Swim sets compared to endurance
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2010-01-21 1:23 PM |
Veteran 264 Olathe | Subject: Swim sets compared to endurance This may not be an easily answered question but here goes. This is my first real season of training and competing and I am spending a lot more time in the pool as well as running. I am up and capable of doing 2000 yrd swim workouts broken in to sets, but how does that translate to continous swimming? I mean yeah I can swim a 2000 yrd workout but how is that preparing me for a 1500 meter or 1.2 mile continuous swim? |
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2010-01-21 1:33 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance It's building your fitness and, hopefully, your technique. If you are not taking long rests between sets, you can build your endurance in sets just as well (perhaps better) than long continuous swimmming. And you can typically focus better on achieving good technique within smaller sets. That said, it's a good idea to do a few longer, continuous swims as you get closer to your races. |
2010-01-21 1:33 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance I'm not a swimming expert, but I'd say 'pretty well'. I was in your boat not long ago, and until later in my IM prep, I did not do long continuous swims. I did lots of sets of 100s and 200s, and 400s. Later in the season, I did one long continuous swim per week. I maybe did 6 or so of these, increasing the length each time. Honestly, this was more for psychological comfort. Those long continuous swims were much easier than the more intense sets (which probably means I wasn't swimming them hard enough). |
2010-01-21 1:38 PM in reply to: #2626890 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance just to put some numbers to it, i swam for 2 or 3 years just doing longer intervals (500-800) and steady swims. changed that to all shorter intervals (50-150 with a few up to 300 in), same total yardage or just a bit more, and i dropped my 2000m time by 8 min and my 1500m time be 5 i have swam over 500 in a pool in the last 2 years exactly 6 times. |
2010-01-21 1:44 PM in reply to: #2626909 |
Veteran 278 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance newbz - 2010-01-21 1:38 PM i have swam over 500 in a pool in the last 2 years exactly 6 times. Wow. This is officially my training nugget of the day to consider. |
2010-01-21 1:46 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Extreme Veteran 502 Washington | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance i bet you could do the 2000 yards continous |
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2010-01-21 1:47 PM in reply to: #2626931 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance randomguymike - 2010-01-21 12:44 PM newbz - 2010-01-21 1:38 PM i have swam over 500 in a pool in the last 2 years exactly 6 times. Wow. This is officially my training nugget of the day to consider. let me clarify, because that looks bad. total workouts are much longer than that. single intervasl are not, i should have said i have not swam over 500 at one time, or in one interval |
2010-01-21 1:52 PM in reply to: #2626939 |
Veteran 278 Chicago, IL | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance newbz - 2010-01-21 1:47 PM randomguymike - 2010-01-21 12:44 PM let me clarify, because that looks bad. total workouts are much longer than that. single intervasl are not, i should have said i have not swam over 500 at one time, or in one intervalnewbz - 2010-01-21 1:38 PM i have swam over 500 in a pool in the last 2 years exactly 6 times. Wow. This is officially my training nugget of the day to consider. I knew where you were going, I just always had one of my three weekly swims be a 1 x X,XXX set. Even in my ladder set, I usually had a 500 or 600 in there and at this point only going Oly for now, maybe HIM later this summer. Considering you're going longer & faster, something for me to think about changing up. |
2010-01-21 1:59 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Pro 4360 Baton Rouge area | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance +1000 on what has been said. Working towards my first HIM and basically substituing my Masters class for the swim portion of my HIM plan with some long swims thrown in. The long swims are more mental barriors to push thru than an endurance issue. Being new to swimming the thought of swimming a mile was a bit daunting. After my first 1600m continuous swim I felt great and thrilled to have hit that mark. After 1600 meters yesterday in my masters class I felt like I had been beat to heck and the coach was out to kill us (and we weren't even done yet). |
2010-01-21 2:01 PM in reply to: #2626953 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance Yeah i think, unless you are swimming a lot (for triathletes upwards of 15-20k per week), the merrit of a long swim is really just for you to know you can, be ok doing it, etc (and there is nothing wrong with that), but from a speed standpoint i think you get very little out of it compared to the time you put into it vs what you could gain from intervals. If you are going threshold intervals on short rest, you will end up getting in the distance, or logner, with only a few sec of rest, you can hold a faster speed for much longer like this, and not have form fall apart. |
