9+min/mile in run training, 7:20/mile on race day

Wow...have you done any other running races or tris?  That seems like a huge disparity from training to racing.  Either way, congrats on a smoking run time.

Yes, I've run a few marathons in the past, but my fastest standalone half marathon pace is about a 7:10/mile and that was a few years ago before a toddler derailed my training completely.

I actually did an Oly race 4 months ago and ran the same exact pace that I did for the HIM yesterday, so I definitely improved since then.

I'd also clarify that I wasn't sandbagging those 9min/miles. Those were real efforts on my part - I actually don't think I could have run any faster without giving up volume. I was training a lot though - with 130-140mpw on the bike and 35-40mpw on the run, my legs were basically fried all the time since I've never trained close to this much before. Still, these were almost entirely Z2 efforts - the legs were the limiter, not the cardio. Even a z1 effort was hard at times given the dead legs!

Same thing happened on the bike as well. My fastest nondrafting 60 mile training ride, done at a faster-than-race pace effort was 18mph, with about 2500ft climbing total. On race day, I was 20.7mph with 2200ft climbing over 56 miles despite an overall easier effort.

So at least for me, tapering off fried legs helped a lot.

Asalzwed - 2012-09-11 12:00 AM "Run lots. Mostly easy, sometimes hard." Emphasis on the mostly easy.

X2 This

Actually not too dramatic a taper. I still trained maximally hard until the final week before race day, then my last ride was a still harder than race effort 37 mile bike. The rest of the week I cut training volume to about 2/3rds the normal bike/run volume (left swim the same since it's so low already) but still went hard on them to keep intensity, which meant faster than race pace intervals on the run and bike. 2 days before race day, only did mellow swims, no B/R.

Pretty much used the well-oft said philosophy of 'reduce volume but keep intensity' one week out from race day. I've found that I actually lose sharpness if I cut down training 7+ days out.

I'd still emphasize that this sort of improvement from tapering assumes that you're doing hi-volume training for yourself. 40mpw + 130mpw biking for me is a LOT. I never had fresh legs, ever, doing training, and in peak volume, was so tired I couldn't possibly run/bike faster than low Z2. For the entire training cycle, Z3 was my hard interval zone, and high zone 3 was pretty much all-out.

Then on race day, I biked at hi Z2 and ran at mid Z3+. It was the legs that were limiting, not the cardio, in training so once the legs were back, I could push the cardio.

I'm hoping that with my stronger legs, I can push both cardio  + legs the next go around.

cpsdad - 2012-09-11 6:38 AM

Asalzwed - 2012-09-11 12:00 AM "Run lots. Mostly easy, sometimes hard." Emphasis on the mostly easy.

X2 This

That's what I've been reading.  And so far it's been working.  What I've been reading says your LSD pace should be 60-90 seconds/mile (some seem to say up to 2 min/mile) slower than your race pace.

I'm slow, but this is the first year I've really worked on it.  I've run before, but maybe 3 times a week, not far and definitely not fast or for many consecutive weeks/months.  I've been doing 9:45-10 min/mile and put in an 8:27 min/mile a few weeks ago in a 5K; PR for me.  In the past week I've stepped it up a little, 9:30-9:45 min/mile as I'm aiming for 8:15 min/mile in the next 5K.  Still not fast, but faster, which is the goal.

Thanks!  I've noticed something similar lately (legs being a limiter, not cardio) - especially on the bike (probably because of my increased run volume - I am also hitting around 40 miles per week right now on my running, while keeping around 120 miles per week on the bike).  I am doing a short taper for a sprint race this weekend then will do another high volume 2 weeks before another taper for an oly to end my tri season.  I'm glad to hear that I may be able to see an improvement when I get to race day!

You trained and tapered properly, and also had a very good day. That's how it's supposed to be, so enjoy it!

I've done a bunch of marathons and it's important to keep those long runs well below your race pace. Save the speed for shorter tempo runs and interval training.

That's how you stay healthy and get to run the fast race.

Great job, BTW.

That's how it's supposed to be actually... I can never understand people that run their training runs at race pace. It a good way to get injured.

Most folks who know something about training and racing don't recommend this.

Although I do agree that "lots of folks" believe this.  

Check out the McMillan calculator and punch in your race time.  I suspect he will tell you that you are running the correct paces in training.  http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/calcUsage/calculate

I train about 1.5 min/mile slower than my pretty consistent race pace. That range is wide from a 1-mile pace to a half marathon pace, as well. 

Since we are talking about pace, when you look at your training or race results, do you include a walk/run strategy?  I miss my marathon days when I can just worry about a consistant pace, but with a walk/run strategy, like 4/1, you have run faster than normal to account for the 1 minute of slowness during walking. 

+1

There is a lot of different "paces" as McMillan (and other training philosophies) indicate.  For example, the Hal Higdon plans will have some "pace runs" which are done at race pace (but not anywhere close to race distance).  However, majority of the run volume is definitely at 'long slow distance pace' or ' easy pace'.  For example, I average around 8:45-8:50 over all runs in the past 5 months which is right in my McMillan easy run pace range.  Depending on the "race" I have a different "race pace" and a different amount of time that I would run that pace.  My race pace for 5K (around 6:40) is different from my marathon race pace (around 7:50).

For example, if my next race was a 5K distance, I definitely try to run that pace or faster at some point in my training - just not a whole lot of it (usually in the intervals or tempo runs).  However, for my current marathon training, I'm running every third long run where I spend at least 25% of that run at my target marathon pace. 

Anyway, still good info on what kind of boost one can get from a proper taper and good race execution. In my case, I'm looking for something similar, along with the lower temps in 8 weeks!

Yes, I guess I meant that the plan for a HIM I've seen a lot espouse is to run as SLOW as your training paces for the HM. Not train as FAST as your race pace.

I've also used the Mcmillan calcs for running in the past, but I don't have any experience using it for HIM training, or triathlon training in general. It works great for a pure runner, but once you start throwing the bikes in there, I don't think you can just use it straight up. At least for me, the impact of the bike was significant enough to slow me from my Mcmillan paces (but not by a huge amount) in training.

I guess it's splitting hairs when you say race as slow as training versus train as fast as racing.  Still the same number.  But either way, I have never heard anyone knowledgeable say you should commence any sort of running race at your training pace.  I like to run a running race at a pace that FEELS easy, as easy as a training run, but with the training and taper the pace itself is faster.  Especially at a longer distance running race.

In my experience, the training paces for long/endurance runs recommended by McMillan are VERY broad and can definitely be looked at for all sorts of training.   Yes, on race day, my tri runs are slower than standalone runs, but the training paces can still be used.  I usually plug in my standalone race times to get my training paces for all types of racing.  It jives with what I learned when using heart rate training with a coach.