General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2012-03-09 6:42 PM

User image


353
1001001002525
Subject: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

I posted about 10 days ago to the ladies with a question regarding whether atypical exercise could postpone monthly cycles. Apparently in my case it did!Wink

Upward and onward... I am now taking a few private lessons with a swim coach to pinpoint my problem areas and to learn some new skills. I am working on my deficiencies and he also taught me bilateral breathing and flip turns. After 41 yrs of breathing exclusively to one side it feels awkward and clumsy to breathe bilaterally, but even after just one practice session it seemed a bit more natural. The flip turns also were sloppily executed (I tend to somersalt sideways a bit and am leerly of flips close to the wall; which results in my feet barely clearing the wall). I only tackled these today however and realize there may be a learning curve for it to become second nature.

My question after one introductory session of both is this... does bilateral breathing and flip turns normally feel really freaky if you are "older" and have never done them before?? Will it get easier and, more importantly, will it enable me to be a better and faster swimmer?

 



Edited by Caroleena 2012-03-09 6:43 PM


2012-03-09 6:55 PM
in reply to: #4089408

User image

Member
38
25
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
It can take a while. For me it was about 10 sessions before breathing bilaterally started feeling natural. Sounds like you are doing fine if you were able to try those two new things in one workout.
2012-03-09 6:59 PM
in reply to: #4089418

User image


353
1001001002525
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
Thanks Chris! That makes me feel better right away!Wink
2012-03-09 7:05 PM
in reply to: #4089408

User image

Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

I would reply that it feel freaky when you first start doing it no matter what age you are.  It did get easier for me.

But most importantly, it's an important skill to have.  Especially during open water swimming - I've had events where the waves hit you so strongly from one side that you couldn't breathe on that side.  Then I had to go back the direction I came from.

Good job, it sounds like you're really doing well.  And I'm glad that you found an answer to the previous question!

2012-03-09 7:08 PM
in reply to: #4089427

User image


353
1001001002525
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
Thanks Red! I am really glad as well!
2012-03-09 7:29 PM
in reply to: #4089408

User image

Master
2759
20005001001002525
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
Caroleena - 2012-03-09 4:42 PM

does bilateral breathing and flip turns normally feel really freaky if you are "older" and have never done them before?? Will it get easier and, more importantly, will it enable me to be a better and faster swimmer?

 

Flip turns.... yes, they are freaky if you've never done them before and did not grow up swimming or lack alot of swimming background.  I'm practicing these myself but they are not my main focus and I practice them for 10 minutes at most after my main sets are complete.  One thing they can do is help you get more feeling through the water vs open turns.

Bilateral breathing, YES, very useful skill.  It allows you to balance your stroke and has long run benefits.  It also allows you to see where your competition is and slows down your breathing if you notice a bit of hyperventilating with breathing every other stroke on one side during a race.  IMO, focus on this more than flip turns. =)



2012-03-09 7:56 PM
in reply to: #4089448

User image


353
1001001002525
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
kloofyroland - 2012-03-09 8:29 PM
Caroleena - 2012-03-09 4:42 PM

does bilateral breathing and flip turns normally feel really freaky if you are "older" and have never done them before?? Will it get easier and, more importantly, will it enable me to be a better and faster swimmer?

 

Flip turns.... yes, they are freaky if you've never done them before and did not grow up swimming or lack alot of swimming background.  I'm practicing these myself but they are not my main focus and I practice them for 10 minutes at most after my main sets are complete.  One thing they can do is help you get more feeling through the water vs open turns.

Bilateral breathing, YES, very useful skill.  It allows you to balance your stroke and has long run benefits.  It also allows you to see where your competition is and slows down your breathing if you notice a bit of hyperventilating with breathing every other stroke on one side during a race.  IMO, focus on this more than flip turns. =)

I was really encouraged with the bilateral breathing... was always worried I would burn out my shoulder just turning to one side all the time. Now it feels more balanced. But I gotta admit that for most of the session I was inhaling water before I had totally swiveled my head to the unused side. Felt like a real dork swimming for the first time!

2012-03-09 8:03 PM
in reply to: #4089468

User image

Master
2759
20005001001002525
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
That's great!  If I may suggest, you can do practice on your favorite side breathing every other stroke on one length, then swim on the return length on the side you don't like.  It's a brute force method to get your more keen to the side you're not used to breathing from.  Perhaps do 4 laps that way then do the next 4 bilateral and see how it feels? =)
2012-03-09 8:08 PM
in reply to: #4089473

User image


353
1001001002525
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

thanks I will try that next time I swim

 

2012-03-09 8:53 PM
in reply to: #4089408

User image

Member
48
25
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

I'd second the fact that was mentioned about stroke balance and not burning out your shoulder on one side. The bilateral breathing in open water is negligible for me personally, and if it's really crowded in the swim, your probably going to find that you go to your natural side just out of habit. In fact I find when racing I'll swim primarily to my natural side, but I train bilaterally very often. Definitely work it for training at least. You'll also find that your stroke will smooth out with the extra half length between breaths. You glide much better with your head down than breaking the surface to breath.

Good luck.

2012-03-09 9:08 PM
in reply to: #4089532

User image


353
1001001002525
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns
mwholey - 2012-03-09 9:53 PM

I'd second the fact that was mentioned about stroke balance and not burning out your shoulder on one side. The bilateral breathing in open water is negligible for me personally, and if it's really crowded in the swim, your probably going to find that you go to your natural side just out of habit. In fact I find when racing I'll swim primarily to my natural side, but I train bilaterally very often. Definitely work it for training at least. You'll also find that your stroke will smooth out with the extra half length between breaths. You glide much better with your head down than breaking the surface to breath.