2010-01-21 2:02 PM in reply to: #2626975 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance GaryRM - 2010-01-21 12:59 PM +1000 on what has been said. Working towards my first HIM and basically substituing my Masters class for the swim portion of my HIM plan with some long swims thrown in. The long swims are more mental barriors to push thru than an endurance issue. Being new to swimming the thought of swimming a mile was a bit daunting. After my first 1600m continuous swim I felt great and thrilled to have hit that mark. After 1600 meters yesterday in my masters class I felt like I had been beat to heck and the coach was out to kill us (and we weren't even done yet). exactly. when i am actually swimming, those tough swim sets are my hardest workouts of the week. |
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2010-01-21 2:25 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Veteran 264 Olathe | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance Thanks for all the replies. I guess I am just worried, the one tri I did last year was a sprint distance and I really struggled with the swim, now granted I have probably swam more this month than I did entirely before that event, but I just want to make sure that I don't struggle like that again. |
2010-01-21 2:44 PM in reply to: #2626931 |
Pro 4578 Vancouver, BC | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance randomguymike - 2010-01-21 11:44 AM newbz - 2010-01-21 1:38 PM i have swam over 500 in a pool in the last 2 years exactly 6 times. Wow. This is officially my training nugget of the day to consider. Yes, this is the same for me too. My 1 hour swim workouts (I swim with a masters club) are regularly 2500-3000m. I've been in this club for 3 or 4 years and we've swam a set of 400m probably not more than a dozen times. |
2010-01-21 3:37 PM in reply to: #2627131 |
Veteran 139 Metairie | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance I swam a great deal when I was younger. I had a coach who was a sadist. Even when we were doing 10,000 a day in summer two-a-days, our longest single interval was 800's. We were FAR more likely to be doing 50's,100's,200's,400's. During short course, I explicitly remember a fascination with 75 yard sets (go figure), I guess it just made you change things up some. Now that I am doing Tri's and swimming again, I warmup with a 500, then after, I am somewhere between 50's and 300's 90% of the time. That allows me to get out of the water toward the front end of the local sprint races (top 5 or so). It all heads south from there. |
2010-01-21 7:46 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Bob 2194 Binghamton, NY | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance I agree with David (newbz) that you do not NEED to swim the long swims. In fact, the only way to swim faster over a distance is to swim fast in workouts. The endurance training you get on the bike and run will transfer to the longer distance swims. That being said, I like to do some longer swims just for variety. |
2010-01-21 8:13 PM in reply to: #2626869 |
Master 2460 | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance I learned about this "short set" training issue in swimming about 6 months ago, and (painfully) changed my swim workouts all to shorter sets of 50-200, and occsaional 400s. It's definitely working - I'm gradually accelerating in pace, after a lot of no speed increase. I had been doing some long continuous swims before that of 30-45 mins, to no effect on my swim pace. |
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2010-01-22 9:09 AM in reply to: #2627839 |
Veteran 277 Syracuse, NY | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance I do one long, continuous workout and one shorter workout each week. Really, the only way to swim fast is to practice swimming fast. Which is why many people tend to favor repeating sets of shorter distances and higher intensity. |
2010-01-22 9:16 AM in reply to: #2626869 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance As others have indicated, I rarely swim over 400m in a set unless I am doing a test set (1500m). My typical workouts are in the 2500-3500m range and will involve lots of time around threshold pace with short rest between the sets. Your body will respond to the broken sets (assuming you are using short rest) as though it was continuous swimming but because of the short rests, you can maintain a faster pace to realize a bigger training effect. |
2010-01-22 9:24 AM in reply to: #2626869 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance Maybe I am doing something very wrong, since my results and training are very different. When I take off time, my swimming slows to a crawl (haha - get it? crawl? like the swim stroke? never mind). When I pick up again, I just start swimming distance. This month, my swims have ranged from about 30-60+ minutes. My time (I am slow - remember?) for 100 yards has decreased 15% - about 20 seconds when averaged out just since the beggining of this month. My lap-lap times are more consistent, and I can tell which laps I zoned out too much as they are about 2 seconds slower than the ones I paid attention to my form. So my experience is that I am improving significantly with long continuous swims. Maybe I would be faster with shorter intervals? But I am certainly happy with the results. Maybe it's because I am too slow to begin with, or because I don't have a coach, so I have to remember for myself what the plan for the day would be, and I am taking the easy way out (seriously, who besides a triathlete would say swimming for 1-1.5 or more miles is "taking the easy way out"?) Edited by gearboy 2010-01-22 9:25 AM |
