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2010-06-22 8:20 AM

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Elite
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Subject: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
My first race of the year was this past weekend, and things did not go as planned.  Here's a little background:

I had gone to the race course 2 weeks in advance and ridden the course a couple of times paying attention to my PM.  First time, I didn't push overly hard and my avg power was 187 (FTP around 220), second time I pushed myself at what I considered to be race pace and my avg power was 213.  With that 213 I figured I had a little left to play with on race day.

Fast forward to race day and I decided I was going to ignore HR and only pay attention to power.  I knew where I wanted to be and the idea was to stick with this plan.  Didn't work out so well.  After a decent swim, I hopped on the bike and promptly found I had no power (in my legs).  By the end of the ride my avg power was 176, almost 20% lower than intended/expected.  But there didn't seem to be anything I could do to increase my output during the ride, I had nothing else.

I did look at my HR data after the fact and found that my avg HR was 175, which is rather high.  On the 213 watt ride I'd averaged in the 160's.  During the race my power yo yo'd all over the place, but the HR was between 173-177 from start to finish of the bike.  It's as if I was maxed out before I even got going.

So after a very long winded intro - are there thoughts on what went wrong for me, and what I can do to avoid this in the next race?  Is this a case of just bad swim conditioning leading to a poor ride (only spent 16min swimming)?  Is it a case of just a bad day?  Other thoughts?

I have 4 weeks before the next race, and would like to do whatever necessary to avoid a similar power failure at that event.  (Logs are not updated, so please avoid saying training is sporadic. Wink)


2010-06-22 8:30 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Pro
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
Call me crazy ... but if you are looking for answers then the first place I would look at is the training leading up to the race - which cannot be done because the training blog is not updated.

That said, PM is just another (more accurate) measure of output. Just as in HR training there are a number of outside factors that can affect your abilities on race day: sleep, nutrition, weather, hydration ... and a whole host of other factors.

What happened during the race is likely a symptom of things that happened leading up to race day.  I would start looking at the 12 hours before the race and then work myself backwards, thinking about things like what + when you last ate, how you slept, work outs leading up to the race, etc.

2010-06-22 8:50 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Regular
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
How was T1? Did you feel like your HR was high at that point or did it just start once you were on the bike? Also, just out of curiousity how was your breathing? Able to take a deep breath?

Reason I ask is in a local sprint tri I did in March, the swim was short and relatively EZ, but the run to T1 and some issues in T1 (getting wetsuit off and then realizing at bike mount line that timing strap came off with the wetsuit requiring me to double back) got me a little frustrated and frazzled.

Didn't realize it at the time, but this set the tone for the rest of my race. Heart reate was through the roof and couldn't get a deep breath. I pushed through it and ended up doing O.K., but again it was just a sprint.

So, were you relaxed (relatively speaking) during T1?
2010-06-22 8:57 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
I agree, it's hard to offer suggestions without knowing a little more about your training leading up to the race. It sounds like maybe your legs were fatigued... did you do some long or hard (high intensity) bike or run workouts in the week or so leading into the race? Allow yourself ample recovery? Was the weather for your race hotter/more humid than you've had time to acclimate to? There are any number of things that might have affected how you did on that particular day.... Keeping your logs up to date is a good idea if you want advice on how to improve
2010-06-22 8:59 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Master
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
could you have been in the wrong gear for highest efficiency? What was your RPM? I believe you should shoot for 90-100 and that also allows that you would have something left for the run...

I usually go by RPM rather than Power ratings to insure maximum efficiency on the bike...

2010-06-22 9:09 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Champion
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
How much swimming have you done this year?  How hard did you go in the swim?

What was your NP for the race (and training rides)?  When did you test FTP?  How did you test FTP?

How was your run?

ETA - What was your target wattage for the ride?  What was the ride distance?

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2010-06-22 9:09 AM


2010-06-22 9:32 AM
in reply to: #2936100

Expert
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Cape Elizabeth, Maine
Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
Not sure about you...but in races my HR is WAY higher at the same effort as training....I remember a couple of years ago lining up before a 1/2 marathon and my HR was in the 120s just standing there....call me nervous excited.   You may be the same.

Also, what type of race was it?   Was it a sprint?  If so, dump the HR monitor and just go.   If it was say a 1/2IM, then maybe you want the HR during the event. 

