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2015-12-29 7:23 AM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by triosaurus Merry Christmas to everyone ! I want to ask yet another question Preface -I am using an older trainer that has its own built-in 'computer' that displays current speed, current power, total time and distance. It is wired and old, so no ant+ etc. I have loaded Golden Cheetah onto my desktop, but am not using a speed sensor/usb tech to get the info into GC, yet... I have done the 2 tests ( 5min and 20min) and using the BT calculator I have a value for CP (it is not accurate, per se, but should be consistent using the trainer I have) My question is - Looking at the BTWCP workouts each day gives me the intervals with a percentage at which to work, but I must then write out the actual power levels I need for those intervals. Is there a spreadsheet or something that will auto calculate the actual values for the intervals using the CP level I input? Golden Cheetah seems to have a graph for the intervals, but I cannot change the CP value... AS well, GC shows only a graph, and not the written values for the power levels. I hope this makes sense - I would like the workout to say, for ex., 5 x 1 min @ xx watts ( xx being my CP adjusted by the spreadsheet rather than a % number as shown in the BTWCP) Thanks again for the thread, the program, and any assistance kelly
OK Kelly, take a look at the attached spreadsheet.  I had to modify what I had but this should be what you need.  I think all the workouts are 100%, its been awhile since I have used it.  The min power column is the target, the max you can ignore!  Let me know if you have any questions about it...

Oh, make sure you add you info to the Google spreadsheet I have linked in my very 1st post of this thread..



Edited by Donto 2015-12-29 7:25 AM




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BT Winter Cycling Plan Spreadsheet-R0-2015-12.xlsx (76KB - 20 downloads)


2015-12-29 10:28 AM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Phew, I completed a tough 5' power test this morning.  I woke up feeling ok but legs still felt tired.  Had my coffee, did some foam roller to stimulate the muscles and after some procrastination I finally got things going.  I paused the WO for 5 min during the 5 min steady period before the test interval to get 5' extra time in to spin the legs some more.  I found some fast rock jams to play for the test then started going again getting ready for the interval to start.  I really didn't think I was going to be able to hold what I did, 265W average, I was sucking some serious wind at the end!  Looks like a 9.5% increase over the 1st test.

I found a bug on the MaxTrainer program for ending a WO early that I need to report.  I had to import the file into Golden Cheetah to do the analysis, glad I never deleted the program from the pc.

Next up WO2 then the 20' test over the weekend, weather is suppose to cool off for the weekend so it will be good timing. The FL summer Winter is getting old!



Edited by Donto 2015-12-29 10:30 AM




(2015-12-29-5min-CP-test-265w.JPG)



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2015-12-29-5min-CP-test-265w.JPG (62KB - 17 downloads)
2015-12-29 12:53 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Great job on the 5' test Don!  265W is awesome, way to hold on.

Got WK5WO2 done.  Felt pretty good the whole way through although must admit my mind began to drift with the steady effort.  Here's what it looked like:





(WK5WO2.JPG)



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WK5WO2.JPG (41KB - 16 downloads)
2015-12-29 3:54 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Well, I got the 5 minute test done and definitely didn't leave any in the tank this time!

331W is my new 5min power record!

Lets hope I can hold over 85% of that for 20 minutes!

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2815066
2015-12-29 4:29 PM
in reply to: TTom

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by TTom

Great job on the 5' test Don!  265W is awesome, way to hold on.

Got WK5WO2 done.  Felt pretty good the whole way through although must admit my mind began to drift with the steady effort.  Here's what it looked like:




Nice work on that. Those are the rides that destroy me. I am so uncomfortable on a trainer and that is all I can think about on a long steady effort.
2015-12-29 5:07 PM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by Bradleykd
Originally posted by TTom

Great job on the 5' test Don!  265W is awesome, way to hold on.

Got WK5WO2 done.  Felt pretty good the whole way through although must admit my mind began to drift with the steady effort.  Here's what it looked like:

Nice work on that. Those are the rides that destroy me. I am so uncomfortable on a trainer and that is all I can think about on a long steady effort.
I crank the tunes and shift gears to change things up.  Have to break it down into smaller blocks like 10x2' or 5x4'.  Holding steady is tough.  There was a Kurt Kinetic Rock N Roll trainer on Craigslist at the beginning of the month for $300.  I should have pulled the trigger on it, but the wife would have buried me!



Edited by Donto 2015-12-29 5:07 PM


2015-12-29 5:09 PM
in reply to: Bradleykd

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by Bradleykd Well, I got the 5 minute test done and definitely didn't leave any in the tank this time! 331W is my new 5min power record! Lets hope I can hold over 85% of that for 20 minutes! https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2815066
Nice increase man!  85% or bust

2015-12-29 5:55 PM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Holy cow - that's a strong performance.  Way to go!

