General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete? Rss Feed  
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2010-11-02 5:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
thndrcloud - 2010-11-02 10:25 AM My thirteen year old daughter is friends with a couple kids in her running club who do half and full marathons.  It makes me nervous.  Kids, in general, aren't equipped to handle that kind of stress.  They We don't (know) what theywe're capable of, nor do they we understand our their limitations.  They We don't have the ability to gauge what's happening in our their bodies and make good decisions based on our their current condition as well as the conditions around them us.  Combine that with a sense of invincibility and you can have some really dangerous situations on those long courses where you can go miles without seeing another racer, volunteer or official.

OP, you're 16 right now and you've done some serious events which tells me you're not a typical high school kid.  You know how to work hard and are determined enough to go the distance.  That's great.  It makes me nervous for you anyway.  If you were my kid the only way I'd let you do it would be if you did your training under the supervision of an experienced coach and with a specific race plan focused on finishing more than competing.

You're not my kid though and your parents know you and have a much better idea of what you're capable of than I do.  If they support you doing this it makes sense to call the RD and see if they're willing to budge for you.  Regardless of which event you end up doing I hope you keep us updated on your progress.


As long as we're talking generalizations, I fixed that for you. 

I can dig up a few race reports from around here where even "mature" athletes got themselves trouble in a race.  In my own Ironman experience, I can't say my judgement was good, but that I got lucky with the result.  I have a few people here, whom I respect a lot, end up in an ambulance, the ER, etc. because they pushed on in spite of the warning signs their body was giving them. Unfortunately, it's easy to do when you're in the middle of the day of your most important race where every emotion is amplified and distorted.  It doesn't even have to be a race...look at the threads and blogs and various training injuries and realize the authors are otherwise mature and responsible adults. 

As to the OP.  My guess is the registration process should kick you out if you don't meet the criteria.  I'd also guess that the conversation with the RD will be pretty short.  While 18 is an arbitrary number, it has to be somewhere. 


2010-11-02 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
McFuzz - 2010-11-02 5:26 PM
thndrcloud - 2010-11-02 10:25 AM My thirteen year old daughter is friends with a couple kids in her running club who do half and full marathons.  It makes me nervous.  Kids, in general, aren't equipped to handle that kind of stress.  They We don't (know) what theywe're capable of, nor do they we understand our their limitations.  They We don't have the ability to gauge what's happening in our their bodies and make good decisions based on our their current condition as well as the conditions around them us.  Combine that with a sense of invincibility and you can have some really dangerous situations on those long courses where you can go miles without seeing another racer, volunteer or official.

OP, you're 16 right now and you've done some serious events which tells me you're not a typical high school kid.  You know how to work hard and are determined enough to go the distance.  That's great.  It makes me nervous for you anyway.  If you were my kid the only way I'd let you do it would be if you did your training under the supervision of an experienced coach and with a specific race plan focused on finishing more than competing.

You're not my kid though and your parents know you and have a much better idea of what you're capable of than I do.  If they support you doing this it makes sense to call the RD and see if they're willing to budge for you.  Regardless of which event you end up doing I hope you keep us updated on your progress.


As long as we're talking generalizations, I fixed that for you. 

I can dig up a few race reports from around here where even "mature" athletes got themselves trouble in a race.  In my own Ironman experience, I can't say my judgement was good, but that I got lucky with the result.  I have a few people here, whom I respect a lot, end up in an ambulance, the ER, etc. because they pushed on in spite of the warning signs their body was giving them. Unfortunately, it's easy to do when you're in the middle of the day of your most important race where every emotion is amplified and distorted.  It doesn't even have to be a race...look at the threads and blogs and various training injuries and realize the authors are otherwise mature and responsible adults. 

As to the OP.  My guess is the registration process should kick you out if you don't meet the criteria.  I'd also guess that the conversation with the RD will be pretty short.  While 18 is an arbitrary number, it has to be somewhere. 


I don't disagree that we're all guilty of recklessness to some degree but I do think that with age comes wisdom.  It may still not be enough but our chances are probably better with a little more life experience. 
2010-11-02 5:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Don't let me be only one thinking it, but what is stopping you from just entering a birthdate one week earlier?

I'm pretty sure that active doesn't double check it.  And as far as USAT goes, it doesn't have your birthdate on the USAT card that you have to show at the door for packet pickup, just your USAT age in 2011.  And you do have to show some ID, but they never says it has to be a driver license.  So, go get a student ID that doesn't have a birthdate on it and you're good to go.

Quibble all you want, but there's the letter of the rule and the spirit of the law.  It's borderline idiotic to think that somebody is capable/safe to complete ironman one week later. I think probably most ethicists would agree that it is ok to fib in this situation.

Or you could get caught and banned from all WTC in the future...
2010-11-02 6:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Why is it so hard to just follow the rules? Are they so inconvenient, really?
2010-11-02 6:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Considering the backlash directed at WTC the past few weeks, I'm amazed there isn't a bunch of people saying it will be ok since they only want your money...

