General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2010-08-24 10:09 AM

User image

Member
308
100100100
Subject: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
So I routinely use both on my bike rides and was curious to know what people's experiences are in terms of accuaracy with both devices. I like to compare miles for both and notice maybe 1-2 mile difference between the two. I do prefer to upload data from the Garmin 500 to Garmin connect to analyze the data since it is more accuarate with elevation. I know you have to account for the standard error with GPS but I notice the milage for the Garmin 310 XT seems to almost always exactly the same as a program I use for my iphone where the Garmin 500 always seems to add a 1-2 miles. Not sure if this is a big deal, just curious to see if people experience the same thing. I'd figure since they are from the same company they would be very close to each other in terms of accuracy and miles recorded.


2010-08-24 1:33 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Expert
1557
10005002525
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
I've never used the 500 but have the 310 and it has always been pretty consistent with everything else.  I have noticed it being off by up to 0.2mi on a half marathon but that is about it.  And it is usually less than 0.2mi off compared to my cateye cycle computer.  If you are seeing 1-2mi difference then I would think something is wrong.
2010-08-24 1:47 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Master
1572
10005002525
Baltimore
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
Izlude - 2010-08-24 11:09 AM So I routinely use both on my bike rides and was curious to know what people's experiences are in terms of accuaracy with both devices. I like to compare miles for both and notice maybe 1-2 mile difference between the two. I do prefer to upload data from the Garmin 500 to Garmin connect to analyze the data since it is more accuarate with elevation. I know you have to account for the standard error with GPS but I notice the milage for the Garmin 310 XT seems to almost always exactly the same as a program I use for my iphone where the Garmin 500 always seems to add a 1-2 miles. Not sure if this is a big deal, just curious to see if people experience the same thing. I'd figure since they are from the same company they would be very close to each other in terms of accuracy and miles recorded.


Side question - So you use 3 GPSs to record your ride???  garmin, Garmin, iPhone?  Isn't that a little repetative and redundant?

over how many miles are the 1-2 miles difference?  over 100 I probably would attribute it to 1%-2% error.  Over 20 miles, that's a 5%-10% error and I would guess there is something wrong.  Having an iPhone, I would guess that it is the least accurate of the 3.  Did you compare it with mapmyride, ridewithgps or similar sites?

I've got a 310xt too, and just got an Edge 705.  Haven't ridden with both, maybe I'll experiment though.
2010-08-24 1:48 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Champion
5781
5000500100100252525
Northridge, California
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
I've found the 310XT to be very accurate so far (so was my 205).  Can't comment on the 500.

You can't really trust elevation or calorie totals from a Garmin unit, but distance is going to generally be pretty close.  For instance, if a marathon or half marathon comes up more than 26.2 or 13.1, it's far more likely (almost to a certainty) a result of running a longer distance due to not taking the tightest tangents on the turns than error on the part of the device.
2010-08-24 2:02 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Pro
5361
50001001001002525
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
I did a couple rides and longish runs with two, identical 405's on my wrist- set to the same settings, and I gave them both plenty of time to accurately acquire sats.  They weren't nearly as close as I would expect.

They would often get ~150 feet apart from each other.  Running mile splits were sometimes as close as 3 sec, generally 6-9 sec different, and sometimes as much as 12 or more seconds different.  Instantaneous pace- way way off.

And these were two identical units, acquiring the same sattelites and the same time from the same location, moving at the same speed.  In the end- they tended to be within a few percent in overall distance, but it's not like they were within 20ft.  Much larger errors than that.

So- fine for training purposes, but not valid if you want to use them to measure a PR.
2010-08-24 2:09 PM
in reply to: #3061497

User image

Member
97
252525
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
Are you using a GSC-10 sensor with either one?  That will measure actual distance traveled versus horizontal only distance when just using GPS.  If you are, are your rollouts the same?


2010-08-24 2:24 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
I use the 500, but I also use the speed/cadence sensor.  I don't trust gps signals in general, which is why I don't use one to run.  The only reason I got the 500 is because I needed a power computer.
2010-08-24 2:26 PM
in reply to: #3061454

User image

Master
4118
20002000100
Toronto
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
tcovert - 2010-08-24 2:48 PM I've found the 310XT to be very accurate so far (so was my 205).  Can't comment on the 500.

You can't really trust elevation or calorie totals from a Garmin unit, but distance is going to generally be pretty close.  For instance, if a marathon or half marathon comes up more than 26.2 or 13.1, it's far more likely (almost to a certainty) a result of running a longer distance due to not taking the tightest tangents on the turns than error on the part of the device.


And your actual location.  Lots of tall buildings can mess up your signal.  It can be very difficult to get reliable splits in the downtown of major cities.
2010-08-24 2:34 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Member
97
252525
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
GPS is very good over long distances with stable speeds.  That is why it is so great for aircraft.  On a small scale, the solution is too jumpy for slow speed (10's of mph or less instead of 100's) without some form of augmentation.  Your wheel speed and cadence sensor gives you that augmentation that tells the GPS "No he didn't just change direction and go 40mph in a new direction."  I don't have one, but I would like to see how much smoother my data is with a foot pod while running versus GPS alone.

I suspect you are either seeing the effects of elevation change from not using a wheel speed sensor or the lack of elevation change in the non-bike specific devices.  I have an Edge 705 and a Forerunner 405 for running.  I know the 405 does not account for elevation change in its speed computation.  The 705 and 500 have altimeters and likely give you actual road speed (like a car) instead of the horizontal speed only (like the 405 does).  I do not know the methodologies for the 705 or 310XT.
2010-08-24 2:47 PM
in reply to: #3060890


81
252525
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
I have the 500 and since I started using it my cadence has increased dramtically. I can now sprint at 177rpm! The biggest difference I've see with Garmin is the actual software. When I upload my 305 to the training center and connect.garmin the connect site usually is faster and longer than the training center.
2010-08-24 2:50 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Extreme Veteran
767
5001001002525
Rockville, MD
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
Anyone know why Garmin cant(wont) correct the elevation data from the 310xt once the data is uploaded to Garmin Connect?

