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2012-01-25 1:44 PM

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Subject: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

Sorry this will be long, but please read...I could use some advice other than my coach telling me that I have to make the decision on how I feel.  I understand what he's saying, just might help to have some insight from anyone who's been here before.

I worked my butt of last year, from my first sprint to my first Oly at the end of the season.  I've been excited all winter about completing my first 1/2 Iron in April....then the bad luck hit.  A bike wreck in October sidelined me from training for a while, but I was back at it as soon as my doctor allowed.  I don't think I lost much on the swim and the bike, but boy did my run suffer.

As I've tried to ease back into my run it's been one issue after another...knee pain...hip pain...and now ankle pain....some from the wreck, some from poor running mechanics which I have despirately been working to correct with my coach.  Winter was supposed to be run work for me.  I took it slow coming back, starting out at 4 miles, and worked myway up to 1/2 marathon distance on a treadmill almost 2 months later.  After I achieved this distance, I backed off a bit, and that's when all my issues started. 

Before the wreck I was consistantly running 3 x's a week, 1 quality workout, 1 4-5 mile tempo workout, and a long easy run on the weekends typically no shorter than 6 miles, longest being 10.  I train with a tri program and I was following a 1/2 marathon training plan before my wreck, and even after I seemed to get back to that distance fairly quickly.  I've been seen/treated for all the pain issues and all are resolved except a pinch in my hip and the ankle, which my doctor thinks will be just fine in about 4 weeks and said that should not keep me out of the 1/2 Iron. 

I'm not at all concerned about the swim and the bike as I'm consistantly and easily exceeding the race distances at this point in my training.  Those two events come very easily for me, but I struggle so much with the run.

So here I am...ran 4 miles yesterday morning without pain at a 10 min/mile pace....my first, relatively, pain free run in weeks.  My therapist said if the ankle doesn't hurt I can keep building while we treat, so I'll try for 4.5 this weekend.  

I feel like I've come so far and I don't want to miss this chance to do my first 1/2 Iron after the year's worth of work I've already put in.  I know there will be other races, but I would have to wait for this race next year.  The only other local 1/2 has, what I consider to be after working it last year, a very dangerous bike course.  Traveling out of state to do a 1/2 is not an option for me due to the expense and lack of vacation time.  There are other non-branded 1/2 events around here during the year...I just wanted my first half to be an "official Ironman 70.3 event"....I know...I've been told it sounds silly.

So......what would you do....bow out or keep pushing and try to make it happen?

Thanks everyone!



2012-01-25 2:06 PM
in reply to: #4010609

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-25 1:44 PM

As I've tried to ease back into my run it's been one issue after another...knee pain...hip pain...and now ankle pain....some from the wreck, some from poor running mechanics which I have despirately been working to correct with my coach.  Winter was supposed to be run work for me.  I took it slow coming back, starting out at 4 miles, and worked my way up to 1/2 marathon distance on a treadmill almost 2 months later.  After I achieved this distance, I backed off a bit, and that's when all my issues started. 

Can I ask why you're doing (all?) your runs on a treadmill?
If you're targeting a HIM in April I'm assuming you live in a fairly warm weather area (Texas?) and even if not, a few good clothing pieces would get you through cold winter runs.

I ask because running on a treadmill, for me, completely changes my stride and gait.
I try to use it only for hill workouts (no hills around here) or when there is ice on the ground.

Not saying that is the source of your issues, but it could be a contributing factor.
  

2012-01-25 2:15 PM
in reply to: #4010609

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-25 2:44 PM

 There are other non-branded 1/2 events around here during the year...I just wanted my first half to be an "official Ironman 70.3 event"....I know...I've been told it sounds silly.

So......what would you do....bow out or keep pushing and try to make it happen?

 

I"m trying to work up to my first 1/2 this year also.  Sounds like you already have a huge fitness base with all that swimming and biking, not to mention your pre-established running which you will undoubtedly get back to very soon.

I have a bigger hill to climb.  My personal strategy, since I am admittedly in over my head, was to start on the BT 1/2 iron plan found here, and see if I can make it through.   I"m only on week 3 but so far so good, I'm giving myself a B+ thus far.

Perhaps consider doing the same approach?   Just follow the plan until day #120 and then decide if you can hang.   Following the plan has been a tremendous confidence boost for me.  I"m gonna stick with it as long as I can, and that outcome will drive the decision on how soon (or even IF) I can participate.