2015-12-29 7:26 PM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Thanks guys! I'm hoping if I do the 20 minute test on the weekend before I go do trail work it will feel a little easier than today's test I did after working 10 hours.

Don,

I have wished I would have sprung for the rock and roll trainer ever since my first winter on the road machine. I guess it is from being so rigidly in place, but after about 35 minutes my ass is killing me, my hands hurt and I can't get my feet comfortable, it's like they swell or something.

In the summer I do three or four hours in the saddle with no discomfort.
2015-12-29 8:39 PM
in reply to: Bradleykd

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by Bradleykd

Well, I got the 5 minute test done and definitely didn't leave any in the tank this time!

331W is my new 5min power record!

Lets hope I can hold over 85% of that for 20 minutes!

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2815066


Awesome job. That is a good test.
2015-12-30 3:04 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by triosaurus Merry Christmas to everyone ! I want to ask yet another question Preface -I am using an older trainer that has its own built-in 'computer' that displays current speed, current power, total time and distance. It is wired and old, so no ant+ etc. I have loaded Golden Cheetah onto my desktop, but am not using a speed sensor/usb tech to get the info into GC, yet... I have done the 2 tests ( 5min and 20min) and using the BT calculator I have a value for CP (it is not accurate, per se, but should be consistent using the trainer I have) My question is - Looking at the BTWCP workouts each day gives me the intervals with a percentage at which to work, but I must then write out the actual power levels I need for those intervals. Is there a spreadsheet or something that will auto calculate the actual values for the intervals using the CP level I input? Golden Cheetah seems to have a graph for the intervals, but I cannot change the CP value... AS well, GC shows only a graph, and not the written values for the power levels. I hope this makes sense - I would like the workout to say, for ex., 5 x 1 min @ xx watts ( xx being my CP adjusted by the spreadsheet rather than a % number as shown in the BTWCP) Thanks again for the thread, the program, and any assistance kelly
OK Kelly, take a look at the attached spreadsheet.  I had to modify what I had but this should be what you need.  I think all the workouts are 100%, its been awhile since I have used it.  The min power column is the target, the max you can ignore!  Let me know if you have any questions about it...

Oh, make sure you add you info to the Google spreadsheet I have linked in my very 1st post of this thread..




Don,

Many thanks!! That is exactly what I had been hoping to find It eliminates having to write out each workout, which is not that much of a chore, but a PITA nonetheless
I also got the experience of hunting down a new spreadsheet program, as the ol' Win xp I am using came with microsoft works... which did not, in fact work, for this file
I downloaded and installed open office.

I am hesitant to add my numbers to the group spreadsheet, as the watts given by my trainer power curve are, ahem, slightly inflated

Anyways, I am 79 +/- kilograms, 5 min test was 414 w , and the 20' test was 315 w

If it makes any difference, 52 yr-old male, have mostly always been active, sort of a runner in high-school/university (400m-800m +) ran a couple of sub-40 10kms waaay back in the 80's, then a couple decades of on-off running, skating, cycling... A few years ago, I decided I wanted to do a tri, so started swimming 2 times a week etc, did a mini tri (400 - 20k - 5k) in 2011 and loved it, then did an olympic this past September after training for about a year.

I want to complete at least one half-distance event this coming year, along with some sprints and olympics.
I will get back to a less-pudgy 155-160 pounds by summer I feel odd stating that, because this is the first time in my life I have ever been 'overweight' ...

kelly







2015-12-30 3:11 AM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Completed wk 4 wo3, adding 10' min to the MS 10', for a total of 60 minutes.

Edit - I guess it is technically wk2 wo 3 on the spreadsheet, but in the main BTCP it is called wk4 with the first 2 weeks of prep

I have no graph to share, but was able to maintain the levels .

How difficult ought the 10 x 30" feel? The recovery 30" seemed to fly by, but the work intervals did not feel all that hard... Should they feel 'hard' as in light-headed, nearly toss my cookies 'hard'. Should I bump up the difficulty level?

Thanks everyone!