As someone who was allowed to join the military at age 17, I did not gain incredible maturity at age 18 that gave me insight on my decision making process.  BUT.. there is an age cutoff for many things where you are considered able to think on your own accord. for a legal sense.

Personally I'm divided.. if it was me I'd call the RD and see if they would let me in.

However  from the outside I can see a companies point of view saying that if you are under the required age limit then... then you are under the age limit.  
2010-11-02 6:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
In terms of racing age, you'd be '18' for that calendar year anyway, as it's age as of December 31.


2010-11-02 6:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
There seems to be a number of posts above that question the ability or the suitability for a young body to perform that level of endurance.  As if it were somehow good for a 40 year old and bad for an 18 year old.

Show me the data that says endurance athletics is somehow more harmful to an 18 year old than a 50 year old?  Granted, for most of us, it does take years to develop this level of endurance- but maybe that's because we didn't start trying until we were in our 40's.

So, if the OP has been training and building up his endurance, and is going to work a training plan- hey, he's got a full year- he'll probably kick at IMAZ.

that said- the 18 year old limit is probably about liability and the ability to sign any contract.  I'll bet he can get around it with the RD if a parent is willing to co-sign the waiver and the registration on his behalf.

Good luck.  Keep us posted.  Treat the IM with respect.  Then slay the hell out of it next year.

2010-11-02 7:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
morey000 - 2010-11-02 8:53 PM

There seems to be a number of posts above that question the ability or the suitability for a young body to perform that level of endurance.  As if it were somehow good for a 40 year old and bad for an 18 year old.


Not sure if you were refering to my post or not but my hesitation to recommend or encourage an 18 year old to do an IM has nothing to do with the ability to do it, but rather the wisdom in doing it.

Show me the data that says endurance athletics is somehow more harmful to an 18 year old than a 50 year old?  Granted, for most of us, it does take years to develop this level of endurance- but maybe that's because we didn't start trying until we were in our 40's.


I don't have a study, but look at the career arc of elite endurance athletes and you will see that the focus early in their career is on shorter endurance events and then they progress to longer events.  Granted this is purely anecdotal, but IMO provides support to start with shorter events (for more than a year or two) before tackling long or ultra distance events.

So, if the OP has been training and building up his endurance, and is going to work a training plan- hey, he's got a full year- he'll probably kick at IMAZ.


While you may be right, I would guess that he could perform even better in 2015 after a few more years of short course, then a HIM or two and eventually an IM.

that said- the 18 year old limit is probably about liability and the ability to sign any contract.  I'll bet he can get around it with the RD if a parent is willing to co-sign the waiver and the registration on his behalf.


Doubtful - if this were possible then there would be no reason for youth who are trying to be the youngest IM finisher to seek out non-WTC events.

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2010-11-02 7:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
An article from May, 2008 -

http://coachjoeenglish.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/question-how-old-do-you-have-to-be-to-enter-an-ironman/

As mentioned previously, though, I would contact the governing body for a clear response.
2010-11-02 8:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?

When I raced at IMKY I had to sign a waiver form.  At the bottom of the form it had a space for legal guardian to sign...  I was wondering why this would be there if you have to be 18 to race??

I would assume it is because they make exceptions.

Also, they did not even ask to see any form of ID when I raced.

I am not saying you should break the rules,  I believe there are rules for a reason.

Call the RD, if they let you race go for it.  I don't think that just because you are 18 you should not do an endurance event...

2010-11-02 8:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
natethomas2000 - 2010-11-02 5:33 PM In terms of racing age, you'd be '18' for that calendar year anyway, as it's age as of December 31.


This was my first thought reading this as well.

As far as they are concerned (as much as I've been told)  the calendar year is what matters not the exact birthdate...  


2010-11-03 6:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
kproudfoot - 2010-11-02 10:08 PM

When I raced at IMKY I had to sign a waiver form.  At the bottom of the form it had a space for legal guardian to sign...  I was wondering why this would be there if you have to be 18 to race??

I would assume it is because they make exceptions.

Or because the waiver is simply the USAT boilerplate that is used for events of all distances.

Call the RD, if they let you race go for it.  I don't think that just because you are 18 you should not do an endurance event.


Nobody is saying the OP should not do an endurance event; rather suggesting that an ultra endurance event may not be the best option.

Shane

2010-11-03 7:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Contradoublebassman - 2010-11-02 8:13 PM
natethomas2000 - 2010-11-02 5:33 PM In terms of racing age, you'd be '18' for that calendar year anyway, as it's age as of December 31.


This was my first thought reading this as well.

As far as they are concerned (as much as I've been told)  the calendar year is what matters not the exact birthdate...  


I am curious about this as well.  When you register on active you put in your birth date and it actually assigns an age (which I hate before the beginning of May, but don;t have such an issue with after.

Is this what would alert an RD?

I know a coach that trains a Regional Juniors team of very fast racers.  Nobody under 12 races a full race, nobody under 17 races anything more than a sprint.  17 year olds can race an Oly if they have parental consent, coaches consent and RD's approval. 

