General Discussion Triathlon Talk » running lots- how much is lots? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2011-11-25 6:01 PM

User image

Veteran
732
50010010025
Pittsburgh, PA
Subject: running lots- how much is lots?

I've read a few threads recently in which it's been argued that a 3x per week runner would benefit by adding short runs in on the off days- as little as ten minutes?  I used to be under the impression that running lots meant lots of miles, not lots of times per week without necessarily adding miles?  (I know, running lots of miles means more days per week, but these threads seem to be advocating roughly the same mileage but spread out over 6 days.)

1.  Is there any merit to that (increase mileage by a tad but days running by a lot)?

2.  This winter, I was planning to focus on weight loss and easy jogs/ easy swims/ pilates.  Was planning on 30-60 minute jogs, then do a half-marathon plan for later winter/ early spring, then back into tri training.  Weight loss aside (I know that will make me faster!) will adding in, say, 15-20 minute jogs each day I'm not running longer actually make me faster than I would be otherwise?



2011-11-25 6:34 PM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Elite
3658
200010005001002525
Roswell, GA
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

Yes, running more often will make you faster.  How much faster depends on a lot of things.

I don't know anything about your fitness, but 2-3 20 minute jogs being part of running 5-6 day a week sounds perfect.  The key to adjusting to running more often is to make sure you run easy.

2011-11-25 7:10 PM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
chayes - 2011-11-25 8:01 PM


1.  Is there any merit to that (increase mileage by a tad but days running by a lot)?



Yes but not so because of the increased frequency with the same volume but because with increased frequency you can usually then tolerate more volume.

Shane
2011-11-25 7:20 PM
in reply to: #3915109

User image

Veteran
732
50010010025
Pittsburgh, PA
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

gsmacleod - 2011-11-25 7:10 PM
chayes - 2011-11-25 8:01 PM 1.  Is there any merit to that (increase mileage by a tad but days running by a lot)?
Yes but not so because of the increased frequency with the same volume but because with increased frequency you can usually then tolerate more volume. Shane

So... say one would be running 12 miles per week.  I read those threads to say,   Better to do, say, 2 x 1.5 miles, 3x2 miles, and 1x3 miles, than 5, 4, 3.  But you are saying, that won't really help anything?

But you seem to say- you will get faster if you do, say, 3x3 and 3x2 (so get in 15 miles overall)?

And I know- 15 miles is a really small amount for anyone who's serious about running.  I'm not that serious about running (obviously) but if 15 miles 6 days a week would make me much faster than 12 miles 3 days, well, sure I'll do that.  But does anyone think that will really help?

2011-11-25 7:28 PM
in reply to: #3915116

User image

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
chayes - 2011-11-25 9:20 PM

So... say one would be running 12 miles per week.  I read those threads to say,   Better to do, say, 2 x 1.5 miles, 3x2 miles, and 1x3 miles, than 5, 4, 3.  But you are saying, that won't really help anything?


No, those threads aren't saying that the six runs are necessarily going to be better but rather that if you are going to build volume that first increasing frequency is often the best plan. If you run 12 miles every week, there will be slight differences between the plans but improved running means increased training load which means running more.

But you seem to say- you will get faster if you do, say, 3x3 and 3x2 (so get in 15 miles overall)?

And I know- 15 miles is a really small amount for anyone who's serious about running.  I'm not that serious about running (obviously) but if 15 miles 6 days a week would make me much faster than 12 miles 3 days, well, sure I'll do that.  But does anyone think that will really help?



Yes, 15 miles is better than 12; that is a 25% increase in run volume.

Shane
2011-11-25 8:04 PM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Master
2563
20005002525
University Park, MD
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

I think that I was one of the ones who sang the virtues of running even as little as 10 minutes a day as a part of a run-often plan. 