Also, 100% endorsement on the notion of your first 1/2 iron being 'the real deal' branded event ironman 70.3.   Some of the rock-stars around here can think it's silly / emotional / ego-driven / whatever, I really dont care at all, I want the whole experience just like you.  And the t-shirt.   

2012-01-25 2:32 PM
in reply to: #4010609

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

When in April is the HIM?  If I were in your shoes, I would be working very hard on the bike and slowly ramp up the run.  You will need to come off the bike feeling fresh.  Work the run schedule backwards from 10 days prior to the HIM with a 12 mile run, decending 1 mile each week.  If time permits, include a few recovery weeks.

Good luck!!    



Edited by bhc 2012-01-25 2:35 PM
2012-01-25 2:47 PM
in reply to: #4010663

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
lisac957 - 2012-01-25 2:06 PM

Can I ask why you're doing (all?) your runs on a treadmill?
If you're targeting a HIM in April I'm assuming you live in a fairly warm weather area (Texas?) and even if not, a few good clothing pieces would get you through cold winter runs.

Sorry if that was confusing...the 1/2 marathon distance was done on a treadmill because I was scheduled for that distance the week I was on vacation on a cruise ship.  The treadmill was my only option at sea!  :-)  Most of my runs are outside.  My weekend runs are on a crushed granite trail around a like, fairly flat with some small hills, and my track workouts are at our local high school track.  I'm outside as much as I can be, I hate being indoors...even for work M-F!!  LOL!

2012-01-25 3:01 PM
in reply to: #4010679

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
Americanfatass - 2012-01-25 2:15 PM 

Perhaps consider doing the same approach?   Just follow the plan until day #120 and then decide if you can hang.   Following the plan has been a tremendous confidence boost for me.  I"m gonna stick with it as long as I can, and that outcome will drive the decision on how soon (or even IF) I can participate.

Also, 100% endorsement on the notion of your first 1/2 iron being 'the real deal' branded event ironman 70.3.   Some of the rock-stars around here can think it's silly / emotional / ego-driven / whatever, I really dont care at all, I want the whole experience just like you.  And the t-shirt.   

I guess that's what worries me right now....I can't "hang" with my own coaches plan....at least not the running part.  I'm ahead on everything else!  LOL!  Maybe I'll pull the BT plan and see how it compares to the one I'm currently on.  Hoping it's easier than what I'm currently trying to do and I can find a "happy medium" with the running part between the two...



2012-01-25 3:10 PM
in reply to: #4010726

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
bhc - 2012-01-25 2:32 PM

When in April is the HIM?  If I were in your shoes, I would be working very hard on the bike and slowly ramp up the run.  You will need to come off the bike feeling fresh.  Work the run schedule backwards from 10 days prior to the HIM with a 12 mile run, decending 1 mile each week.  If time permits, include a few recovery weeks.

Good luck!!    

April 1st, Galveston 70.3.  I upgraded to a tri bike last year and I've done some bricks off of it on my longer rides and I feel a lot fresher than I ever did coming off my road bike at the same distance.  So I'm hoping the bike swap will help minimize fatigue for at least the start of that aweful, aweful run.  ;-)  I know the course is going to be flat but can be very windy.  Thankfully we have a hilly, windy area here locally to train on...my thought is if I can rock the hills and wind, flat and wind should be cake!  The run is a 4 loop flat from my understanding.

I know for someone like me finishing is going to be the target, no way I'm every going to win or even place in my age group, I'm just not that fast.  But I do want to go out there and have a great race and know that I performed my very best.  If I have to walk 13.1 miles that day I'm not going to be a happy camper.  If I have to walk some, I can live with that. 

Thanks for the suggestion of working backwards on the run.  I'll look at my training plan tonight and the BT plan and see what I come up with and where I should be this week.

2012-01-25 3:17 PM
in reply to: #4010609

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-25 2:44 PM

As I've tried to ease back into my run it's been one issue after another...knee pain...hip pain...and now ankle pain....some from the wreck, some from poor running mechanics which I have despirately been working to correct with my coach.  [...]

Before the wreck I was consistantly running 3 x's a week, 1 quality workout, 1 4-5 mile tempo workout, and a long easy run on the weekends typically no shorter than 6 miles, longest being 10.  

