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2010-06-25 11:54 AM
in reply to: #2943567

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Subject: RE: Therapeutic Use Exemption
tkd.teacher - 2010-06-25 11:23 AM
Experior - 2010-06-25 6:09 AM
gr8gorilla - 2010-06-25 8:43 AM
nc452010 - 2010-06-24 9:41 PM

We're splittin' hairs, Derek....(Doc)....and it's just a twist on words.  My opinion (in calling them PED's) is that no matter who takes them....they're enhancing THAT person's performance.  Whether that constitutes an unfair advantage, or not, is irrelevant (to my statement). 

If the OP can get the governing bodies to accept his situation and issue the TUE, then I applaud him/them.  I wish him luck, sincerely. 



I agree with you here. The idea of competition sports in general is that we take what we are born with and see what we can do with it.

If Test doesn't count as a PED in the OP's case then I can argue that since Brian was born with better genetics than I was that I should be able to use some drugs to bring my levels up to his. Brian has an unfair advantage vs. me because my genetics are not as good as his. Therefore either I should be able to "adjust" my natural genetics or Brian should not be allowed to race.

Now I don't think that the OP should not be allowed to race but I also don't think that if he won he should receive any awards for it.

Because if you start saying well he had a medical condition, then thats like well he won because his VO2 was higher than mine, or he has a higher hemocrit count than me so I was blood doping to level the field, etc.

Those cases are all exactly same, OP's condition and my genetics being less than Lance Armstrongs, so if he can use PED's then so can I. Because I promise you that an elite athlete's levels of just about everything are above "normal."

Get it? 


Sure I get what you're saying, but it is a pretty extreme view of what counts as 'therapeutic use' as opposed to 'performance enhancing use'.  Indeed, you seem to be saying that TUEs should not be allowed at all.  In the end, I think that your view is untenable.  The substances that are on the banned list are not there simply because they enhance performance -- lots of things enhance performance.  They are there (in part) because they have the potential to be used solely (and dangerously) for the purpose of enhancing performance.  That's why TUEs exist -- to handle the cases where they are being used not solely for performance-enhancement.

In any case, nobody (at least I can't imagine anybody) who thinks that there is a legitimate place for TUEs would agree that boosting your XYZ to bring it up to someone else's levels just because that person's levels of XYZ are higher is a therapeutic use.  Nor is there a slippery slope leading to that conclusion.  Therapy has to do with treatment of a disease condition, and nobody thinks that 'not being able to race like so-and-so' is a disease condition.

Sure, there may be gray areas, and we could have a long and interesting discussion about just what counts as disease (and therefore what counts as therapeutic versus performance enhancing use).  I could even point you to some literature on that if you are really interested.


Seriously? Are we now debating the genetics issue over this? Phhht.

If you get right down to it, electrolyte replacement is performance enhancing. Maybe we should ban NUUN, Infinit, etc. If you aren't naturally half camel, tough.

And the bike. Definitely not fair that some people can afford the BMC TTX with SRAM Red, while I'm on an old aluminum P3. Ban everything but 1980's era 8 speed Treks. With cages.

If you really want to take it to extremes, maybe we should figure out an "anti testosterone" drug, to administer to athletes who have naturally HIGH levels of testosterone. After all, that's not fair to us "normal" folks to have to compete with the freaks.

To the "not receiving awards" thing, are you serious? That's just...well, words fail me.

Say you have a testosterone level of 400. His WITH THE REPLACEMENT THERAPY comes to 300. Still less than yours. He beats you for first place in a race. Even though his levels are lower than yours, you still think that because he takes a supplement he should be dq'd?

That's narrow minded and short sighted at the very best, I won't say what I really think of it.

John


I assume you are addressing gr8gorilla's post.  I agree with everything you say here.


2010-06-25 12:04 PM
in reply to: #2942030

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Subject: RE: Therapeutic Use Exemption
I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps you could get in touch with the RD directly.

One thing I do know, I would never give the USAT a "complete medical history". That's really none of their business.
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