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2012-01-02 11:35 AM

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Subject: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Ok, I'm seriously considering doing an Ironman in 2013 and I'd like some help in chosing one.  Since this is going to be my first I'd like something that doesn't kill me - plus the race has to be in Europe (to minimize travel expenses).  I've considered a few up to this point - IMUK, IM France - Nice, and IM Austria ... with Germany and Switzerland in the back of my mind.  Top on my personal list is Nice - apart from being in the most beautiful area of France I'd get to swim in saltwater ... which I love!  But the bike course looks challenging seeing that you have to climb to Col de l'Ecre!  Any ideas or suggestions?


2012-01-02 12:42 PM
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2012-01-02 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Are you looking specifically for an M-dot race or any iron-distance race?  What would you consider an "ideal" venue (terrain, weather, language, etc.)? 
2012-01-03 8:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013

I recently saw an article that ranked IM courses by difficulty based purely on average finishing times, and if I recall correctly Switzerland was the "easiest" course.

Can anyone else help me out on a link to that article?

2012-01-03 11:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Climbinggonzo - 2012-01-03 9:03 AM

I recently saw an article that ranked IM courses by difficulty based purely on average finishing times, and if I recall correctly Switzerland was the "easiest" course.

Can anyone else help me out on a link to that article?

Found this site with tons of data and the following graph that seems to support what your saying:

2012-01-03 2:39 PM
in reply to: #3968126

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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Donto - 2012-01-03 12:10 PM
Climbinggonzo - 2012-01-03 9:03 AM

I recently saw an article that ranked IM courses by difficulty based purely on average finishing times, and if I recall correctly Switzerland was the "easiest" course.

Can anyone else help me out on a link to that article?

Found this site with tons of data and the following graph that seems to support what your saying:

Isn't it odd that the "easiest" 10 races are outside of the United States?  I doubt these results can be attributable solely to the course (i.e. the flattest/best weather/etc.).  I'd suggest part of this disparity is that Europeans that enter these events, generally speaking, tend to be more competitive (i.e. fewer participants just trying to finish in 17 hours) than their American counterparts.  I think if you analyzed marathon times you'd find similar results.  I have two friends who have done IM Switzerland - both have also completed domestic Ironmans - and both claim it is not an easy course compared to others they have done.



Edited by Patrick E 2012-01-03 2:44 PM


2012-01-03 11:16 PM
in reply to: #3968699

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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Patrick E - 2012-01-03 2:39 PM
Donto - 2012-01-03 12:10 PM
Climbinggonzo - 2012-01-03 9:03 AM

I recently saw an article that ranked IM courses by difficulty based purely on average finishing times, and if I recall correctly Switzerland was the "easiest" course.

Can anyone else help me out on a link to that article?

Found this site with tons of data and the following graph that seems to support what your saying:

Isn't it odd that the "easiest" 10 races are outside of the United States?  I doubt these results can be attributable solely to the course (i.e. the flattest/best weather/etc.).  I'd suggest part of this disparity is that Europeans that enter these events, generally speaking, tend to be more competitive (i.e. fewer participants just trying to finish in 17 hours) than their American counterparts.  I think if you analyzed marathon times you'd find similar results.  I have two friends who have done IM Switzerland - both have also completed domestic Ironmans - and both claim it is not an easy course compared to others they have done.

That is right on.  I am doing IM Switzerland this year, and have been on that course in addition to some other IM courses.  It is not easy racing.  Not as challenging of a euro race as Lanzarote, but not easy.  The fields in the european events are quite a bit stronger and sometimes smaller.  Part of it is competitiveness, and part of it is that these countries don't have 300Mil people as a pool that they can draw from.  The big disparity is in fitness and stigma - the IM brand is more popular in America and has a mass appeal where any one of 300mil can train for IM.  Tri in Europe is quite different than Tri in America...not in any way more negative or positive.

2012-01-04 12:12 AM
in reply to: #3966293


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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Looking to do Frankfurt or Zurich myself in 2013!
2012-01-04 12:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
Not sure what it is about racing in Europe but what is generally considered MOP in North America is pretty much back of the pack here (generally speaking).  For example, I had read over and over again that a lot of people spend nearly two hours on the field for their first sprint and that a 1:30 sprint is a goal for a number of tri newbies.  I finished my first tri in exactly 1:30 ... only to look around and notice I was DFL.  It just seems that the bar is a bit higher here - which is not necessarily a good thing!
2012-01-04 8:00 AM
in reply to: #3966293

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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013

Don't at least some of those European courses have 15-16 hr cut-offs instead of the 17 for all US ones?Knocking of the last hour or two of finishers would significantly increase the average time.

