General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Shaving 2:30 in 2 months? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2012-10-23 7:42 PM

User image

Extreme Veteran
544
50025
Shawboro, NC
Subject: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

If you read my post "??Five kilometer, six PRs!!," you'll know that I recently ran my fastest 5K to date at 27:21. 

Well, coming up, on 31Dec2012, assuming the world does not end 10 days prior, there's a 5K race called "Beat the Ball 5K."  As the name would lead you to belive, it's a race against the ball in Time's Square.  The race starts at 2335.  There's a special, unannounced reward to anyone who "beats the ball," and finishes the race before 2012 ends. 

Aside from pounding the pavement for more mileage (which I will do) and losing weight (some will come off, but not much), what are some suggested ways I could cut 2:30+ off my time to get the "special reward?"



2012-10-23 7:49 PM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Extreme Veteran
544
50025
Shawboro, NC
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
More info on RaceIt!
2012-10-23 8:07 PM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Veteran
320
100100100
Littleton, CO
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

I am working on improving my times as well and sadly the best and most information I get is to increase mileage and be consistent with it. No special pill no interval or tempo run is going to help as much as consistent increased mileage.

Also as more will say as well try not to increase more than 10% a week listen to your body etc. It seems as though you know most of this just will have to put it in play also as you stated the weight is big as well.

2:30 is a big goal in that time frame are you training by heart rate? I have managed to knock off about 6 minutes on mine in the last year but I have also lost a small human haha

2012-10-23 8:48 PM
in reply to: #4466320

User image

Extreme Veteran
544
50025
Shawboro, NC
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
Exige - 2012-10-23 9:07 PM

I am working on improving my times as well and sadly the best and most information I get is to increase mileage and be consistent with it. No special pill no interval or tempo run is going to help as much as consistent increased mileage.

Also as more will say as well try not to increase more than 10% a week listen to your body etc. It seems as though you know most of this just will have to put it in play also as you stated the weight is big as well.

2:30 is a big goal in that time frame are you training by heart rate? I have managed to knock off about 6 minutes on mine in the last year but I have also lost a small human haha

I got back on the triathlon horse in June of this year.  I've been hovering near 235lbs th ewhole time.  I started running on a consistent basis in September.  Up to that point, I did not a lot of running (about 45 miles total from June to September when I did the OBX Oly), not much riding (as in about 20 miles total in the same time frame), and GOBS AND GOBS AND GOBS of swimming.  My mindset was that if I got myt swim to a good place, the bike and run would follow suit.  My bike is never horrible, easily MOP level, so I didn't focus on it AT ALL.  The riding I did was to get my bike tuned up after a LONG, LONG hiatus.

Between July and now, I managed to chop 10 minutes off my run time.  I think I can knock off another 2.5 minutes.  I know that I need to put in the mileage to get that done.  I was just looking for pointers for something above and beyond.  If I tackle this, the effort to do it will be made.



Edited by SpeedKnight 2012-10-23 8:53 PM
2012-10-23 9:46 PM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Elite
5145
500010025
Cleveland
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

Kip Litton Knows.

 

 

Seriously, there is no magic bullet.  Run more - mostly slow, sometimes fast.  Build your mileage.  Run every day from now until then - you WILL see improvement.

2012-10-23 10:05 PM
in reply to: #4466426

User image

Master
2236
200010010025
Denison Texas
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
cgregg - 2012-10-23 9:46 PM

Kip Litton Knows.

 

 

Seriously, there is no magic bullet.  Run more - mostly slow, sometimes fast.  Build your mileage.  Run every day from now until then - you WILL see improvement.

This^^^^

-you could also, with some caution, calculate the pace you need to hold for that finish and do some casual intervals at that pace, maybe set a treadmill at that pace and hold it for gradually longer intervals, 1x per week. Not as rigorous as "speed work" but gets you familiar with the required pace



2012-10-23 10:39 PM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Master
2563
20005002525
University Park, MD
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

Sorry, it's not sexy, but it really works. Run frequently, and lean up. Lose a pound a week (500 cal/day) between now and the race, and that's up to a minute closer to your target already. Given how little running you've done in the past few months, you really stand to gain a lot by just getting out there and running on a daily basis.

