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Swimming - sheesh!
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 2011-10-28 11:01 AM |
Veteran  344  |  Subject: Swimming - sheesh!All, As I watched the lady next to me take nice leisurely strokes to the tune of 1:40 100m intervals, something is definitely missing in my stroke efficiency. Thanks in advance, twomarks ===== More background: Can swim fairly well and am comfortable in the water, but just started what would be considered training for improvement 15 weeks ago with my first tri two weeks ago. |
| 2011-10-28 11:04 AM in reply to: #3742329 |
| Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! Out of all the things we do swimming is the one area where it pays off immediately and very well to get a coach when you're starting out or when you want to really increase technique. Swimming is almost entirely technique. Get a coach one on one for a few sessions and join a Master's program (which also probably has coaches that will help you) |
| 2011-10-28 11:08 AM in reply to: #3742329 |
 Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! As my boyfriend (former D1 swimmer) says... it's all about what happens underneath the water. A coach will definitely help - go for it! |
| 2011-10-28 11:09 AM in reply to: #3742329 |
Pro 6520   Bellingham, WA | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! Those who do it very well often make it look easy but it usually takes a lot to get to that point. Yes, coaching is the greatest return on investment along with time in the pool. |
| 2011-10-28 1:03 PM in reply to: #3742329 |
| Veteran 459 Indiana | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! I get a lot out of coached swimming workouts. Started out with private lessons. Now doing group swims with the triathlon group at my Y. The difference between me just thrashing water on my own, and how much more rapidly I improve when I am getting feedback from a pro, is such that I hardly ever swim without coaching any more. |
| 2011-10-28 1:43 PM in reply to: #3742329 |
New user 47 Long Island | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! Make sure you are keeping a steady flutter kick and roll your shoulders into each stroke. |
| 2011-10-28 2:06 PM in reply to: #3742329 |
Regular 217 St. Joseph, MI | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! I would respectfully disagree with the steady flutter kick. Over kicking is why a lot of swimmers struggle with form. The kick should almost be an afterthought, with a single kick or two (from the hips, not knees) per stroke. IMO kicking is less for propulsion and more for balance and to assist with body roll. Good luck in the water! |
| 2011-10-28 9:52 PM in reply to: #3742329 |
Veteran 566 Boise, ID | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! Maybe you could ask that swimmer if she was comfortable taking a look at your stroke.... |
| 2011-10-29 12:29 AM in reply to: #3742687 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! jgs733 - 2011-10-28 12:06 PM I would respectfully disagree with the steady flutter kick. Over kicking is why a lot of swimmers struggle with form. The kick should almost be an afterthought, with a single kick or two (from the hips, not knees) per stroke. IMO kicking is less for propulsion and more for balance and to assist with body roll. ^^ This...especially for inexperienced swimmers. A study I've seen pegged the contribution to propulsion from kicking for elite swimmers at only 10%. The conclusion was that a minimal (but properly executed) kick is better than a bad flutter kick. Over the last four years, I've watched an awful lot of triathletes on my wife's company tri team without swimming experience spend lap after lap at team workouts kicking their hips gradually down toward the bottom of the pool. |
| 2011-10-29 7:03 AM in reply to: #3743240 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! tcovert - 2011-10-29 12:29 AM Agree. You have to have an effective kick, but once you do I think minimal kicking works great for what we do. http://badig.com/2009/06/the-two-beat-kick/jgs733 - 2011-10-28 12:06 PM I would respectfully disagree with the steady flutter kick. Over kicking is why a lot of swimmers struggle with form. The kick should almost be an afterthought, with a single kick or two (from the hips, not knees) per stroke. IMO kicking is less for propulsion and more for balance and to assist with body roll. ^^ This...especially for inexperienced swimmers. A study I've seen pegged the contribution to propulsion from kicking for elite swimmers at only 10%. The conclusion was that a minimal (but properly executed) kick is better than a bad flutter kick. Over the last four years, I've watched an awful lot of triathletes on my wife's company tri team without swimming experience spend lap after lap at team workouts kicking their hips gradually down toward the bottom of the pool. |
| 2011-10-29 8:24 AM in reply to: #3742329 |
