Bike gains without sacrificing running fitness

First (pun intended), let me say that I  have a pretty low opinion of the FIRST program.  If that make me a crazy person in your view, then ignore the rest of what I say.  I'm glad you've made some gains and have (so far) managed to avoid injury.

The answer to your question really depends on how close you are to maximizing your capacity to train.  (Whether that capacity is determined, for you, by time, motivation, or your physical ability to keep training doesn't much matter.)  The closer you are currently to capacity, the more adding bike fitness will likely detract from run fitness.

Another way to put the point is this:  If the bike training is going to compromise run training in any way, run fitness is going to suffer.   There's no way around that reality.  And serious bike training will reduce your ability to train optimally for the run.  That's the nature of the sport.

and there's the question.  is it sacrificing fitness by doing serious bike training?  i have made huge gains on the bike this year, while my run hasn't improved too much since i started seriously spending time on my bike.  i'm not sure that has anything to do with my time in the saddle, but rather my dedication (lack of) to my weekly run mileage and consistently increasing it.

im not sure that bike gains alone mean that you lose anything on the run.  would it be optimal run-wise to not bike train and only run? definitely.  i'm not sure that one negates the other though as long as you do them in parallel.

After doing some research I tried FIRST program for a while 3-4yrs ago.  I know there is scientific research to support it & many runners swear by it.  But IMHO it works for those whose bodies hold up to the continual intense sessions.  I gave up 'cause I felt ongoing little nagging injuries. Went back to traditional higher freq/mileage approach.

Re B vs R- My "personal struggle" has been in much slower running.  In past my run never improved by going harder on the bike.
Last couple years I upped my run vol significantly (>1k mi/yr) & my slow running has improved without losing bike speed. Dropped my bike vol from 5+k mi/yr to 2-3k mi/yr while maintaining 21+mph bike (sprint-Oly distances).   So guess I'd rather have your "problem" of running sub-20 5k (vs my PB of 23+).    My guess is your bike speed will improve significantly with refinements in technique (pedal stroke, bike fit, aero position, etc.). IIRC Jack Daniels has said solid run fitness can be maintained on 3 runs/wk.  I'm no coach but maybe you could drop a bit in run intensity & add intervals to your bike sessions???

I'm not sure where you are at in your training/race schedule, but when you start planning for next year, consider scheduling a bike focus block.  An example, this year I had a run race in May and my 'A' race in early July.  So I spent late April into May focused on maximizing my run while maintaining my bike/swim fitness.  Then in June, I switched it up and spent a considerable time on the bike to maximize my bike fitness while maintaining what I built in running in May.  It worked for me.

Alternatively, I've also dropped the the bike and swim completely during the fall to just do run races.  Sure I lose that fitnesss, but it comes back when I base build the following year.  You could do the opposite and focus on the bike exclusively.  Find some local fall crits/TT's, and emerse yourself in the local bike racing scene.

To clarify:  By saying that run fitness will suffer (if bike training compromises run training), I didn't mean that run fitness will (necessarily) get worse.  I meant that it will not be as good as it could have been.  If you are not currently at maximum training capacity (and most of us are not), then it is possible to improve both bike and run.  I took the general spirit of the question to be "if I focus on biking, will doing so have an affect on my ability to improve on the run?"  Answer:  yes.

I think age figures in.  My son has a sub 17:00 5K at 14.....and he can easily hold 23-25 mph for sprint distance on the bike, depending on the course.  As he starts his first XC season, he destroys his competitors on the hills in a run......I give credit to his bike training for much of that.

For the rest of us, I agree with your posts.....but for the youngsters.....ALL training helps build the engine. 

Absolutely.  Good point.  Aerobic development takes time.  This is why 35 year olds win IM races.  Anything (within reason) that a youngster does to get ahead of that curve is going to help.

I will say I am an advocate of the FIRST program, and have used it myself. I think it can be a good tool in the hands of the right user.

That aside, I think it's a SPECIFIC tool--meaning one you use to prepare for a particular distance race down the line. It isn't a more general approach or a maintenance program. I'm not saying that if you are tri training you need to abandon your weekly fartlek or tempo run, just that you can scale back the pace a bit from FIRST's guidelines. You have to make some adjustments in focus when you are trying to train for more than one sport.

Decide what your goals are--do you have a race or three in particular that you are working toward, or are you just "training" about, and want to sign up for whatever suits yoru fancy at any given time? That decision, for one, will help you structure your plan better. If you have a goal race in mind, then yes, a tri plan will probably help you in that regard (largely b/c it will give you more bike volume, and some more structure).