2010-01-22 9:48 AM in reply to: #2628588 |
Regular 316 | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance gsmacleod - 2010-01-22 9:16 AM As others have indicated, I rarely swim over 400m in a set unless I am doing a test set (1500m). My typical workouts are in the 2500-3500m range and will involve lots of time around threshold pace with short rest between the sets. Your body will respond to the broken sets (assuming you are using short rest) as though it was continuous swimming but because of the short rests, you can maintain a faster pace to realize a bigger training effect. |
2010-01-22 9:56 AM in reply to: #2628620 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance gearboy - 2010-01-22 10:24 AM Maybe I am doing something very wrong, since my results and training are very different. When I take off time, my swimming slows to a crawl (haha - get it? crawl? like the swim stroke? never mind). When I pick up again, I just start swimming distance. This month, my swims have ranged from about 30-60+ minutes. My time (I am slow - remember?) for 100 yards has decreased 15% - about 20 seconds when averaged out just since the beggining of this month. My lap-lap times are more consistent, and I can tell which laps I zoned out too much as they are about 2 seconds slower than the ones I paid attention to my form. So my experience is that I am improving significantly with long continuous swims. Maybe I would be faster with shorter intervals? But I am certainly happy with the results. Maybe it's because I am too slow to begin with, or because I don't have a coach, so I have to remember for myself what the plan for the day would be, and I am taking the easy way out (seriously, who besides a triathlete would say swimming for 1-1.5 or more miles is "taking the easy way out"?) You're not doing anything "wrong". Anybody who practices their swimming should get better and it doesn't really matter what kind of sets you use (or if you use any at all). However, the most effective way to get faster is to swim faster. Shorter sets have advantages in allowing you to both push yourself harder and still focus on maintaing form. And they can build endurance just as effectively. So, yes, you would likely be faster if you started using some intervals and pushing yourself. But, if you are happy with your results and enjoy it, there is nothing at all "wrong" with what you are doing. |
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2010-01-22 10:30 AM in reply to: #2628690 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance prieto539 - 2010-01-22 11:48 AM As a wannabe HIMer struggling with the swim what would be a sample w/o per week?? Here are a couple, enjoy 400 ch (no more than 100 free) 6x50 drill 200 long, strong and technical 4x25 sprint on 1:00 40x50 on :50 16 as every 4th fast 12 as every 3rd fast 8 as every 2nd fast 4 all fast 300 ch (no free) or 300 choice 4x100 drill as 50 drill/50 swim 4x75 descend on 25 4x{ 300 T pace on 5:30 2x100 fast on 1:45} 400 choice Shane |
2010-01-22 11:20 AM in reply to: #2626984 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance newbz - 2010-01-21 1:01 PM Yeah i think, unless you are swimming a lot (for triathletes upwards of 15-20k per week), the merrit of a long swim is really just for you to know you can, be ok doing it, etc (and there is nothing wrong with that), but from a speed standpoint i think you get very little out of it compared to the time you put into it vs what you could gain from intervals. If you are going threshold intervals on short rest, you will end up getting in the distance, or logner, with only a few sec of rest, you can hold a faster speed for much longer like this, and not have form fall apart. I think it helps to do the occasional 1,000 yard set. It helps you as far as pacing, just the overall boredom level involved etc. I do mostly 100-200's but I like to throw in a 500 or 1000 once or twice a week. |
2010-01-22 11:51 AM in reply to: #2626869 |
Supersonicus Idioticus 2439 Thunder Bay, ON | Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance When you're out of shape, doing x thousand yards means you can probably swim maybe 80% straight. When you are in shape, and you're not taking breaks between sets because you HAVE to, you can probably swim 200% more (300% if your life depended on it). |
2010-01-22 12:12 PM in reply to: #2627131 |
Subject: RE: Swim sets compared to endurance jeng - 2010-01-21 12:44 PM randomguymike - 2010-01-21 11:44 AM newbz - 2010-01-21 1:38 PMĀ i have swam over 500 in a pool in the last 2 years exactly 6 times. Wow. This is officially my training nugget of the day to consider. Yes, this is the same for me too. My 1 hour swim workouts (I swim with a masters club) are regularly 2500-3000m. I've been in this club for 3 or 4 years and we've swam a set of 400m probably not more than a dozen times. Add one more. But I'll add Spring - Fall we swim 1 to 2 miles in the ocean once a week. But over 500 in the pool? Unless I show up on a blown out Sunday to get a swim in and I am just too lazy to come up with a set, I rarely go over 500 |
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