Edited by triosaurus 2015-12-30 3:21 AM
2015-12-30 9:32 AM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by triosaurus Completed wk 4 wo3, adding 10' min to the MS 10', for a total of 60 minutes. Edit - I guess it is technically wk2 wo 3 on the spreadsheet, but in the main BTCP it is called wk4 with the first 2 weeks of prep I have no graph to share, but was able to maintain the levels . How difficult ought the 10 x 30" feel? The recovery 30" seemed to fly by, but the work intervals did not feel all that hard... Should they feel 'hard' as in light-headed, nearly toss my cookies 'hard'. Should I bump up the difficulty level? Thanks everyone!
Kelly, the 30" intervals and the workout in general are not considered a hard workout. The first couple of weeks are builds as in the 2nd & 3rd phases the workouts do get tougher.  The TSS (Training Stress Score) for this interval WO is only 48 or so, adding 10 min like you did will be maybe another 8-10 points.  If you're not familiar with the term, think of TSS as a scale for measuring a workouts impact on the body, A TSS of 100 for a bike is basically the equivalent of doing a 1 hour time trial (and you fall over after!).  The 110-115% of CP is basically what you ended up with for the 20' test.  Feel free to paly with the intensities as everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.  Maybe do 1st two at 110% and every 2 thereafter at +2% to build the workouts.  Or do all at 115% or at 120%, or add a few more intervals to it, nothing is concrete about the plan other than trying to meet the min targets.

2015-12-30 9:36 AM
in reply to: Bradleykd

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by Bradleykd Thanks guys! I'm hoping if I do the 20 minute test on the weekend before I go do trail work it will feel a little easier than today's test I did after working 10 hours. Don, I have wished I would have sprung for the rock and roll trainer ever since my first winter on the road machine. I guess it is from being so rigidly in place, but after about 35 minutes my is killing me, my hands hurt and I can't get my feet comfortable, it's like they swell or something. In the summer I do three or four hours in the saddle with no discomfort.
Yeah I move around a lot too. I've angled the seat of my nose down and raised the bars up 10mm.

I found another RnR on Craigslist 2 hour drive away, an improved 2.0 version for $350, hmmm!  

2015-12-30 10:42 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by Bradleykd Thanks guys! I'm hoping if I do the 20 minute test on the weekend before I go do trail work it will feel a little easier than today's test I did after working 10 hours. Don, I have wished I would have sprung for the rock and roll trainer ever since my first winter on the road machine. I guess it is from being so rigidly in place, but after about 35 minutes my is killing me, my hands hurt and I can't get my feet comfortable, it's like they swell or something. In the summer I do three or four hours in the saddle with no discomfort.
Yeah I move around a lot too. I've angled the seat of my nose down and raised the bars up 10mm.

I found another RnR on Craigslist 2 hour drive away, an improved 2.0 version for $350, hmmm!  




Is anyone doing the Challenge currently riding an RnR? I use a KK Road Machine, which has served me quite well for the past 5 years but recently have been thinking about switching to the RnR. I do not have a real reason to make the change but have been interested in possibly making the switch. So is the RnR worth the upgrade?
2015-12-30 5:02 PM
in reply to: 5stones

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by 5stones
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by Bradleykd Thanks guys! I'm hoping if I do the 20 minute test on the weekend before I go do trail work it will feel a little easier than today's test I did after working 10 hours. Don, I have wished I would have sprung for the rock and roll trainer ever since my first winter on the road machine. I guess it is from being so rigidly in place, but after about 35 minutes my is killing me, my hands hurt and I can't get my feet comfortable, it's like they swell or something. In the summer I do three or four hours in the saddle with no discomfort.
Yeah I move around a lot too. I've angled the seat of my nose down and raised the bars up 10mm.

I found another RnR on Craigslist 2 hour drive away, an improved 2.0 version for $350, hmmm!  

Is anyone doing the Challenge currently riding an RnR? I use a KK Road Machine, which has served me quite well for the past 5 years but recently have been thinking about switching to the RnR. I do not have a real reason to make the change but have been interested in possibly making the switch. So is the RnR worth the upgrade?
I don't think so.

I checked out out the threads on ST about it vs RM in the past, I would only go with the newer 2.0 frame and not the older frame due to the improvements made for the bobbing and size.:

At least two guys seem to like theirs here.

ST review article here

Looks like you can buy a frame only for around $350 on ebay.



2015-12-30 5:27 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by 5stones
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by Bradleykd Thanks guys! I'm hoping if I do the 20 minute test on the weekend before I go do trail work it will feel a little easier than today's test I did after working 10 hours. Don, I have wished I would have sprung for the rock and roll trainer ever since my first winter on the road machine. I guess it is from being so rigidly in place, but after about 35 minutes my is killing me, my hands hurt and I can't get my feet comfortable, it's like they swell or something. In the summer I do three or four hours in the saddle with no discomfort.
Yeah I move around a lot too. I've angled the seat of my nose down and raised the bars up 10mm.

I found another RnR on Craigslist 2 hour drive away, an improved 2.0 version for $350, hmmm!  

Is anyone doing the Challenge currently riding an RnR? I use a KK Road Machine, which has served me quite well for the past 5 years but recently have been thinking about switching to the RnR. I do not have a real reason to make the change but have been interested in possibly making the switch. So is the RnR worth the upgrade?
I don't think so.

