Weight routines/exercises for swimming. (Page 2)

Low weight and high rep circuit training 2x a week is what we did on my team. We did some band and ball work but focused mainly on the core since that will help to improve technique, but isn't a replacement for time in the pool. If I remember correctly, lifting tends to compact muscles and joints and inhibit flexibility whereas swimming lengthens muscles and requires one to be flexible, but not overly so. If you look at the best swimmers, they tend to have long lean muscles and awesome abs and cores. This awesome core is what helps with technique. But, if you want to make your technique better though weights, you can't beyond core strengthening. Spending time in the pool doing technique drills will help you make big improvements in your time.

Thanks for all of the info everyone.  I'm not trying to replace time in the pool with a weight routine.  In fact, I did just recently find that my pull was inefficient, and in trying to correct that I noticed that I was using different muscles and they were tiring quickly.  I was just looking for specific exercises - in addition to swimming - that I could use to strengthen my newly found and out of shape swimming muscles.  I have what I need, so thanks for all of the advice and in put.

Scout21

Excellent post and I agree!

Core work can help your swim but you are far better off spending that time in the pool, unless you have already mastered freestyle and need to move on to enhancements!

Kevin

So I'll go ahead and disagree.  Swimming is not necessarily technique limited.  For beginners, yes.  For those who are hitting decent times (1:30/100  - my WAG) technique refinements will only boost you so far.  And musculature endurance can have a *lot* to do with swim performance.

Oldntrin referenced a good study that showed statistically significant effects in a very short event.  I would expect that this effect (IMO) is magnified in longer events by being able to utilize a higher submaximal muscular effort than without strength training.  I also expect that a lot of swimming helps here too.

The statement that swimming is all technique related simply cannot be supported.  Even those vaunted 12 year old girls are putting out a decent power output - considering of course that they have to punch a pretty darn small hole in the water.

This user's post has been ignored.

And this is why we have a separate strength training forum.

Swimming is limited by technique and swim specific fitness not by strength.  To improve both of these, an athlete should spend time in the pool doing lots of swimming (again, preferably with a coach on deck).  Although it may feel like you lack strength when you try to go faster, it is really your muscles telling you they like the swim specific fitness to maintain that power, not that you need more strength.  An athlete at 1:30/100 should simply increase swim volume as at that point their technique is probably relatively sound.



The fact that is it a very short event is the key to the study; 50m is an anerobic event for which strength training may prove to be beneficial.  Once an event goes beyond two minutes, the anaerobic component is greatly overshadowed by the aerobic ability of the athlete (which is going to be improved by more time in the pool, not by time doing strength training).  If the study had tested 400m swim performance and seen statistically significant effects then I would agree with you as that is an aerobic event.



I am not disagreeing that the 12 year old girls have a decent power output; however being able to maintain a decent power output mean that they are able to apply a relatively small force very often which again, is best trained through time in the pool.

Shane

no simply because as I said before; an aerobic and anaerobic efforts are two different things. Just because ST makes sense for short explosive events that primarily rely on the anaerobic energy system like 50mts swim, 100 mts run or 1k track cycling sprint does not mean that ST will provide that the same for aerobic events such as a 1.5K swim, a 26.2 mile run or a 56 mile ride. The study presented doesn't support your opinion and neither does the available evidence.

You said, 12 yo girls are producing decent power output (work/time) and to produce great amounts of power requires little % of strenght, it is not maximal strenght what matters for how much work you can do for a long period of time. IOW is about producing aerobically sustainable power which when compared to maximal strenght is a very small percentage (not to mentioned the difference adaptations produce by aerobic and anaerobic training).

If you don't believe me come and we can do a power threshold field test; let's see how much power you can generate over the test given your fitness and weight and how much torque you apply to the pedals on average. Then we can compare that torque as a % of your maximal 1 squat lift  and determine how much strenght you need to  turn those pedals when you are going all out for 1 hr while cycling...

Jorge clearly feels pretty strongly about it & he's got quite a bit of coaching experience, so I respect his opinion.

I spent a bit more time looking for more studies and was surprised to find how little research has been done on this.  There have only been a handful of studies over the past 15 yrs or so and those have had such small sample sizes and were limited to in-season competition swimmers that (IMO) the results are really not conclusive.

If the studies conclusively determined that dry-land strength training didn't help swimming, I can tell you that there would be thousands and thousands of age-group swimmers across the country who would be ecstatic. (my opinion)

Some similar studies have been performed for running & cycling, with varying results. It seems that, of the three sports, only running seems to benefit from strength training.

I think it would be great to put together a test of BT folks to test this out. One group does strength training, one group adds an extra swim workout, and one group sticks to their triathlon plan w/o strength training.  It's probably not feasible, but it'd be interesting.

Apologies to all for helping to drive the thread off-topic. I'll check the weight training area for more insights.

Dan

I'm not really that surprised. Only recently has weight training become mainstream. When I started with weights as a teenager in the '80s, I was considered kind of weird. (I'm still weird, so not much has changed.) Weight training was the realm of narcissistic bodybuilders who looked more like freaks than athletes, and who wanted to look like that? I agree - I don't wish to look like a big, bulky bodybuilder. But certain rogue coaches began to use weight training for their athletes and noticed improved performance. Other coaches followed suit. The medical community realized that weight bearing exercises improve bone density. Today, grandma lifts weights to prevent osteoporosis. Weight training is no longer the realm of the strange, but there is still lots of misinformation out there.

For those who wish to pursue general fitness, I believe in a good mix of weights and aerobic exercise. Interestingly, the sports juggernaut of the former Soviet Union was not based on specialization, at least not initially. Kids were encouraged to participate in a variety of physical activities to develop "general physical preparation" or GPP. Even older athletes who were already specializing in a given sport were encouraged to engage in GPP in the off-season. Weightlifters might do some swimming, swimmers might do some weightlifting, and runners might perform some basic gymnastic movements. No one was "worried" about whether this would hurt or improve performance in the main sport. The idea was to do something completely different to give both the mind and body a break from the main sport to prevent burnout.

Will adopting a GPP program make you a better athlete? I don't know, but the idea has some merit. Is it practical for a person with a job and family who wishes to maximize his or her tri performance to even try to do something else in the off-season without hurting their tri performance? I say, don't even worry about it.

I will continue to lift until I die. I live by the following motto: "Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general." Thus speaketh Mark Rippetoe. But I will also run and swim and cross-country ski and do other stuff as time and money allow.