 

Hi Mark,

I already breathe every 4 strokes and with bilateral today I was breathing every 5. But it felt ok. I guess for race efforts I would do every 3 if bilaterally breathing...



2012-03-10 7:48 AM
in reply to: #4089408

User image

Extreme Veteran
516
500
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

Hi Caroleena,

I may get in trouble here but I so don't care if I do flip turns in the pool, my time is too precious to screw around with that. Haven't come upon a wall in a race yet. I do just fine on the swim portion of races and I chalk it up to just swimming and trying to improve my technique during training.

I do however believe bilateral breathing is a very good thing to get comfortable with, if nothing else just to see who all is around you when you're racing. 

Patsy

2012-03-10 7:17 PM
in reply to: #4089762

Member
34
25
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

Hi,

Bilateral breathing is essential to open water swimming!

Firstly, you will swim straighter because your stroke, muscle use and build will be more even on both sides. Swimming straighter will allow you to sight less offten. Breathing to one side you will always have a tendency to drift to the side you are not breathing. Try closing your eyes and swimming down the lane bilaterally breathing and then to one side and see what happens. Swimming straight in the pool will help you to swim straighter in open water.

Breathing to one side can also induce injuries and over breathing. Being stronger on one side and never balancing out by going to the other side, you will have a tendency to tilt and pull stronger with the arm the you breathe to. If your stroke technique is incorrect, it will cause discomfort and for some, neck, lower back pain and a straight arm stroke with on the side you do not breathe to.

Bilateral breathing also give you to opportunity to breathe whenever you want. If you take in a mouth full of water when breathing to the left, you can immediately breathe to the right without skipping a beat.

You can also see all around you and sight when you need to instead of waiting for your stroke to come around. IE one arm then the other.

Too much breathing also slows you down no matter how you slice the pie. Keeping your head in streamline longer will cut time and energy use down and make you more efficient.

Flip turns also make your time quicker and if you do any sort of time trials for your race distance, it will be more accurate as opposed to stopping and turning around. Coming to a complete stop and simply turning around will cause you to lose all momentum and you are essentially starting from scratch each time you do so. It also allows you to push off the wall quicker and get back up to your swimming speed faster. Touch turns can be equally as quick, but they require a lot of practice and understanding of how to not pull your body out of the water. They are essentially, but are a helpful too when swimming lots of laps!

Sounds like you're doing a great job and I commend you for taking swim lessons!! Not a lof people are willing to do this!

If flip turns feel a bit awkward, try not twisting as your flipping over. Rather flip, put your feet on the wall (you should see the wall and be in a position to push off on your back), flip to your stomach and then push off. This type of mechanical movement will allow you to gain more body control and it will also slow your flip turn down until you get used to the movement.

Good luck! Message me if you have any questions!! And great job!!



Edited by katieh816 2012-03-10 7:22 PM
2012-03-11 5:12 AM
in reply to: #4089408

User image

Master
8247
50002000100010010025
Eugene, Oregon
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

Glad to hear the "personal cycle" issue wasn't anything else!  You can always try the "living in the tropics" cure to regulate yourself!  Yes, it takes time to get used to bilateral breathing. I swam competitively as a child and teen and managed to swim close to 20 minutes (Dad claims just under, but I can't find that result--maybe wishful thinking?) for the 1500m breathing only on one side. I have my own distinctive pattern of 2-2-4. It never caused a problem with pool swimming for me, but after a few tris when I became quite badly off course due to not sighting/swimming straight, I worked with a coach on bilateral breathing last year. It now feels natural in open water (ocean), not really in a pool, but I can do it. I try to do at least some of each practice set with bilateral breathing. I find it easier with a buoy or flippers--I'm not naturally that buoyant so it seems salt water, wetsuit, or pool toys help me focus more on technique while staying balanced in the water. It IS an important skill for OWS. I do it when I need in races or OWS practice to for sighting or avoiding water in the face when breathing; otherwise I do what's comfortable. It also helps balance your stroke and avoid overuse injuries; probably mainly an issue if you're prone to shoulder problems and/or doing high-volume swim training. Hard to see that it improves speed--many world-class distance swimmers breathe mainly to one side!

As for flip turns, they take time to learn. As a kid (just as now), I was a first-class klutz and my first swim coach had to teach me by physically flipping me over and over. Once you really learn them though, you won't forget. Pretty pointless for OWS but if you can do them well, they will speed you up in the pool and make you more welcome in the faster lanes of master's swim practice.

2012-03-12 11:41 AM
in reply to: #4090513

Member
34
25
Subject: RE: Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns

Yes, while many world class swimmers do breathe one way, you must also remember that they are world class swimmers.

They are much more efficient and they have learned to breathe in a way that is quick and doesn't break their streamline as much as someone just learning or hasn't swam a lot. They are also conditioned to swimming long distances and have a stroke technique that is not effected by only learning to breathe one way.

As a coach who works with a lot of adults, most adults who have never learned to breathe both ways have an off centered stroke and the side they do not breathe too is often ignored as far as technique and strength.

Bilateral breathing helps to fix those issues and and when a person masters the art of an efficient stroke, then they may move on and do what they like.

I find it interesting that many people look at YouTube videos of Michael Phelps swimming or some other Olympian and try to mimic what they are doing as far as flip turns or stroke technique. Please remember they have mastered their strokes, hence being in the Olympics, and have moved on to finding ways to cut time, whether it be in their turns or even changing their own technique. They are excellent swimmers, but they have worked very hard to develop their skills and spent a lot of time training.



Edited by katieh816 2012-03-12 11:46 AM
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Personal update, also ? about bilateral breathing and flip turns Rss Feed