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2011-05-31 6:19 PM

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Subject: swim vid critique

I think my stroke rate is one of my most limiting problems. I just cant seem to be able to speed it up without a feeling of flailing. Also it looks like I am riding really low in the water? Any feedback is much appreciated Smile. Here is a vid link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F4kHmFHqiU

Edited by kajinsky 2011-05-31 6:22 PM


2011-05-31 6:27 PM
in reply to: #3526357

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique

You're starting your pull with your arm almost a foot underwater.  Finish your recovery closer to the surface and start the pull up there, and then get that elbow up right away on the pull.  When your left arm finishes recovery you seem to bob down under the water a bit completely too.  No idea what's causing that, but it is partly what gives you the look of riding really low in the water.  Hips could be higher, but I've seen worse.

Your cadence seems fine.  I don't really notice my cadence going up when I swim faster, I just pull harder.  At least that how it seems in my head.

2011-06-01 8:27 AM
in reply to: #3526357

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique
kajinsky - 2011-05-31 7:19 PM

I think my stroke rate is one of my most limiting problems. I just cant seem to be able to speed it up without a feeling of flailing. Also it looks like I am riding really low in the water? Any feedback is much appreciated Smile. Here is a vid link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F4kHmFHqiU

Your limiting factor is not your stroke rate.  It's your form during breathing.  Can you make another video?  I am looking for one without you breathing at all.  Push off the wall and have someone video your stroke for as long as you can go...maybe 10-15 strokes without breathing at all.  The reason I am saying this is because you seem to be using your stroke to pull your head up to the surface to breathe.  You turn your head up slightly, take a breath and come back down in the water...sinking yourself after every breath.  You need to start rotating about the center of your body.  During your recovery, you need higher elbows.  You're "snaking" through the water as well.  The new video needs to be from the side and head on as well....not a little bit to the side...right in front of you.  I'm almost positive I can explain it better with the new video.



Edited by jgerbodegrant 2011-06-01 8:36 AM
2011-06-01 12:07 PM
in reply to: #3526357

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique
Thanks for the feedback guys, will try to get another vid with the requested angle. I wonder if starting the catch closer to the surface of the water will maybe bring me up in the water a little more. Will try tonight. Certainly feels a little less tense to stretch that arm out angling slightly down instead of right next to my head and close to water surface. Flexibility problem it seems. As far as the head position, a "coach" kept saying to me "get your head down!" so many times that it seemed I wasnt doing it right until my head was completely submerged and then some. They may have still been saying it but I couldnt hear them anymore because my head was completely submerged. Made the move for air difficult.
2011-06-01 12:31 PM
in reply to: #3526357

Subject: ...
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Edited by trotpntbll 2011-06-01 12:34 PM
2011-06-01 1:22 PM
in reply to: #3527112

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique
jgerbodegrant - 2011-06-01 9:27 AM
kajinsky - 2011-05-31 7:19 PM

I think my stroke rate is one of my most limiting problems. I just cant seem to be able to speed it up without a feeling of flailing. Also it looks like I am riding really low in the water? Any feedback is much appreciated Smile. Here is a vid link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F4kHmFHqiU

... you seem to be using your stroke to pull your head up to the surface to breathe.  You turn your head up slightly, take a breath and come back down in the water...sinking yourself after every breath.... 

This was exactly my (very amateur, untrained) impression.  OP appears to be sort of 'bobbing up and down' -- up to take a breathe, and down because, well, gravity does what gravity does.



2011-06-01 5:17 PM
in reply to: #3526357

Elite
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Subject: RE: swim vid critique

As others have pointed out, you have a very straight pull, and you look up which will also serve to sink your hips and legs.

The thing that struck me though, was that at the end of the video, it is very apparent that you kick from the knees, and that your kick is disconnected from your stroke, in that it's not driving your breathing/rotation.

John

2011-06-02 9:47 AM
in reply to: #3526357

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique
I missed masters swim this morning so I am bummed that I couldnt try suggested mods but will try to get there after work. Just sitting here thinking though, if you stretch your arm out farther, as they say to do, but your angle is slightly down from your body as it appears my arm angle is, it seems like in a matter of physics, it will only bring your body lower into the water when you pull. Stretch farther and the angle and depth of hand becomes even greater. That and by the time you crank your elbow up from that angle, your hand and forearm is already past your head instead of in front. I think the arm right next to your ear ensures the best straight line distance, length of pull and may help ride higher in the water. At least it seems like that makes the most sense as I sit here in my cubicle and move my arm around in diff positions and ppl look at me strangely. It does hurt my neck/shoulder to do that with my right arm though, hopefully that will go away.
2011-06-02 11:03 AM
in reply to: #3526357

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique
If I had to guess, I would say you were an engineer, because we tend to complicate the hell out of things.  I do agree with what you are doing though.  If you can break down the stroke as to what is happening and why, you win.  I'm not sure if you've checked out swimsmooth.com yet, but it's helped me a bunch just to watch that guy swim over and over and over and over.
2011-06-02 1:32 PM
in reply to: #3526357

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Subject: RE: swim vid critique

Someone earlier said "keep your elbows high" - I had a decent way of visualizing this.

Once you've got your hand in the water and elbow straightened out, imagine you're reaching over a barrel tipped over in front of you.  That's what keeping your elbow high feels like.

Slow motion of Ian Thorpe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjbQp5fjBO0  Notice how his elbow stays in contact with the surface until it nearly gets to his head.

I wonder if you could tape something buoyant to your elbow.  I've never heard of anyone doing that as a drill, but it could remind you to keep it high.

 

Also, your kick looks inefficient.  I don't know how to describe what to do about it, as my roommate had a similar problem last summer and we weren't able to fix it.



Edited by AHare 2011-06-02 1:53 PM
2011-06-02 11:15 PM
in reply to: #3526357

Subject: RE: swim vid critique
I would say keep your head down and your butt up would be the main things to work on.  If you do that you will be able to kick less and and still maintain balance thus saving energy you are spending now for the same thing. Try to lay flat on the water with you head down, your butt up and your legs at the top of the surface as well, not swimming or moving forward just floating like this.

Good luck!!


edited to fix the oops I offended the word filter.  

Edited by crusevegas 2011-06-02 11:16 PM


2011-06-04 12:54 PM
in reply to: #3526357

Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: swim vid critique

You are a brave soul for putting your vid out there and super kudos for wanting to put in the hard work to improve.

- I'd echo much of what was said above. Further thoughts or repetitions ...

- You hardly rotate at all. Learning and practicing proper rotation will go a long way toward improving every aspect of your stroke, including not doing head/neck aerobics in order to breathe or artificially "keep" your legs up.

- x2 on the kick ... I don't think I've ever seen a 3-beat kick. (LOL, actually, I've seen it all, and to be honest you're doing pretty well, and if you take what we're saying to heart and do some more research and keep up masters and a bajillion more meters ... you're going to be awesome).

- Might pull the fingers in from the polar-bear-claw shape your hand is in during the pull and make it more of a flat paddle. The wrist only should drop in the very first part of pull; the main thrust of the pull should be with your wrist in line with your forearm, creating one giant paddle.

- As your stroke balances out, you're more likely to swim in a straight line. No need to work on that; it's just an indicator that the work you're doing on your form is panning out as it should.

swimsmooth.com is good, TI stuff is good, and reading this until you can recite it is good:

Bigfuzzydoug's Ten Points to Swimming

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