friends on the masters team who are good swimmers since there isn't a coach, taking video and posting it here.

Keep in mind that most triathletes swim far less than most swimmers.  A lot of triathletes are swimming 10k/week, a lot of swimmers might easily swim 35k/week.  Bottom line, most AG triathletes will see the most improvements in tris by spending more time doing SBR b/c we typically spend far less time in each sport than a swimmer, cyclist or runner would. 

I have this expectation that I should be reasonably close to the speed I had 15 years ago, but in reality I am so unbelievably much slower now.  I lift a lot more weights now and I swim a lot less.  So it's not surprising. 

If you have other reasons for wanting to hit the weights, then it's a totally different story.  But if it's to be a faster swimmer, your time will be better spent in the water.