I understand not being able to perform differantial correction on-the-fly or to recieve WAAS updates, but not being able to correct it once uploaded is pretty lame.

Hopefully Im just ignorant on the matter and Garmin does provide correction to its data, but so far, I havent found it.


2010-08-24 2:54 PM
in reply to: #3061638

User image

Master
1572
10005002525
Baltimore
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
nhunter344 - 2010-08-24 3:50 PMAnyone know why Garmin cant(wont) correct the elevation data from the 310xt once the data is uploaded to Garmin Connect?

I understand not being able to perform differantial correction on-the-fly or to recieve WAAS updates, but not being able to correct it once uploaded is pretty lame.

Hopefully Im just ignorant on the matter and Garmin does provide correction to its data, but so far, I havent found it.


when viewing an activity, on the left side at the bottom under Additional Information.  You can switch between elevation correction enabled and disabled.  This is a relatively new feature in GC, but since they implemented it, I think mine's always defaulted to "enabled" for the 310xt.

Edited by jsiegs 2010-08-24 2:57 PM
2010-08-24 3:05 PM
in reply to: #3061583

User image

Master
1572
10005002525
Baltimore
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
cbire880 - 2010-08-24 3:34 PM GPS is very good over long distances with stable speeds.  That is why it is so great for aircraft.  On a small scale, the solution is too jumpy for slow speed (10's of mph or less instead of 100's) without some form of augmentation.  Your wheel speed and cadence sensor gives you that augmentation that tells the GPS "No he didn't just change direction and go 40mph in a new direction."  I don't have one, but I would like to see how much smoother my data is with a foot pod while running versus GPS alone.

I suspect you are either seeing the effects of elevation change from not using a wheel speed sensor or the lack of elevation change in the non-bike specific devices.  I have an Edge 705 and a Forerunner 405 for running.  I know the 405 does not account for elevation change in its speed computation.  The 705 and 500 have altimeters and likely give you actual road speed (like a car) instead of the horizontal speed only (like the 405 does).  I do not know the methodologies for the 705 or 310XT.


So my max speed isn't really 43,200 miles per hour??? dang.  GPS for me has been very good at distance (when over a mile or so), average speeds, steady state speeds.  While accelerating, it tends to lag a bit due to (I assume) an algorithm which averages the data to smooth it and reduce the occurance of things like 43,200mph speeds.  There are errors in GPS no doubt, but over a little time and distance, the random errors will cancel each other out and lead to more accurate data.
2010-08-24 3:06 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Extreme Veteran
767
5001001002525
Rockville, MD
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
I just checked that out and it is currently enabled for me. Wierd though. Comparing a route with mapmyride, the elevation min/max are pretty similar, but the elevation gain/loss on the Garmin is more than twice of what mapmyride is showing.
2010-08-24 9:31 PM
in reply to: #3060890

User image

Member
266
1001002525
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
My testing between multiple units on a large variety of rides shows them typically within a few tenths of a mile - even for rides well over 50 miles.

If you're seeing large disparities (and you are), do a soft reset.  A soft reset will reset the satellite cache and tell it to pickup satellites.  Typically when you get weird non-aligning distances it's trying to use a satellite that it can't get a highly accurate measurement on.  By doing a soft reset it forgets this satellite.

As far as elevation goes..well, it's a really long story.
2010-08-25 6:44 AM
in reply to: #3061681

User image

Member
97
252525
Subject: RE: Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT
jsiegs - 2010-08-24 4:05 PM
cbire880 - 2010-08-24 3:34 PM GPS is very good over long distances with stable speeds.  That is why it is so great for aircraft.  On a small scale, the solution is too jumpy for slow speed (10's of mph or less instead of 100's) without some form of augmentation.  Your wheel speed and cadence sensor gives you that augmentation that tells the GPS "No he didn't just change direction and go 40mph in a new direction."  I don't have one, but I would like to see how much smoother my data is with a foot pod while running versus GPS alone.

I suspect you are either seeing the effects of elevation change from not using a wheel speed sensor or the lack of elevation change in the non-bike specific devices.  I have an Edge 705 and a Forerunner 405 for running.  I know the 405 does not account for elevation change in its speed computation.  The 705 and 500 have altimeters and likely give you actual road speed (like a car) instead of the horizontal speed only (like the 405 does).  I do not know the methodologies for the 705 or 310XT.


So my max speed isn't really 43,200 miles per hour??? dang.  GPS for me has been very good at distance (when over a mile or so), average speeds, steady state speeds.  While accelerating, it tends to lag a bit due to (I assume) an algorithm which averages the data to smooth it and reduce the occurance of things like 43,200mph speeds.  There are errors in GPS no doubt, but over a little time and distance, the random errors will cancel each other out and lead to more accurate data.


Agreed.  I suspect the Garmin devices just aren't that smart.  There is a fine line between smoothing to eliminate erroneous data and actually changing the character of the data.  I think the bike centric devices probably apply more smoothing due to the lack of sudden changes in direction while on a bike.  A dramatic change in direction happens much more often when on foot therefore I'd believe you want less "smoothing."

When dealing with velocity though, the random errors can be a significant source of uncertainty depending on how large your window is for computing the derivative.  If you take lots of instantaneous velocities versus a longer average, you will see it degrade the data.  Can you tell I like GPS? 


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Accuracy of the Garmin 500 and Garmin 310XT Rss Feed