I read through the linked article, but could not tell how they accounted for any reasons some courses may attract some demographics* more so than others. 2,000-3,000 may seem like a large number, but bias can still very well be present. See the Euro vs US attitude towards fitness already brought up for one example. At least some of the races also have only 1 year of results.  In being able to make this sort of claim, it's necessary to get eliminate or reduce bias as much as possible. Simply not seeing it isn't really that great. It's better to show that it's not present (or less present).

* Demographics may not be exactly the word I'm looking for, but hopefully in the general idea is still clear.

The control has to be consistent from one race to the next. For me, I keep an eye out for familiar names and also balance in how the pro fields do. The Kona factor can come into play as some may be more prestigious and desireable to win, bringing on more contestants A games, but this can be lessened some by knowing this about Kona and to a lesser extent anything with "Championship" in the title.

This may not work as well for everyone because some will handle different conditions better than others. Like heat.

And then it can only still go so far. Which is harder, St George or Cour d'Alene? It's generally considered St George, but some of the pros have said Cour d'Alene can be harder for them in some years. Conditions of the day can really factor in.



Edited by brigby1 2012-01-04 8:02 AM
2012-01-04 10:31 AM
in reply to: #3966293

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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
I agree that the data in that graph is probably skewed because I wonder if Euro's have more respect, or take the 140.6 distance a little more seriously than we do?  I may get in some hot water here (flame-proof underwear is now on), but is there by chance a bigger sense of entitlement here (North America) than there, and alot more people here sign up for full distance IM races when they're not ready for them, hence the slower times for North American races?  While I believe that the races are open to whoever wants to sign up, and that's everyone's prerogative, perhaps the folks in Europe simply have a different attitude towards when they're ready for the full distance.


2012-01-04 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013

I've done Austria and Switzerland.  Switzerland has a 16 hour cutoff.

Both courses are challenging and the scenery is spectacular.  Austria had the prettier swim.

Switzerland has many cows with bells.  You won't be asking for more cow bell!

Switzerland has a large hill in town and you get to find out what riding a mountain in the Tour feels like.  You can't see the road through the crowd and they get out of your way just in time.  It's a rush.

The Austria course seemed more scenic in general.

Austria had real beer at the finish and Switzerland had non-alcoholic beer.

I preferred Austria, and not just because of the beer Cool

If you are not married to an IM branded race, consider Roth in Germany.

2012-01-04 8:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013

Regarding crowds at European IMs versus US IMs, very very few show up at Europe races just to finish.  I think the "just finish" attitude is a US thing.

You don't see very much walking on the run leg.

The crowds seem more intense at the Euro races.

2012-01-07 9:36 PM
in reply to: #3968699

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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013

I'm looking at stateside race for 13.  where does texas stack up here?

 

Patrick E - 2012-01-03 2:39 PM
Donto - 2012-01-03 12:10 PM
Climbinggonzo - 2012-01-03 9:03 AM

I recently saw an article that ranked IM courses by difficulty based purely on average finishing times, and if I recall correctly Switzerland was the "easiest" course.

Can anyone else help me out on a link to that article?

Found this site with tons of data and the following graph that seems to support what your saying:

Isn't it odd that the "easiest" 10 races are outside of the United States?  I doubt these results can be attributable solely to the course (i.e. the flattest/best weather/etc.).  I'd suggest part of this disparity is that Europeans that enter these events, generally speaking, tend to be more competitive (i.e. fewer participants just trying to finish in 17 hours) than their American counterparts.  I think if you analyzed marathon times you'd find similar results.  I have two friends who have done IM Switzerland - both have also completed domestic Ironmans - and both claim it is not an easy course compared to others they have done.

2012-01-08 4:38 AM
in reply to: #3966293

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Subject: RE: Help me choose an Ironman for 2013
How's Texas?  Doing that as my first Ironman in 2013, days before my 35th birthday
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