Extreme Veteran 845 Springfield, OH | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! twomarks - 2011-10-28 12:01 PM. I take about 20 or so strokes per 100 (21 if no flip turn) and I try to just glide along, but when I try to go faster - thrashing ensues. You either have six foot long arms or are gliding for 5 seconds after each stroke. 20 per 100 is way too low for anyone. |
| 2011-10-29 8:44 AM in reply to: #3743361 |
Veteran 138 | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! I was wondering if someone would address this. I know I have a ridiculously high stroke count but I couldn't see how 20/100 is even possible. |
| 2011-10-29 9:00 AM in reply to: #3743377 |
Expert 1194 | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! christiekate - 2011-10-29 9:44 AM Im guessing they meant 20 strokes across the pool/ 25yrds. My count is usually 17 across the pool and I swim at a 1:30-1:35/100 pace! If not...then they are just super awesome!! I was wondering if someone would address this. I know I have a ridiculously high stroke count but I couldn't see how 20/100 is even possible. |
| 2011-10-29 9:02 AM in reply to: #3743308 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! tjfry - 2011-10-29 7:03 AM tcovert - 2011-10-29 12:29 AM Agree. You have to have an effective kick, but once you do I think minimal kicking works great for what we do. http://badig.com/2009/06/the-two-beat-kick/jgs733 - 2011-10-28 12:06 PM I would respectfully disagree with the steady flutter kick. Over kicking is why a lot of swimmers struggle with form. The kick should almost be an afterthought, with a single kick or two (from the hips, not knees) per stroke. IMO kicking is less for propulsion and more for balance and to assist with body roll. ^^ This...especially for inexperienced swimmers. A study I've seen pegged the contribution to propulsion from kicking for elite swimmers at only 10%. The conclusion was that a minimal (but properly executed) kick is better than a bad flutter kick. Over the last four years, I've watched an awful lot of triathletes on my wife's company tri team without swimming experience spend lap after lap at team workouts kicking their hips gradually down toward the bottom of the pool. Thanks! This visual helped immensely, along with the description of what needed to get across. |
| 2011-10-30 4:46 PM in reply to: #3742329 |
Veteran 344 | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! |
| 2011-10-31 7:55 AM in reply to: #3742329 |
| New user 104 | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! What you could do is get one of those flip video recorders with a waterproof case, just try amazon. Get someone to film you and post some vids here and ask for some critiques. The money that I spent on that was well worth it. I just think that the money that you would spend for a half hour lessons here and there is something that you might find fleeting. It is extremely difficult to change your technique. That is one of the things about the vids, you can look back and see over time how things are looking better. |
| 2011-10-31 11:39 AM in reply to: #3742687 |
Member 71 Mesa, AZ | Subject: RE: Swimming -Weak Kick I find I am better off with a minimal kick in OWS or I get cramps in my calf's. |
| 2011-10-31 12:58 PM in reply to: #3742343 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! lisac957 - 2011-10-28 9:08 AM As my boyfriend (former D1 swimmer) says... it's all about what happens underneath the water.
Never has a wiser statement made about swimming. Of course, my stroke looks lousy above the water. |
| 2011-10-31 12:58 PM in reply to: #3742343 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! |
| 2011-10-31 1:03 PM in reply to: #3743361 |
| Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! apicek - 2011-10-29 8:24 AM twomarks - 2011-10-28 12:01 PM. I take about 20 or so strokes per 100 (21 if no flip turn) and I try to just glide along, but when I try to go faster - thrashing ensues. You either have six foot long arms or are gliding for 5 seconds after each stroke. 20 per 100 is way too low for anyone.
I'm sure the op meant 20 strokes per 25 yds/meters. I am still relatively new to swimming with just over a years experience, but one of the things I attribute to getting faster was reducing my stroke count (I know that the jury is still out on this whole topic). However, when I started swimming I was around a 27-28 count and swam something awful like 2:30/100. After working with my tri group's swim coach for several months he got me down to a 16 count stroke and swimming 1:20's. |
| 2011-10-31 1:09 PM in reply to: #3742329 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Swimming - sheesh! Stroke count appears to be the focus of many tri discussions. It also is the focus of a number of drills used by coaches at all levels, but it is not the holy grail. I stroke 20/min and that woks for me for long distance aerobic swims. |
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