This is the part that worries me, and makes me suspect that your running plan is partially to blame for your injuries. If the week that you describe is representative, then you may be doing most of your weekly run miles in a single workout. For many people, especially those of us who are no longer so youthful, that is asking for trouble. I would suggest to work on a running plan that starts out by simply forgetting the "quality workout" and the "tempo workout" and instead just puts in some easy/steady miles as close to every day as you can. The goal should be to run often enough and steady enough that no individual workout produces a volume of pounding stress that will beat up your body. Try not to have more than about a third of your weekly mileage in any individual run. Many of us here have approached our run training in this way and found that it has helped us to avoid injuries, and has also helped us to get faster ... despite doing little or no speedwork. It can mean starting out with runs that may be shockingly short and easy, but it can really pay dividends. A useful resource for this is the BarryP compendium of running articles on Slowtwitch, which can be found here. For an interesting thread here on BT of somebody who picked up this approach and has been checking back regularly on his progress, go here

Last winter I lost 5 months with injuries that I think I picked up from doing too much intense running too early in my tri training (I come from a running background, albeit many years ago, and thought that I could still train like a kid - wrong!). I feared that I might never run again, and certainly worried that I'd have to skip my first season of tris. Since last April I've been running essentially every day, starting out with just 10 minutes a day. After 4 months I did my first HIM. Throughout 2011 I did zero speedwork, but was running races faster than I had in decades. I started cautiously with speedwork just this month, and now it beats up my legs much less, because of all the resilience that they've built up from the months of steady miles.

Good luck.

2012-01-25 3:26 PM
in reply to: #4010813

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-25 4:01 PM
Americanfatass - 2012-01-25 2:15 PM 

Perhaps consider doing the same approach?   Just follow the plan until day #120 and then decide if you can hang.   Following the plan has been a tremendous confidence boost for me.  I"m gonna stick with it as long as I can, and that outcome will drive the decision on how soon (or even IF) I can participate.

Also, 100% endorsement on the notion of your first 1/2 iron being 'the real deal' branded event ironman 70.3.   Some of the rock-stars around here can think it's silly / emotional / ego-driven / whatever, I really dont care at all, I want the whole experience just like you.  And the t-shirt.   

I guess that's what worries me right now....I can't "hang" with my own coaches plan....at least not the running part.  I'm ahead on everything else!  LOL!  Maybe I'll pull the BT plan and see how it compares to the one I'm currently on.  Hoping it's easier than what I'm currently trying to do and I can find a "happy medium" with the running part between the two...

...what are you paying your coach for if you're not able to "hang" on their plan? Shouldn't the be adjusting it to fit your needs?

2012-01-30 9:42 AM
in reply to: #4010848

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
colinphillips - 2012-01-25 3:17 PM
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-25 2:44 PM

As I've tried to ease back into my run it's been one issue after another...knee pain...hip pain...and now ankle pain....some from the wreck, some from poor running mechanics which I have despirately been working to correct with my coach.  [...]

Before the wreck I was consistantly running 3 x's a week, 1 quality workout, 1 4-5 mile tempo workout, and a long easy run on the weekends typically no shorter than 6 miles, longest being 10.  

This is the part that worries me, and makes me suspect that your running plan is partially to blame for your injuries. ....I would suggest to work on a running plan that starts out by simply forgetting the "quality workout" and the "tempo workout" and instead just puts in some easy/steady miles as close to every day as you can. The goal should be to run often enough and steady enough that no individual workout produces a volume of pounding stress that will beat up your body.

THANK YOU!!!  Makes total sense!!  I've been running for years and didn't start dealing with all of these running injuries until I started doing more speed work.  Another multi-Ironman finisher on our team has told me that this is the approach that she takes.  It makes total sense and now that I'm feeling better I think I will give it a try!!  I have 8 weeks from this week....still not sure if that's enough time to get my run ready.  I'll have to decide for sure by 2/17/12.  :-/  At least 3 weeks doing this new steady program should help me decide.

2012-01-30 9:48 AM
in reply to: #4010872

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

..what are you paying your coach for if you're not able to "hang" on their plan? Shouldn't the be adjusting it to fit your needs?

It's a group training plan, I'm not paying for individualized coaching.  I use the plan as guidelines for where I should be at certain points in the program.  Right now because I haven't been able to run as much, I'm behind on my weekly mileage, which is why I say I can't hang with the running part of plan.  For comparison, I'm well over the speed/distance on the swim part of the program, but I come from an extensive swim backgroun.