Look up the BarryP 3-2-1 plan. Elegant in its simplicity. 

Good luck.

2012-10-23 11:13 PM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Elite
3488
20001000100100100100252525
Lakewood, CO
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
no insights other than what is listed above, but just had to comment, that is a fantastic race concept!!!
2012-10-24 12:13 AM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Veteran
231
10010025
Coeur d' Alene, ID
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

From looking at your logs, 1 mile and 2 miles at each run is not going to cut it. the rest of this week and next week run 4 miles  6 days. The next week run 4 miles 5 days. The next week run 5 miles 4 days and the next week 6 miles 4 days. after you get to 6 miles for 1 week then pick one day each week and run the 6 miles hard and check your time. run the one day hard that same day each week till Dec 26. the other days just run the miles easy, just get them in.Good luck.

Dont for get to PM me and tell me how you did. Hope this helps.



Edited by mark.evans 2012-10-24 12:15 AM
2012-10-24 3:16 AM
in reply to: #4466520

User image

Pro
6011
50001000
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
mark.evans - 2012-10-24 1:13 AM

From looking at your logs, 1 mile and 2 miles at each run is not going to cut it. the rest of this week and next week run 4 miles  6 days. The next week run 4 miles 5 days. The next week run 5 miles 4 days and the next week 6 miles 4 days. after you get to 6 miles for 1 week then pick one day each week and run the 6 miles hard and check your time. run the one day hard that same day each week till Dec 26. the other days just run the miles easy, just get them in.Good luck.

Dont for get to PM me and tell me how you did. Hope this helps.

I'll apologize in advance for my harsh response, but, no. PLEASE don't do this! The OP's logs indicate he has run a total of 18 miles in the last 2 months combined, and this advice would have him do 24 miles in the next week, then only 5 weeks later increase the intensity drastically for 25% of weekly volume. This isn't a good idea unless the goal is an injury. Instead, take the general advice given in this thread about running frequently and building weekly volume gradually from current levels.

Edited by TriMyBest 2012-10-24 3:20 AM
2012-10-24 5:07 AM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Extreme Veteran
544
50025
Shawboro, NC
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

Thanks for all the info.  I know my logs show very low mileage.  I'm getting back into this triathlon thing after 4 years on hiatus.
I like the suggestion of weight loss, but I know how my body responds to ramping training and calorie defecit.  I will burn fat, no two ways about that.  In the time frame I have to this race, as the fat sheds it will be replaced with muscle, almost in equal amounts.  I doubt very much that I could lose any appreciable weight in the time I have.

My course is clear... ramp up my mileage.  I'll push myself to get to the pace I need.  I think I can do this.  BT will "hear" about it either way.  Any improvement will be considered success.  Beating the 25 minute mark will be considered victory.



2012-10-24 7:05 AM
in reply to: #4466572

User image

Elite
5145
500010025
Cleveland
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
SpeedKnight - 2012-10-24 6:07 AM

My course is clear... ramp up my mileage. I'll push myself to get to the pace I need. I think I can do this.  BT will "hear" about it either way.  Any improvement will be considered success.  Beating the 25 minute mark will be considered victory.

 

No, don't, unless injury is what you're hoping to show everyone.  Run lots - mostly easy, some fast.

On most of your runs, if you cannot talk in a conversational tone, you are running too hard and need to slow it down.

On the fast runs, for now, you still shouldn't even be hitting your race pace... you just want your level of effort to have you breathing hard.

 

Your only goal right now - whether you realize it or not - is to build your aerobic base, and nothing more.  It may seem counter-intuitive, but running slow WILL make you faster because your aerobic capacity will increase.

 

Leave this thread and scroll down, there is a 30 runs in 30 days thread.... go in there, start doing what everyone in there is doing.