Lastly,  maybe you went out to hard in the swim or if there was a lot of heat...this would cause your HR to jack up.
2010-06-22 9:57 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Elite
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
To answer some of the questions, and maybe help provide a little more insight:

 - Race was just a Sprint (and a short one at that, with just a 19km ride)
 - HR for me leaving T1 is usually quite high, but settles down a bit after a few minutes on the ride
 - Training leading up to the race had been reasonable with a mix of longer outdoor rides (2hrs) with 1 hr sessions on the trainer.  The week of the race I only rode once for 45min, swam a couple of times and ran once.
 - FTP of 220 came from a 20min and 5min test about 6-7 weeks ago.  Goal watts for the race was right around the 213 (similar to the training ride).
 - NP for the race was around 190, and for most training rides it's around 215-220, and avg watts are usually between 185-200 depending on the ride.
 - Swimming usually 3x a week, just short 30min sessions since I have to swim on lunch.  I went hard on the swim, but didn't feel that it was overly hard.  Although I did feel a stitch after I came out of the water.
 - Run was a nightmare.  The stitch stayed with me on the bike (but was manageable), but on the run turned into full blown GI/pain issues.  I walked/shuffled a 7:00min pace for the first couple of km, where I'd been expecting to run around 4:30min or better.
2010-06-22 10:02 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Master
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
My guess is you went too hard on the swim and/or in transition.

Have you swam hard before and then tried to bike hard? Pwr can be significantly affected by a hard swim in my experience.
2010-06-22 10:07 AM
in reply to: #2936100

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Expert
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Falls Church, VA
Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
Same thing happened to me on Sunday, and I'm chalking it up to going too hard on the swim.  My HR monitor does work in the water and I was up around 165 or so when I glanced, even when I told myself to slow down, and it was up above 170 during the run to T1..(which is right around LT)

If this happens again, my plan is to just completely soft pedal it to fully let my HR return to semi-normal levels, then go again as planned.  I wanted to do well on the bike last weekend so I never really allowed myself to fully recover and i fell apart on the run.  Of course pacing the swim better is going to be key as well.. I think a 150 or so HR coming out of the water would be ideal for me and my typical HR levels.

I'm guessing it was your swim pacing myself, hope some others can add and possibly confirm or deny my hypothesis.
2010-06-22 10:25 AM
in reply to: #2936354

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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
GoFaster - 2010-06-22 10:57 AM To answer some of the questions, and maybe help provide a little more insight:

 - Race was just a Sprint (and a short one at that, with just a 19km ride)
 - HR for me leaving T1 is usually quite high, but settles down a bit after a few minutes on the ride
 - Training leading up to the race had been reasonable with a mix of longer outdoor rides (2hrs) with 1 hr sessions on the trainer.  The week of the race I only rode once for 45min, swam a couple of times and ran once.
 - FTP of 220 came from a 20min and 5min test about 6-7 weeks ago.  Goal watts for the race was right around the 213 (similar to the training ride).
 - NP for the race was around 190, and for most training rides it's around 215-220, and avg watts are usually between 185-200 depending on the ride.
 - Swimming usually 3x a week, just short 30min sessions since I have to swim on lunch.  I went hard on the swim, but didn't feel that it was overly hard.  Although I did feel a stitch after I came out of the water.
 - Run was a nightmare.  The stitch stayed with me on the bike (but was manageable), but on the run turned into full blown GI/pain issues.  I walked/shuffled a 7:00min pace for the first couple of km, where I'd been expecting to run around 4:30min or better.

Are you confident you didn't have some sort of viral stomack bug?  We had a bug like this going around these parts a few weeks back.  Not a major illness but it did mess with the GI some and zap some energy out of you.  I got a rash that I normally do with some viruses and took it easy, felt it on training for about 3 days.  Same deal with my wife who's running 30-40 mpw and doing many exercise & spin classes at the Y.


2010-06-22 12:11 PM
in reply to: #2936354

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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
The data you provided is too incomplete to be of much use in offering any helpful advice. What follows is just a guess. It sounds like insufficient swim training coupled with pushing harder than your swim training would allow in the race that led to an elevated HR. The way to avoid this is to train more effectively at all three sports, not just the ones you like or are the most convenient. You didn't mention the swim distance, but if it was only 500 meters then 16 minutes in the swim would indicate you may have used lots of energy just thrashing around. Train to swim the race distance at a slow and steady pace that won't elevate your HR excessively, then swim that way in the race. Take it easy on the bike until you bring your HR and breathing under control, hold that easy pace for a few minutes before ramping up the effort. Heat or other weather could have been a factor, but overall it sounds more like a swimming problem.
2010-06-22 1:06 PM
in reply to: #2936100

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Elite
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
The swim was 750m, and I finished in just under 16min - which is a decent swim time for me, but shouldn't be considered overly hard since I swam just a bit slower for my 1/2 Iron in September, and didn't seem to have issues on the bike (at least not the first 60km).

