General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back Rss Feed  
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2011-08-27 1:44 PM

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Subject: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

So I had my second tri today a significantly harder course than my last tri but i think I did well. My swim was improved and I my bike was about the same maybe a little better. The problem came after t2, when I started to run immediately my left calf started to knot and cramp to the point I could not full stride. Now I had a similar pain last tri but it was not nearly as bad. This time I had to walk twice on the course just to keep going and ended up taking 30min to run 5k.

My question is what is going on and how can I fix it. Do I need to do more bricks of biking followed by running or do I just need to keep increasing the engine and eventually it will be better, or is it a form issue. Both tris were sprint courses and  this morning I tried upping my cadence towards the end of the ride to try losening it up but same result.

Please help this does not happen at all on training runs and I have never till today had to walk during a 5k so something is not right. Thanks for taking the time to read my complaing

P.S. Sorry my logs aren't up I use runkeeper and don't take the time to post here too. For reference I do two runs a week usually one 5k about 8min mi pace and one interval/hill run.



2011-08-27 1:56 PM
in reply to: #3662018

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

The problem is that you outran your fitness (and probably outran your bike fitness, too).

Two short runs a week prepares you to finish a triathlon, but not really run the run.

The cramps can be avoided by increasing your cycling and your running (and with running not that much, I wouldn't add an intervals/hills until you're doing several runs a week) ... and/or until you do, in races, slowing down on the bike. And possibly the run.

2011-08-27 3:41 PM
in reply to: #3662036

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
Thanks TriAya guess I need to get running more often. I just didn't think it was that simple since it was only affecting one leg but I suppose it is the weaker of the two. Thanks again any other thoughts or pointers are welcome.
2011-08-27 3:48 PM
in reply to: #3662018


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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
I used to have the same problem, and believe it or not the solution was not fitness. I ride clipless pedels and my cleats were to far forward. I moved them all the way back and have not had a problem since. I don't know if you are riding clipless, but if you are try moving your cleats back.
2011-08-27 4:03 PM
in reply to: #3662135

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Regular
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New Cumberland, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
I do use clipless maybe I will try doing a brick with them moved back and see what happens.
2011-08-27 4:26 PM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

   I have done Two OLY tris and One sprint so far since I have gotten into the sport.  My first OLY, I did an amazing bike and then ran about 10-15 minutes over my normal run time because I cramped up so bad.  Then I learned to take it easier on the bike and hydrate/eat while I am on the bike and that helped a lot!  I just recently did a hsort sprint and figured I could go fairly hard on the bike with only a 5K to follow... but I immediately began cramping on the run.  I stopped once to walk and stretch, but then kept going with a major "heel to toe" strike to loosen up my claves.  After the first mile, I felt fine and finished the 5K just over 24 minutes. 

   Like others have already said, you really need to work on your biking and then take it easy during the bike portion.  The stronger biker you are, the better your legs will feel coming off the bike.  Nothing is more frustrating than having energy and motivation but not being able to run because your legs are doing their own thing.  Good luck on your next tri!



2011-08-27 6:47 PM
in reply to: #3662178

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
YEa i think it may have to do more with me saving some for the run rather than needing to increase strength in the bike of course that accomplishes the same goal. But right now I am placing middle of the pack to front of the pack on the bike bottom of the pack in the swim and middle of the pack to bottom of the pack in the run. In the end I shouldn't complain to much they were my first two tris and I had done nothing athletically before April of this year and both tris I finished 50/91 and 150/244 so just trying to improve. Thanks for the advice 
2011-08-27 7:40 PM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

Yes, it's mostly going too hard for current fitness.  If it's happening immediately you likely are going too hard on the bike.  The cleat position response is actually fitness related because it means the calf isn't strong enough to handle that effort with the cleat forward.  It's just a leverage thing.  Farther forward needs more force.  Still make sure the pressure is being applied to the right place on your foot.  Get that right and build your fitness around it.