To clarify (and to echo part of what Shane already said): it's not that doing frequent short runs will suddenly make you faster. Rather, it's a great way to start building towards running rather more miles, while minimizing injury risk. If you run steady every day, then you should quickly find that it's not hard to increase the length of the runs. That's when you start to see the real benefits of the mileage, and that's when the fitness gains really start to show. That volume should, in principle, also better prepare your body to handle occasional higher intensity runs, again with reduced injury risk. 

Quite apart from that, I find that I really enjoy my daily fix of steady running. I feel great afterwards.



2011-11-26 8:01 AM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Expert
2555
20005002525
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

Your first assumption was correct. Running lots means lots of miles. One of the best ways to run lots of miles is to run lots of days. Because many people don't run lots of the days, advise has been given to add in short runs on days these people don't normally run. Once people get used to running frequently it's usually better to even out the daily running unless they are training specifically for some race. Your example of doing 3x2 & 3x3 is good. Now by simply adding .5 miles to each of those runs once every other week or so, you can grow the overall volume fairly quickly. For many people that only adds another 5 minutes or so to their runs. So without overly stressing the body it's possible to grow the volume up to 25-30 miles/week within a few months. That's when you're likely to start seeing improvements to your speed. Frequency, consistency over a longer time frame and bingo - faster running. Where many people fail is they don't keep at it long enough to see the improvements. Keep it up for at least 6 months. The more you can gradually add to the weekly volume the better - up to a certain point.

 

Have fun!

2011-11-28 8:16 AM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
As everyone has said, the key point is to build frequency and consistency first, then build overall volume.

The reason that frequency is so important is due to the fact that lots of miles are much less strenuous on the body when spread out over several runs.

Using an extreme (for a beginner) level of 60 miles per week, it is much less stressful for a person to do that sort of mileage in 7 or 10 or more runs during a week than it is to try to get it all into 3 runs a week. At 60 miles in 3 runs, that's an average of 20 miles per; with 6, it works out to only 10 miles per. Same total mileage, much greater ability to recover from each.
2011-11-28 8:30 AM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Master
1460
10001001001001002525
Burlington, Vermont
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

Yes ... as has been clarified ... more running means more mileage. To run better you have to do more of it from an overall mileage sense. Add those miles slowly, tough. The 10% rule is a good one, but I think you can add more than that to a smaller load.

The key is to run more miles slowly. You should have a couple of key run workouts per week for which you are well rested. This means running the rest of your miles at either a recovery pace or a slow GA (general aerobic) level. It is crucial to realize that the fastest runners are not running every run at their fastest pace. I'm a sub 1:30 half marathoner and a 3:10 marathoner and my recovery miles are all run close to a 9min/mile pace. Then, when I hit the track or a LT run, I've got the energy to really make it count.

Let me say it one more time ... more miles run more slowly than you'd think. 

2011-11-28 8:38 AM
in reply to: #3915063

User image

Pro
5755
50005001001002525
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
chayes - 2011-11-25 7:01 PM

I've read a few threads recently in which it's been argued that a 3x per week runner would benefit by adding short runs in on the off days- as little as ten minutes?  I used to be under the impression that running lots meant lots of miles, not lots of times per week without necessarily adding miles?  (I know, running lots of miles means more days per week, but these threads seem to be advocating roughly the same mileage but spread out over 6 days.)

1.  Is there any merit to that (increase mileage by a tad but days running by a lot)?

2.  This winter, I was planning to focus on weight loss and easy jogs/ easy swims/ pilates.  Was planning on 30-60 minute jogs, then do a half-marathon plan for later winter/ early spring, then back into tri training.  Weight loss aside (I know that will make me faster!) will adding in, say, 15-20 minute jogs each day I'm not running longer actually make me faster than I would be otherwise?

Running 5-6 days a week is a great idea. Setting a training plan is important. It's easier to have a routine where have more days on than off. You'll come to expect running and it will actually be more stressful if you miss a day. By keeping the mileage and pace to a reasonable level you will also minimize the possibility of injury, as has been said.