Yes, they are all very good and healthy racers.  Their top female was second overall AG at Hy-Vee Oly in Des Moines (at 17) in 2009 and 7th in the Junior World Championships this year. 
2010-11-03 12:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Every IM race that I have done had people checking drivers licenses for identification and age purposes when we went in for our race packet pickup.
2010-11-03 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Rainydaytri - 2010-11-01 12:28 AM Im looking at doing ironman AZ 2011 (the exact date should come out within a few weeks). I know Ironman has a minimum age requirement of 18 years, but for the 2011 AZ race, the date would only be a week, if not mere days from my 18th birthday.(im assuming it stays around the 20-24 of nov.) I know I have other options to do (silverman mainly) but I would really like to do an ironman branded event. I heard that rules can slightly vary with who the course director is, so that is both a bit promising and disconcerting. 

The main question is simply this: Will ironman AZ, 2011, not allow me to compete because I would be a week to young? 

 Just for fun, would you let me compete? I have done marathons, and some sprint and oly distances, incase you wanted some bio info.

Thanks for your assistance, and opinion. 


If you're looking for adventure, why not sign up for the Armed Forces?   Perfectly legal with parental consent at 17, and certainly less dangerous than hours and hours of arduous toil in the Arizona sun.

On another note:    It's generally accepted that you're going to be putting in a good 20 hours a week of training for an IM.   There's high-school teams putting in at LEAST that much training every summer for various sports.     

If the kid were 12, it'd be a different story.   one week from 18?   drive on, brother.
2010-11-03 3:25 PM
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jdwright56 - 2010-11-03 2:21 AM
I am curious about this as well.  When you register on active you put in your birth date and it actually assigns an age (which I hate before the beginning of May, but don;t have such an issue with after.

 


Right now, I'm 29 years old, and am 29 for all of 2010 as far as the USAT is concerned. 

When I signed up for a 70.3 in June of 2011, I entered my birth date and and registered.  On the confirmation page that shows everyone who is signed up...it still shows that I'm 29.  I will indeed be 29 on race day (I'll turn 30 five days after the race)...but as far as the USAT is concerned...I'll be 30 for the entire year of 2011.


2010-11-03 3:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
that said- the 18 year old limit is probably about liability and the ability to sign any contract.

I believe this is correct.  As a minor (under 18yrs), you legally can't enter into a contract.  So, you can't even legally sign their waiver.

Can your parents assume responsibility for your actions on race day?  Good question.  I'm guessing the WTC or the RD of that race are gonna have to answer that one for you.

While I commend your sense of adventure, I would advise my 18yr old (and I have one) to cool his jets on an endurance event of this magnitude.  My saying that implies in no way that I don't think you can complete or even compete at this distance.  Irrelevant.  If you can truly tell me that you would have FUN devoting the amount of time it will take you to get ready for this race.....I would weigh that (as your parent) against your maturity level............and either sign the waiver....or I wouldn't.  I don't know you.

If you choose to go this route, I wish you success.  At face value, I'm impressed.
2010-11-03 4:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
I say go for it. When I was 18 I had already knocked out 3 marathons, a half iron, and a few century's. While mentally I am now totally messed up beyond all repair, physically I'm doing just fine. At 18, you'll recover faster than the rest of us, so if you train properly then I say good luck.

I might also add that at age 12 Michael Phelps was swimming over 100,000 yards per week and at age 13 Lance Armstrong was riding north of 300 miles per week. No Deposit, No Return.
2010-11-03 6:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
Thanks for the comments everyone, they are well appreciated. 

Just to wrap things up, the answer is......... i can't.
After sending my first email he quickly responded by saying he would find out and tell me asap. The next day (today), he said that:

I just got word back from my director of operations that we strictly adhere to the 18-year old threshold for participation.

I gather we’ve had cases like yours before but they don’t bend regardless of parental/guardian approval.

Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news.  It seems like torture at your age but, trust me, you have many Ironman opportunities in front of you.

All the best,

Huddle"

So there you have it. It seems that even with a parent signing a liability waver, I still would not have been able to compete.

Just to let you know about me, it means that ill be doing the Silverman 2011 (I have a new forum question about it if you could help:  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=232715&posts=1#M3193926 ) And then that 2012 summer ill do Cour or St. George. All is not lost.

Safe training and racing everyone.
2010-11-03 7:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Will Ironman (WTC) allow me to compete?
tjfry - 2010-11-03 4:07 PM

I say go for it. When I was 18 I had already knocked out 3 marathons, a half iron, and a few century's. While mentally I am now totally messed up beyond all repair, physically I'm doing just fine. At 18, you'll recover faster than the rest of us, so if you train properly then I say good luck.

I might also add that at age 12 Michael Phelps was swimming over 100,000 yards per week and at age 13 Lance Armstrong was riding north of 300 miles per week. No Deposit, No Return.


yep. I'm 20, started mathoning at 16, Ironman at 18 ( and 20th birthday), and am now doing ultras. That being said... I snuck in a few marathons, but had to lie online about my age. It wouldn't even let me sign up without putting that I am 18. The Ironman website works the same. Good luck to you!
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