Run easy, even if you cannot do more than 2 miles each day.  And quite seriously - if you cannot do 2 miles at an easy pace each day right now, you stand zero chance of shaving that much time in such a short time frame.

2012-10-24 10:58 AM
in reply to: #4466291


25
25
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?

You're getting a lot of training advice so I thought I'd give you a little tactical advice. There are plenty of things you can do to get 'free speed' at a race. 

1. Start up front. You should start as close to the front as you are comfortable doing. Sure, some people are going to be annoyed having to pass you. I wouldn't do this at every race, but for an "A" race it makes sense to avoid having to pass 1,000 people who started on the line and flamed out in 100 yards. Also, it sounds like the award for finishing is based on gun time and not chip time so you definitely want to be off and running ASAP. 

2. Water stops are time suck. For a 5K I rarely use the water stops at all. If you must take on fluids during the race you should carry a small bottle. Failing that, always swing wide of the front of the stop and then hit the last table. There is always a huge crowd at the front of the table and you can usually get water at the last table quickly and be on your way. The time savings/water stop has the potential to be huge.

3. Squeeze the recovery. If you must slow down during the race try just jog and see if that helps. If you walk, do so for the shortest time possible. 

With the training you are doing + being a little smarter in the race you have an excellent chance of meeting your goal. 

Good luck and stay positive. 

-Joey
www.RocketScienceSports.com 

2012-10-24 9:18 PM
in reply to: #4467019

User image

Extreme Veteran
544
50025
Shawboro, NC
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
cgregg - 2012-10-24 8:05 AM

Leave this thread and scroll down, there is a 30 runs in 30 days thread.... go in there, start doing what everyone in there is doing.

Run easy, even if you cannot do more than 2 miles each day.  And quite seriously - if you cannot do 2 miles at an easy pace each day right now, you stand zero chance of shaving that much time in such a short time frame.



I'll look in there.  I can't do the 30 runs in 30 days, unless I run twice on one day of four.  I'm currently in a rotation where I have a 24+ hour shift every 4th day.  Including weekends.  So I absolutely cannot run on every 4th day.  I will see what sort of pointers to take from them.

As for my distances, I'm going to make more time for longer runs, and will be doing some treadmill time during our lunch/PT periods at work.  I'll just have to cut back on my swimming.  I have the ability to do a 2+ mile run.  What I've been lacking is time.

 

rss_joey - 2012-10-24 11:58 AM

1. Start up front. You should start as close to the front as you are comfortable doing. Sure, some people are going to be annoyed having to pass you. I wouldn't do this at every race, but for an "A" race it makes sense to avoid having to pass 1,000 people who started on the line and flamed out in 100 yards. Also, it sounds like the award for finishing is based on gun time and not chip time so you definitely want to be off and running ASAP.

I did just that this past Saturday.  I ended up with 6 PRs.  This is some advice I will surely take.

rss_joey - 2012-10-24 11:58 AM

2. Water stops are time suck. For a 5K I rarely use the water stops at all. If you must take on fluids during the race you should carry a small bottle. Failing that, always swing wide of the front of the stop and then hit the last table. There is always a huge crowd at the front of the table and you can usually get water at the last table quickly and be on your way. The time savings/water stop has the potential to be huge.

For a 5K, I will hydrate decently well before hand.  I'll take a leak right before the race, then won't hydrate until I've finished the race.  I do this for EVERY 5K I run.  I'll bypass any water stops all together.

rss_joey - 2012-10-24 11:58 AM


3. Squeeze the recovery.
 If you must slow down during the race try just jog and see if that helps. If you walk, do so for the shortest time possible. 

With the training you are doing + being a little smarter in the race you have an excellent chance of meeting your goal. 

Good luck and stay positive.

