Time VS. Distance Training

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gr8gorilla

2010-06-02 12:33 PM

Member

115

West Georgia

Subject: Time VS. Distance Training

What are everyone's thoughts on Time vs Distance Training for the various sports. This is my first year training for triathlon. Up until this time last year I was a pure runner. I was above average I think, 19:23 5K, and 5:38 Mile. My running season ended with a nasty calf/upper Achilles tendon injury. I started to bike, on hybrid I borrowed then bought a nice road bike cause I liked it so much. I decided to get my running back up to where I was and try some triathlons this year. I started training seriously again about 6 weeks ago. I am using a HR program for beginner sprint. It is time based. I am really disappointed in the progress. My swimming is getting better. I can go longer distances but my bike and run seem to be stagnating. I am getting the same distance's or close to them in the same times week after week.

I am having trouble coping with the injury thing because after a lot of time on the bike my cardio fitness is good but running is now abysmally slow compared to what I was pre-injury.

Starting next week I am going to replace my time based running in the program I am doing from here with a distance/pace based program from runners world. I am going to continue with the swim training as I am really a beginner swimmer. I want your opinions on this and some suggestions for similar training I can do on the bike. I have decent base and it seems that this program I am on is all about base, no tempo, no speed work, no real long runs, and the same for the bike.

I don't know where to look for bike programs. My plan is to use the program I am on now as a basic guide for long and short days based on time and put in progressive distance workouts for the bike and run. Please give me recommendations on where to find some alternate pure bike programs and any other suggestions you may have.

I know this post is kind of all over the place but I wanted to share as much information as possible to get the most helpful feedback from those more experienced in this than I.

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Oldteen

2010-06-02 9:15 PM

in reply to: #2896839

Master

2426

Central Indiana

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

Both have their backers. I'm no coach, but I've always felt it more useful tracking miles (or swim meters) and intensity (e.g. HR, RPE) rather than just time. I'm from cycling background and personally never cared for time-based sessions except for intervals. Even then I prefer Fartleks & spirited group rides to being slave to a stopwatch. Anyway-seems to me that distance is key metric for endurance sessions, esp as a yardstick as event gets closer. In helping new cyclists prep for 1st century my bike club has always gradually increased ride miles- however long it takes to finish. Some people may dog time-based training efforts just to put in their saddle time, but miles are miles. Time is still kept as a record of progress, like PB 25mi or whatever. This approach has worked well for slower riders, & I still smile every time a newb cyclist reaches that 1st century Rite-of-Passage. It also works well for those with specific speed goals (e.g. breaking 6hr or 5 hr century).

I know many experienced athletes favor time-based training, but then those athletes already know their paces pretty well. If you want you could chart your time/distance relationship again as you regain that old form, as I'm sure you will.

Edited by Oldteen 2010-06-02 9:25 PM

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gr8gorilla

2010-06-02 9:28 PM

in reply to: #2896839

Member

115

West Georgia

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

yeah you are right, I could have a run at a certain distance and intensity scheduled and know within a minute or two how long it would take me. i.e easy run, 8 miles, is gonna be right around an hour. I have decided that I am going to apply the distance instead of time to my training. I think I will feel better about my runs any way. I also think it tends to make one push a little bit and HTFU through plateaus. Because you know you have a distance and a time goal you are working on for your races. Just going out and putting in time is great if you have no base but once you do, I think you should focus on how fast you do it.

I think if you run easy and slow, bike easy and slow, and then swim easy and slow all the time then you are going to race easy and slow. I know I have to have easy slow days but I also need some fast days and some tempo days.

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wbayek

2010-06-03 8:52 AM

in reply to: #2897996

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

gr8gorilla - 2010-06-02 10:28 PM yeah you are right, I could have a run at a certain distance and intensity scheduled and know within a minute or two how long it would take me. i.e easy run, 8 miles, is gonna be right around an hour. I have decided that I am going to apply the distance instead of time to my training. I think I will feel better about my runs any way. I also think it tends to make one push a little bit and HTFU through plateaus. Because you know you have a distance and a time goal you are working on for your races. Just going out and putting in time is great if you have no base but once you do, I think you should focus on how fast you do it.

I think if you run easy and slow, bike easy and slow, and then swim easy and slow all the time then you are going to race easy and slow. I know I have to have easy slow days but I also need some fast days and some tempo days.