I checked out out the threads on ST about it vs RM in the past, I would only go with the newer 2.0 frame and not the older frame due to the improvements made for the bobbing and size.:

At least two guys seem to like theirs here.

ST review article here

Looks like you can buy a frame only for around $350 on ebay.




I wouldn't upgrade just because of the size of the thing. It's HUGE. I do wish I had it though! lol
2015-12-30 9:35 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by triosaurus Completed wk 4 wo3, adding 10' min to the MS 10', for a total of 60 minutes. Edit - I guess it is technically wk2 wo 3 on the spreadsheet, but in the main BTCP it is called wk4 with the first 2 weeks of prep I have no graph to share, but was able to maintain the levels . How difficult ought the 10 x 30" feel? The recovery 30" seemed to fly by, but the work intervals did not feel all that hard... Should they feel 'hard' as in light-headed, nearly toss my cookies 'hard'. Should I bump up the difficulty level? Thanks everyone!
Kelly, the 30" intervals and the workout in general are not considered a hard workout. The first couple of weeks are builds as in the 2nd & 3rd phases the workouts do get tougher.  The TSS (Training Stress Score) for this interval WO is only 48 or so, adding 10 min like you did will be maybe another 8-10 points.  If you're not familiar with the term, think of TSS as a scale for measuring a workouts impact on the body, A TSS of 100 for a bike is basically the equivalent of doing a 1 hour time trial (and you fall over after!).  The 110-115% of CP is basically what you ended up with for the 20' test.  Feel free to paly with the intensities as everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.  Maybe do 1st two at 110% and every 2 thereafter at +2% to build the workouts.  Or do all at 115% or at 120%, or add a few more intervals to it, nothing is concrete about the plan other than trying to meet the min targets.




Don
Thanks for the info. Sounds like I am hitting the workouts as they are meant to be done. I was just concerned that maybe I might have been slacking...
So far, I am enjoying the program... I hope that does not change as the sessions get harder.

2015-12-31 1:19 PM
in reply to: Donto


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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Yes, pain is the word. Although I've been slacking on the bike, best excuse here is due to my run training schedule, I managed to eek out a little gain for wk5 wo1.



(Dec31.jpg)



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2015-12-31 3:00 PM
in reply to: Budwiiser

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Originally posted by Budwiiser Yes, pain is the word. Although I've been slacking on the bike, best excuse here is due to my run training schedule, I managed to eek out a little gain for wk5 wo1.
Good job!

2015-12-31 4:51 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Sorry guys. Dropped off. Wife got sick and was in the hospital for a week. She's home now, but still not up to par so between work, taking care of toddlers and her I have not been able to get any bike training in.


2016-01-01 9:17 AM
in reply to: johnthecat


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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016
Originally posted by johnthecat

Sorry guys. Dropped off. Wife got sick and was in the hospital for a week. She's home now, but still not up to par so between work, taking care of toddlers and her I have not been able to get any bike training in.


Hate to hear that, hang in there.... Hope yall shake it soon!
2016-01-01 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

You've got your priorities right - family first.  The workouts will be there waiting for you when your life settles down.  Take care.

2016-01-01 2:25 PM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Another 20'FTP test not going as planned.  This time, was operator error, not mechanical error.

We've got a dog that is terrified of fireworks, so every 4th of July and New Years Eve we take a mini vacation someplace where they do not have fireworks.  I was supposed to do the test yesterday, but we were away so figured I'd just do it when we got home.  I discovered that riding for 3 hours in a car then getting on the bike for an FTP test is a bad combination.  I thought the legs would get less heavy once they were warmed up, but didn't turn out to be the case.  Then, to top it off, I targeted a 6% increase hoping that I'd be able to hold on and squeak it out, but realizing something in the 4-5% would be the more likely outcome.  Got on the bike and started the workout (Sufferfest Rubber Glove version) and 2 minutes in noticed the workout was set at 100%, not 106%.   So reset and restarted, not realizing that the 100% automatically had factored in an increase, so I was ending up with about a 10% increase.  10 minutes in I could see the combination of the two factors was untenable so bailed on the test, knowing that it means I have to do it again.  Poop.

What is the right way to handle a test when it is clear you've gone out too hard and are going to have to end up well below target.  Bail and retest or just hang on and live with the new number whatever it is.  My thinking is that this test is supposed to represent your ability to hang on at a given power for an hour so best to bail and rest.  Thoughts?

2016-01-01 5:20 PM
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Subject: RE: BT Winter Cycling Program Challenge 2015 - 2016

Oops.  Last line should read "bail and retest", not rest.  Subconscious slip perhaps

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