I don't know if 8-9 weeks is enough time for me to go from about 4 miles before my ankle pain starts to a 1/2 marathon when I'm tired if I'm already behind where I should be on the run.  Even though I've done a 1/2 marathon distance before, I know that adding too much mileage too fast is just going to pin me down with yet another injury, so I want to be smart about this.  Sure...I could go out there and walk the run, but who wants to do that?  I know I'll have to walk some, but I would like the majority to be running.  The doctor and therapist treating my ankle feel that the 1/2 Iron is still very doable as long as I stick to the running that I can do right now without pain.  As soon as the tiniest pain sets in, I'm supposed to immediately stop for the day.  I don't know if I should believe them or not.  They've treated thousands of athletes...they work solely with athletes...mostly runners and triathletes. 

Guess I need to just keep plugging away and see how it goes.....  Thanks for all the advice!

 



2012-01-30 10:07 AM
in reply to: #4018366

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-30 10:42 AM

colinphillips - 2012-01-25 3:17 PM
Mrs Bru - 2012-01-25 2:44 PM

As I've tried to ease back into my run it's been one issue after another...knee pain...hip pain...and now ankle pain....some from the wreck, some from poor running mechanics which I have despirately been working to correct with my coach.  [...]

Before the wreck I was consistantly running 3 x's a week, 1 quality workout, 1 4-5 mile tempo workout, and a long easy run on the weekends typically no shorter than 6 miles, longest being 10.  

This is the part that worries me, and makes me suspect that your running plan is partially to blame for your injuries. ....I would suggest to work on a running plan that starts out by simply forgetting the "quality workout" and the "tempo workout" and instead just puts in some easy/steady miles as close to every day as you can. The goal should be to run often enough and steady enough that no individual workout produces a volume of pounding stress that will beat up your body.

THANK YOU!!!  Makes total sense!!  I've been running for years and didn't start dealing with all of these running injuries until I started doing more speed work.  Another multi-Ironman finisher on our team has told me that this is the approach that she takes.  It makes total sense and now that I'm feeling better I think I will give it a try!!  I have 8 weeks from this week....still not sure if that's enough time to get my run ready.  I'll have to decide for sure by 2/17/12.  :-/  At least 3 weeks doing this new steady program should help me decide.



As long as you are comfortable with the idea of walking some of the run then I would say race away. The way you describe your swim and bike, you should be getting to the run feeling pretty good. Then just take it how you feel. If your body rebels against you, walk a bunch and run a little. If you feel great, then run as much of the race as you can. It may not be ideal but you will likely be able to finish the 70.3 distance, just not as fast as you may like.

I agree with taking out the tempo/speedwork. Just work on running at the pace you think you can run your race at.

Good luck.
2012-01-31 8:55 AM
in reply to: #4018450

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

As long as you are comfortable with the idea of walking some of the run then I would say race away. The way you describe your swim and bike, you should be getting to the run feeling pretty good. Then just take it how you feel. If your body rebels against you, walk a bunch and run a little. If you feel great, then run as much of the race as you can. It may not be ideal but you will likely be able to finish the 70.3 distance, just not as fast as you may like. I agree with taking out the tempo/speedwork. Just work on running at the pace you think you can run your race at. Good luck.

While walking is not ideal I've had to walk some of every race I've ever done.  I'm not going for a podium finish here either.  I would describe myself as a solid middle of the pack age grouper in Sprint and Oly distance races....always top 10 out of the water and then I start to fall behind from there and really lose it on the run.  The whole purpose of me doing the distance would just be to finish and finish before the cutoff and I think I can do that.  Really, for me it's all about the journey to get there and the experience of having accomplished such an amazing feat like a 70.3!  

Yes, I do feel very confident that I would get to the start of the run in really great shape.  I logged 85 miles on my tri bike this weekend (2 months out from the race), 51 of it was hilly and battling 22mph wind gusts and I still averaged 14.5mph!!  I thought if I can ride hills and wind, I can ride flat and wind!  LOL!!  I'm consistantly top 10 out of the swim in Sprint and Oly distance races.  What always kills my race is the run; that's where I get passed, and passed, and passed!  I'm working on that....someday I hope to be a bit better at the run than I am now.  That's what I love about tris, there's always room for improvement!  But yes, I would consider myself to be quite strong in the swim and bike and am not worried about either of those events at all.  If I had to do that part of the race tomorrow, I'd be ready. 