This has potential. But that last sentence may be enough to diffuse the firestorm.

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gr8gorilla

2010-06-03 9:32 AM

in reply to: #2898539

Member

115

West Georgia

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

This has potential. But that last sentence may be enough to diffuse the firestorm.

What do you mean diffuse the firestorm?

I know that most people who are fast, also train fast. When I was fast, I ran a lot of easy training days under 7min miles. That is not blistering or anything. I mean I wasn't setting world records but I was probably top 10 for my age group most of the time. I just noticed that the beginner program I am on has a lot "easy" running, "easy" biking, and "easy" swimming. I don't remember having that many "easy" days in my schedule when I was just running.

I would have a speed day, a long day, and a tempo day. I also had two "just run" days. One would be easy say a third of my long run distance and the other would be about half my long run distance. Of course near the end before my injury I was around 50 miles per week. And I understand that is a common injury point for runners.

Anyway I digress. I know that training is individual. What I really want is some comments, maybe some advice about how to best work everything in.

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msaskin

2010-06-03 10:19 AM

in reply to: #2898689

Regular

102

Chapel Hill, North Carolina

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

gr8gorilla - 2010-06-03 10:32 AM

This has potential. But that last sentence may be enough to diffuse the firestorm.

My take is that for something like a triathlon the actual training program is pretty individualized based on the background you bring into it.

As someone who swam competitively for 15+ years, I spend very little time on my swim, 2 days/week and about 6K yards/week maximum. At this point it's mostly maintenance for me (I'm OK with my speed at the moment) so I'll do an easy warm-up and some drill-work, and then longer sets (generally 500 yard repeats) while even splitting or negative splitting the 100's.

On the bike, I've been riding forever but never gotten serious about training. At this point I'm riding 3-4 times per week, with 1 ride being a long ride (50+ miles) at a pretty good pace (a bit under what I think my race pace for the HIM will be) and the other rides being shorter (typically 1 hour) working on intervals, hills, or doing a brick.

My running base is non-existent, so that's where I'm focusing my time. I'm trying to run 5 or 6 days of the week following a modified plan from the other tri forum out there

. I usually have a long run on weekends (8 or 9 miles at present), 2-3 short runs during the week (15-20 minutes at a very relaxed pace, ~9:30/mi), 1 run tied to a brick as listed above, and 1-2 mid length (45-60 min) runs with hills or intervals thrown in. My .02c is that my run focus needs to be on developing a base before I devote significant effort to speed work and the coaches I've spoken to agree; I should caveat this with the fact that in all other sports I've always gravitated towards endurance/long distance events. This year will tell, but I've got a feeling that HIM distance should be a good sweet spot for me.

-matthew

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gr8gorilla

2010-06-03 10:28 AM

in reply to: #2896839

Member

115

West Georgia

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

I totally agree with the Base thing. I really like the running programs from runners world. If you need to increase your running distance and speed IMHO that is the way to go. Runners World go to the calculator tell it what it wants and print off a program. Then work into your Triathlon training somehow.

Question, being you were a competitive swimmer, have you ever thought of ITU races. Because drafting is legal, being a good swimmer is one of the most important aspects. You get out of the water with the lead pack and draft along to the run. Then its pretty much a race between you and your draft pack.

Just something to consider. They also have long distance ITU.

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msaskin

2010-06-03 10:54 AM

in reply to: #2898839

Regular

102

Chapel Hill, North Carolina

Subject: RE: Time VS. Distance Training

gr8gorilla - 2010-06-03 11:28 AM I totally agree with the Base thing. I really like the running programs from runners world. If you need to increase your running distance and speed IMHO that is the way to go. Runners World go to the calculator tell it what it wants and print off a program. Then work into your Triathlon training somehow.

Question, being you were a competitive swimmer, have you ever thought of ITU races. Because drafting is legal, being a good swimmer is one of the most important aspects. You get out of the water with the lead pack and draft along to the run. Then its pretty much a race between you and your draft pack.

Just something to consider. They also have long distance ITU.

I have not considered it. This is my first season in a while that I've actually gotten serious about following a training plan (as opposed to just haphazardly riding my bike and putting miles in). We'll see what this season holds but I'll make a note to look into ITU races.

-matthew

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gsmacleod

2010-06-03 11:08 AM

in reply to: #2898839