If you're only running twice a week, still get more runs in as that won't get you too far in the long haul.  Bricks will still help you even though they may not fix what you were asking about.  They're more for transitioning the muscles from biking to running, improving that time, as opposed overall fitness.  Though they do help there as well.

2011-08-27 10:52 PM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
There is no such thing as a good bike followed by a bad run. Back off on the bike a little in your next race, and it'll be better.
2011-08-27 10:56 PM
in reply to: #3662442

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

Maybe you were just having a bad race? Maybe you were off a bit on your hydration?

I wouldnt immediately assume it is your fitness level. I had nasty calf cramps on a sprint I was using as a training race before my first HIM (iirc about 3 weeks prior). No problems on the HIM and i did about 2mph average faster on the bike for the hIM.

2011-08-27 11:41 PM
in reply to: #3662446

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
Grungir - 2011-08-28 12:56 PM

Maybe you were just having a bad race? Maybe you were off a bit on your hydration?

I wouldnt immediately assume it is your fitness level. I had nasty calf cramps on a sprint I was using as a training race before my first HIM (iirc about 3 weeks prior). No problems on the HIM and i did about 2mph average faster on the bike for the hIM.

True, but when you look at his logs, it becomes apparent that's the most likely issue. I guarantee you were doing at least 5x more training for your HIM than he was for his sprints.

#1 reason for cramps is outpacing one's fitness level (doesn't mean one is unfit; it means one went too fast for it). If that's ruled out, then you look for other possibilities, as was true in your case.



2011-08-28 12:15 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
I found that once my bike and run fitness improved, I didn't have cramps on the run.

AND...

I also discovered not to stop and stretch when I felt the first twinges of a cramp. I focus on relaxing my legs and having good running form and just run through it. Really scary the first time but I've found it goes away if I run through it but won't every go away if I stop.
2011-08-28 3:28 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
I got those my first couple of sprints. Yeah, you're outrunning your fitness.

For your next race pick up an OLY training plan and follow that. It'll help a lot.

2011-08-28 6:17 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
Far from an expert here, but did have the same problem for my first three sprints this year.  For me, it was an issue of hydration.  Went to a bottle of water during the night, a bottle of gatorade in the AM, and another on bike + a bottle of water.  Sounds like a ton, but it worked / I ran my fastest ever in the 5K w/o any real change in the fitness level.   YMMV.
2011-08-28 6:21 AM
in reply to: #3662531

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

croixfan - 2011-08-28 6:17 AM Far from an expert here, but did have the same problem for my first three sprints this year.  For me, it was an issue of hydration.  Went to a bottle of water during the night, a bottle of gatorade in the AM, and another on bike + a bottle of water.  Sounds like a ton, but it worked / I ran my fastest ever in the 5K w/o any real change in the fitness level.   YMMV.

Unless you went into the race nearly dehydrated already, it's highly unlikely that hydration would be an issue on a sprint. More likely is that you went into this race better trained and paced it better than your first three sprints.

2011-08-28 7:26 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
I would check cleat position.... they may be too far forward... Laughing


2011-08-28 8:17 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back
Wow thanks everyone for the advice I really appreciate all the help. Looks like a rookie mistake and more training is needed. Any suggestions, should I be doing more lsd runs, what should I be doing on the bike just riding more. Someone mentioned switching to an olympic training program should I go that route. Thanks again for taking the time to comment.
2011-08-28 8:35 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

It would help if we know what you have been doing, but your logs here are empty.

Remember that there are two parts to this: proper training and proper pacing. If you showed up properly trained for a 10K running race, but ran the first half at your 5k race pace, you would have difficulties, maybe even some cramping, and probably have to do some walking in the second half of the 10K. Similarly, if you complete the bike at a pace at which your training allows you to do just that, your run is going to suffer.

2011-08-28 9:26 AM
in reply to: #3662018

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Subject: RE: 2nd tri and same problem keeps coming back

Here is the majority of the logs for the past two months. Before than I was less diligent in my logs. Ignore the lack of swim workouts if I do a pool workout I usually don't log it. Hope this helps you helping me thanks in advance.

http://runkeeper.com/user/silverarrow/activity

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