This morning would have been a speed morning and at the boards advice I swapped it for a steady-state run.  Ran 4.5 miles in 45 minutes and then my ankle started to hurt so I had to stop.  I certainly wasn't tired and could have kept going, but my PT and Dr gave me orders that I can run, but as soon as the pain comes on in the least I have to stop.  :-(  The pain goes away right after I stop running and I feel fine.  It's really annoying more than it is painful, but I'll still do what they say as long as I'm in therapy.  I'll run again on Thurs and see how it goes.

Man I love this board!!  So many people with so much experience willing to help and give advice to a noob like me!!  Thank you all!

 

2012-01-31 10:16 AM
in reply to: #4010609

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
"LOL!! I'm consistantly top 10 out of the swim in Sprint and Oly distance races. What always kills my race is the run; that's where I get passed, and passed, and passed!"

This makes me laugh because it is the exact opposite of me. MOP at best on the swim, hold my own on the bike and then I spend the whole run passing all those darn fish that got so far ahead of me. Maybe we end up at the finish line at about the same time.
2012-02-04 2:04 PM
in reply to: #4020549

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

LOL!!  Likely it does even out by the end!  Sure would be nice to be the "pass-er" and not the "pass-e" when you're tired and get to that run!  I can't complain though.  Even with my injury issues, my run is still drastically improved over this time last year.   

Scrapping the speed workouts and focusing on distance is working well for me!  I logged 15 miles this week over 3 days of running, focusing on distance and form and not worrying about pace.  Still well behind weekly run mileage I should be logging 8 weeks out from a 1/2 Iron, but I'll take what I can get right now!  5.4 miles today @ 9:30 min/mile (I'm normally 10:30)....needless to say I was shocked and very happy!!  I just felt great today, strong, no ankle pain, knee pain, or hip pain either.  I will add another 1/2 mile or so on Tues and see how that goes. 

Looking good for Galveston so far if things keep progressing for me at this pace.  I've been dilligent with my PT, trying to follow everything to a "T".  I would really love to make this 1/2 happen....I'm doing everything I can!

2012-02-04 8:02 PM
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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...
If it were me and I had the swim and bike fitness you have, I'd plan on doing that race and just seeing what happens on the run. Let's face it: for all intents and purposes, you won't have another shot at an M-dot branded 70.3 event this year, and you're 2/3 of the way there anyway training-wise two months out. I went into my first (and thus far, only) 70.3 on limited run training because I had been battling PF for like 9 months prior to that, and at the halfway point when they pulled me off the course (because the event got cancelled due to weather and everybody who wasn't done by then got pulled) I had been averaging 11:30's and was feeling good to finish the second 6.5 mile loop. Go get 'em Mrs. Bru!


2012-02-05 12:43 PM
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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

Bripod - 2012-02-04 8:02 PM If it were me and I had the swim and bike fitness you have, I'd plan on doing that race and just seeing what happens on the run. Let's face it: for all intents and purposes, you won't have another shot at an M-dot branded 70.3 event this year, and you're 2/3 of the way there anyway training-wise two months out. I went into my first (and thus far, only) 70.3 on limited run training because I had been battling PF for like 9 months prior to that, and at the halfway point when they pulled me off the course (because the event got cancelled due to weather and everybody who wasn't done by then got pulled) I had been averaging 11:30's and was feeling good to finish the second 6.5 mile loop. Go get 'em Mrs. Bru!

Thanks for the advice and for sharing your own experience!!  And I don't even think what I have is nearly as bad or as painful as PF. 

2012-02-13 1:00 PM
in reply to: #4010609

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Subject: RE: To race my first 70.3 or wait...

Signed up this weekend, I'm in!!  I'll be doing a run/walk program for the run portion (4 min run, 1 min walk).  I tried it out for 7 miles this weekend and had no ankle pain at all.  And my times really weren't that much slower than I think they would be if I could actually run the entire thing.  I calculated I should still be able to finish the run in right around 2 hours.  I'm hoping for a 6 hour total finish time; should be able to come close with what I've calcualted for my swim/bike and now the walk/run.  Walking for a minute sure is killer though.  The seconds just tick so slooooowly by, and then when I can run again I have this feeling that I have to run faster to make up time.  Just have to perfect the technique in the coming weeks. 

I'm soooo excited!!

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