Personally, I am in the latter camp (the just mill about and be relatively in shape in case I want to race camp), but I will say I am racing faster now (both in stand-alone running races and in multiport events) than I was 10 years ago, even though I am running less and with less intensity. I give partial credit to the fact that I ride way more than I did years ago.

It's like tuning a stereo--you have all these knobs and dials, and you have to find which ones to turn up and which ones to turn down in the right combination of things to get the sound/results that work for you in the event you want them in.

I don't know if this helps but when I started doing triathlons over 2 years ago, I had to learn 3 new sports and didn't have a background in any of them.  My first year, the bike was my strength (I averaged over 22mph on my first sprint tri on a road bike - granted the course was absolutely flat with few turns), and I had a decent run (about a 7:40/mile pace), and a horrible swim (3min/100m).  I did 3 more sprints and an Olympic and decided that on my 2nd year, I would emphasize the run a little bit more and just try to maintain bike fitness, while doing what I  can on the swim (I was so bad that I had lots of room to improve just working on technique and not necessarily spending hours in the pool).  I continued to get faster in total time across my races (as well as where I finished - even started getting AG podiums in the small local sprints).

In my 3rd year, I am continuing to focus on the run (I still think that's the most important part), as I also signed up for my first marathon and have limited my cycling to 3x/week (1 bike trainer workout and 2 group rides- one hard and about 1.5 hrs, and the other fairly aerobic that takes over 3 hrs).  Interestingly enough, that 3x/week has allowed me to keep my bike fitness.  I set a 5K PR in my last race - during a sprint tri! (20:43) and consistently swim 2-3x/week for about 35-40 minutes and also continue to improve on the swim (1:40/100yds nowadays which puts me MOP).  I also notice that my aerobic fitness is pretty good (my HR is pretty low even on the bike for similar efforts - it's just my legs that give out first).

Next year, I will face a similar challenge to what you face as I'm looking to focus on the bike and maintain my run fitness. I think I can do it on my current schedule as long as I don't have to do long runs over 10-12 miles!

I agree with the above post that your running gains will not be as significant as they would be if you focused specifically on improving your 5k times.  However, I think cross-training across the 3 disciplines can easily improve your run fitness. 

I came from a running background, having progressed from 5Ks to ultras.  When I initally made the move to tri's, I noticed a regression in my running times.  However, three years later, not only has my overall fitness improved but I've noticed significant gains in my runnning.  This year alone I've set running PRs in the 5K and HM distance, despite not doing any "run-only" training.  Now, part of this is due to volume - in training for IM, my run volume was very similar, if slightly short, of the volume I would have put in for a stand-alone mary, so I guess it makes sense that all of the extra time spent training for s/b would have an additional benefit.  However, I noticed running gains even before training for IM distance.

So, based on my experience, I think you can easily see maintenance and perhaps improvement in your 5K times by adopting training across all 3 disciplines.

I really appreciate everyone's replies.  It definitely gives me some hope.  I really don't care too much about improving on the run over the next year (but I wouldn't be disappointed if it happened).  If I could make significant gains on the bike, I'd be more than happy with just maintaining my run (in fact, I'd be ecstatic).  I run about 20 miles per week on the FIRST program and bike about 40-45 miles per week on the off days without any intervals or hard efforts.  I'm a 40yo and have a family, but I would be able to devote some more time overall.

I'm really not sold on a particular training plan.  I've never used a tri program.  I started off using runner's world "smart coach" which worked well and the FIRST has worked fairly well too ... it's just torture, but I don't mind the efforts as long as they are paying off.

My goals for the year are to see if I can improve my 5K times from the spring this fall.  Then, I'd like to really focus on getting better at the bike so that during the next tri I'm stronger (again, don't care about running gains, just don't want to lose significant speed).

Would any of you be willing to recommend a training plan that you think would help my bike and maintain my run?  My plan is to keep the distances relatively short ... sprint to olympic.

This is easy. First, run 5-6 days/wk. Bike 3 times/wk. Each bike workout should be very hard and very focused. Each run should be aerobic and easy, except for one. Make it a long run, tempo run, interval run, long run with intervals, whatever you can do or whatever fits with your schedule and change it up week to week. Or skip it if it is too much and just run aerobically and often. Running fitness is very volume dependent and quite easy to maintain a general high level of fitness if you do it often enough. Biking requires intensity.

Another thought - and it really depends on how your body responds - is to do your hard bike workout 2nd on the same day as your run workout (run morning, bike evening).  Then the in-between day should be whatever light recovery the FIRST program recommends.

You'll have fatigue when you start those bike rides but you can still push hard and get something out of them.  There's not much risk of injury biking on tired legs.