I don't disagree that my swim needs to improve, and I've told myself I need to work on my swim conditioning to allow a better bike afterwards.  That said, I still struggle with the fact that I'm already BOP (once in a while MOP) on the swim.  How do others dial it back on the swim - i.e. how much are you willing to give up from an overall race standpoint to just take it easy on the swim?
2010-06-22 2:48 PM
in reply to: #2936100

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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
GoFaster - 2010-06-22 8:20 AM My first race of the year was this past weekend, and things did not go as planned.  Here's a little background:

I had gone to the race course 2 weeks in advance and ridden the course a couple of times paying attention to my PM.  First time, I didn't push overly hard and my avg power was 187 (FTP around 220), second time I pushed myself at what I considered to be race pace and my avg power was 213.  With that 213 I figured I had a little left to play with on race day.

Fast forward to race day and I decided I was going to ignore HR and only pay attention to power.  I knew where I wanted to be and the idea was to stick with this plan.  Didn't work out so well.  After a decent swim, I hopped on the bike and promptly found I had no power (in my legs).  By the end of the ride my avg power was 176, almost 20% lower than intended/expected.  But there didn't seem to be anything I could do to increase my output during the ride, I had nothing else.

I did look at my HR data after the fact and found that my avg HR was 175, which is rather high.  On the 213 watt ride I'd averaged in the 160's.  During the race my power yo yo'd all over the place, but the HR was between 173-177 from start to finish of the bike.  It's as if I was maxed out before I even got going.

So after a very long winded intro - are there thoughts on what went wrong for me, and what I can do to avoid this in the next race?  Is this a case of just bad swim conditioning leading to a poor ride (only spent 16min swimming)?  Is it a case of just a bad day?  Other thoughts?

I have 4 weeks before the next race, and would like to do whatever necessary to avoid a similar power failure at that event.  (Logs are not updated, so please avoid saying training is sporadic. Wink)


How long was the race?
RPE wise 1 to 10, how hard was your swim?
What was your VI. How many power spikes over your FTP for 5-10 seconds did you have through the race?
How much taper did you do for the race?
2010-06-23 7:51 AM
in reply to: #2937173

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Elite
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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
JorgeM - 2010-06-22 3:48 PM
How long was the race?
RPE wise 1 to 10, how hard was your swim?
What was your VI. How many power spikes over your FTP for 5-10 seconds did you have through the race?
How much taper did you do for the race?


Jorge - This was just a short Sprint.  750M, 19km, 5km.  RPE on the swim was somewhere around 7-8 (8 on the swim back in due to a little bit of current).  I'm not sure what VI is (Power Agent software doesn't show it), but my IF was 0.766.  I had a few power spikes on the hills but not many, and these were all at a considerably lower wattage than what I am accustomed to seeing.

Taper for the race was essentially the week leading up to the race.  One 60km ride the previous weekend, 2 OWS swims, 1 run, and one spin on the trainer - that's it.
2010-06-23 8:27 AM
in reply to: #2938207

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Subject: RE: How to avoid repeating this power disaster (reading involved)
GoFaster - 2010-06-23 6:51 AM

JorgeM - 2010-06-22 3:48 PM
How long was the race?
RPE wise 1 to 10, how hard was your swim?
What was your VI. How many power spikes over your FTP for 5-10 seconds did you have through the race?
How much taper did you do for the race?


Jorge - This was just a short Sprint.  750M, 19km, 5km.  RPE on the swim was somewhere around 7-8 (8 on the swim back in due to a little bit of current).  I'm not sure what VI is (Power Agent software doesn't show it), but my IF was 0.766.  I had a few power spikes on the hills but not many, and these were all at a considerably lower wattage than what I am accustomed to seeing.

Taper for the race was essentially the week leading up to the race.  One 60km ride the previous weekend, 2 OWS swims, 1 run, and one spin on the trainer - that's it.


VI is a variability index and indicates how much fluctuation in your power you had during the ride. lots of short efforts over and under your FTP (like surging up hills for example) can really destroy your abiltiy to put out consistant power during the race, referred to as "burning matches". You only have so many matches to burn. A large difference between your NP and your AP during a ride indicates a large variablity (stoplights, criterium racing, lots of hard uphills followed by coasting, etc).

In triathlon or time trialing, one of hte goals in the bike portion is to "Flatten the hills" by keeping your efforts moderate on the uphills, just barely kissing your FTP and keeping hte power to the pedals over the top and down the backside of the hills up to a point (reaching 25+ mph for example leads to diminishnig returns in trying to spin the pedals.)

When you look at a histogram of your "power bins" during the ride, a great triathlon leg will have your power bins narrowly gathered around your goal wattage, rather than widely or evening distrubuted all along the power spectrum.

Not sure if this has anything to do with your race, but it addresses some of Jorge's questions. If you have the ability to use a PM in training and racing, the points I mentioned here are a huge aspect to smart TT adn Tri-ing with a PM.


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