Keep a log, it is great motivation as you keep putting "another one in the books." Looking back and see the miles run and the weight lost is just huge.

2011-11-28 1:50 PM
in reply to: #3915063

Expert
878
500100100100252525
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

Ok so I get that overall running volume is necessary to increase speed and endurance.  Makes sense.  But I also hear recommendations of putting 150 mile weeks in on the bike, that's what? 8 hours of riding a week?  And don't forget swimming?  10,000-15,000 yards a week?  what are we up to now?  Seems like even on here, a triathlon specific forum, the same volume recommendations that are given for these sports by them selves are given for each of the three. 

When I started biking and swimming regularly my running volume had to take a hit.  Is this not the case with everyone or do I just not have as much free time as others do?



2011-11-28 2:06 PM
in reply to: #3917487

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
2453V - 2011-11-28 2:50 PM

Ok so I get that overall running volume is necessary to increase speed and endurance.  Makes sense.  But I also hear recommendations of putting 150 mile weeks in on the bike, that's what? 8 hours of riding a week?  And don't forget swimming?  10,000-15,000 yards a week?  what are we up to now?  Seems like even on here, a triathlon specific forum, the same volume recommendations that are given for these sports by them selves are given for each of the three. 

When I started biking and swimming regularly my running volume had to take a hit.  Is this not the case with everyone or do I just not have as much free time as others do?



It all comes down to goals.

You have to determine where triathlon races fit into your overall list of goals, evaluate the amount of training required to reach your triathlon goals, and re-adjust those goals based on the amount of time you have to train.

There are ways to find hidden time throughout your day, but in the end, you have to decide how you want to spend your time. If your goal is to some day enter an Ironman, you should be aware of the training time/volume that goal entails, and then determine if it's really feasible or not.

Specific mileage recommendations read from an online message board are not all that useful a tool for determining how much training you as an individual should be doing. There are a lot of variables that come into play, so take those numbers as guidelines, not gospel.

In the end, you train as much as you are able, and by "able" I mean "have the time and the interest to do".
2011-11-28 2:16 PM
in reply to: #3917515

Expert
878
500100100100252525
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?

Scout7 - 2011-11-28 2:06 PM 

In the end, you train as much as you are able, and by "able" I mean "have the time and the interest to do".

And there in lies the problem.  Sometimes the interest and the time don't seem to be in agreement... Someone needs to find a way to manufacture more hours.



Edited by 2453V 2011-11-28 2:16 PM
2011-11-28 2:27 PM
in reply to: #3917541

User image

Pro
5755
50005001001002525
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
2453V - 2011-11-28 3:16 PM

Scout7 - 2011-11-28 2:06 PM 

In the end, you train as much as you are able, and by "able" I mean "have the time and the interest to do".

And there in lies the problem.  Sometimes the interest and the time don't seem to be in agreement... Someone needs to find a way to manufacture more hours.

Yup. And when you throw family into the mix it just adds to the dynamic. You can still do it, but it might mean swimming at 6am before work and biking on the trainer/running on a treadmill when everyone else goes to bed.

2011-11-28 2:29 PM
in reply to: #3917541

User image

Runner
Subject: RE: running lots- how much is lots?
2453V - 2011-11-28 3:16 PM

Scout7 - 2011-11-28 2:06 PM 

In the end, you train as much as you are able, and by "able" I mean "have the time and the interest to do".

And there in lies the problem.  Sometimes the interest and the time don't seem to be in agreement... Someone needs to find a way to manufacture more hours.



Or, perhaps this is an opportunity to truly evaluate what your goals are and how you spend time.

Not being crass or insincere, but what you're talking about is an issue everyone faces. I believe that a lot of it comes from the metaphor of the rider and the elephant. We are divided, and our conscious, logical side thinks it has control, but the reality is that the control we think we have is an illusion.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » running lots- how much is lots? Rss Feed