This weekend, I was past the turnaround point before I felt like I had to walk.  I counted my left foot coming down... 50 left foot drops, back to the run.  I walked 3 times... one time went the full count of 50.  The other 2 were interrupted because I refused to let someone pass me.  :-)

Thanks for the advice!
2012-10-24 10:00 PM
in reply to: #4468090

User image

Master
2563
20005002525
University Park, MD
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
SpeedKnight - 2012-10-24 10:18 PM 
rss_joey - 2012-10-24 11:58 AM

1. Start up front. You should start as close to the front as you are comfortable doing. Sure, some people are going to be annoyed having to pass you. I wouldn't do this at every race, but for an "A" race it makes sense to avoid having to pass 1,000 people who started on the line and flamed out in 100 yards. Also, it sounds like the award for finishing is based on gun time and not chip time so you definitely want to be off and running ASAP.

I did just that this past Saturday.  I ended up with 6 PRs.  This is some advice I will surely take.

Please folks don't do this. Everything works much better when people seed themselves appropriately on the start line. 16-minute runners don't need to be trampling 25-minute runners at the start, and the 25-minute runners are better off racing with other 25-minute runners. If everybody decided that they wanted to start on the front row, we'd have a terrible mess.

2012-10-24 10:04 PM
in reply to: #4468134

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
colinphillips - 2012-10-24 10:00 PM
SpeedKnight - 2012-10-24 10:18 PM 
rss_joey - 2012-10-24 11:58 AM

1. Start up front. You should start as close to the front as you are comfortable doing. Sure, some people are going to be annoyed having to pass you. I wouldn't do this at every race, but for an "A" race it makes sense to avoid having to pass 1,000 people who started on the line and flamed out in 100 yards. Also, it sounds like the award for finishing is based on gun time and not chip time so you definitely want to be off and running ASAP.

I did just that this past Saturday.  I ended up with 6 PRs.  This is some advice I will surely take.

Please folks don't do this. Everything works much better when people seed themselves appropriately on the start line. 16-minute runners don't need to be trampling 25-minute runners at the start, and the 25-minute runners are better off racing with other 25-minute runners. If everybody decided that they wanted to start on the front row, we'd have a terrible mess.

Agreed. Seed yourself as best you can. Ask some people around what they think they'll do if you need. It works fine when people are sort of close.



2012-10-24 11:26 PM
in reply to: #4468141

User image

Champion
7595
50002000500252525
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
brigby1 - 2012-10-24 11:04 PM
colinphillips - 2012-10-24 10:00 PM
SpeedKnight - 2012-10-24 10:18 PM 
rss_joey - 2012-10-24 11:58 AM

1. Start up front. You should start as close to the front as you are comfortable doing. Sure, some people are going to be annoyed having to pass you. I wouldn't do this at every race, but for an "A" race it makes sense to avoid having to pass 1,000 people who started on the line and flamed out in 100 yards. Also, it sounds like the award for finishing is based on gun time and not chip time so you definitely want to be off and running ASAP.

I did just that this past Saturday.  I ended up with 6 PRs.  This is some advice I will surely take.

Please folks don't do this. Everything works much better when people seed themselves appropriately on the start line. 16-minute runners don't need to be trampling 25-minute runners at the start, and the 25-minute runners are better off racing with other 25-minute runners. If everybody decided that they wanted to start on the front row, we'd have a terrible mess.

Agreed. Seed yourself as best you can. Ask some people around what they think they'll do if you need. It works fine when people are sort of close.

x3.  Do you really want people cutting round you for the first mile of the race?  This situation is good for no one.  Seeding yourself approximately correctly means that you will be much more comfortable and can focus on running your race rather than getting bumped, cut off, etc., by people running 2-4 minutes per mile faster than you.

2012-10-25 4:18 AM
in reply to: #4466291

User image

Extreme Veteran
544
50025
Shawboro, NC
Subject: RE: Shaving 2:30 in 2 months?
The suggestion was to start up front, not in front.  I'll try to seed myself closer to the front, but not in with the people who will most definitely beat the ball.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Shaving 2:30 in 2 months? Rss Feed